Thread: Asbestos fiber cement siding?

Found this siding on a 1900 house. No date of install could be located. Wondering how do others tell a client that the house MAY have asbestos in the siding?

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This does not look like the asbestos siding I am familiar with.
The only way to be sure is to have a sample tested in a lab.
For a 1900 house I think a general warning for the presence of asbestos and lead paint in just about everything is appropriate.

Originally Posted by John Kogel

This does not look like the asbestos siding I am familiar with.
The only way to be sure is to have a sample tested in a lab.
For a 1900 house I think a general warning for the presence of asbestos and lead paint in just about everything is appropriate.

Also, even nowadays I believe most paints have lead which can't be avoided.

Lead has been removed from todays paint formulas, has been for sometime.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Lead has been removed from todays paint formulas, has been for sometime.

State side, lead disappeared by 1978. Asbestos was pretty much gone by 1983.

Originally Posted by Jim Lowinske

Found this siding on a 1900 house. No date of install could be located. Wondering how do others tell a client that the house MAY have asbestos in the siding?

Jim, There appears to be a J channel on the side of the window and possible felt paper behind a siding joint. I wouldn't expect that these two details would be present with asbestos siding.

If you suspect asbestos then just say so. When you are not able to provide an answer to a condition then you raise a question and direct the client to pursue for further evaluation.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Jim Lowinske

Found this siding on a 1900 house. No date of install could be located. Wondering how do others tell a client that the house MAY have asbestos in the siding?

Jim, There appears to be a J channel on the side of the window and possible felt paper behind a siding joint. I wouldn't expect that these two details would be present with asbestos siding.

If you suspect asbestos then just say so. When you are not able to provide an answer to a condition then you raise a question and direct the client to pursue for further evaluation.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Lead has been removed from todays paint formulas, has been for sometime.

Paint made on that other continent and shipped to stores here could contain just about anything toxic including lead.
Remember the lead paint on kid's toys a few years ago?
Just a paranoid thought. I don't know this for sure. Somebody could research it, eh?

Originally Posted by John Kogel

Paint made on that other continent and shipped to stores here could contain just about anything toxic including lead.
Remember the lead paint on kid's toys a few years ago?

- - - Updated - - -

Paint made on that other continent and shipped to stores here could contain just about anything toxic including lead.
Remember the lead paint on kid's toys a few years ago?
Just a paranoid thought. I don't know this for sure. Somebody could research it, eh?

Lead can still bel used in some commercial paints for large ocean going ships, oil rigs, paint for bridges, and similar structures.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by John Kogel

Paint made on that other continent and shipped to stores here could contain just about anything toxic including lead.
Remember the lead paint on kid's toys a few years ago?

- - - Updated - - -

Paint made on that other continent and shipped to stores here could contain just about anything toxic including lead.
Remember the lead paint on kid's toys a few years ago?
Just a paranoid thought. I don't know this for sure. Somebody could research it, eh?

Lead can still be used in some commercial paints for large ocean going ships, oil rigs, paint for bridges, and similar structures.

Back to Asbestos. It does appear to me that the siding is a type of cement board siding that did contain asbestos from the 40's and 50's. I have a class I teach in lead and asbestos. Many think it is banned, It is not. Here is part of what is in my class.

I thought there was a ban?
There was in 1989, but it was challenged in court.
In Oct 1991 the ban was upheld ONLY for;
Flooring felt and ‘new uses’ after Aug 1990
Commercial paper, corrugated paper, rollboard, specialty paper after Aug 1996
Certain Spray applied decorative uses. Note, NOT ALL.
Nothing else is banned!

Where can I find asbestos?
Oh, just in about an estimated 3,600 materials.

Cement Pipes HVAC Duct Insulation
Asphalt Floor Tile Ductwork Flexible Fabric
Cooling Towers Heating and Electrical Ducts
Decorative Plaster Textured Paints/Coatings
Chalkboards Taping Compounds (thermal)
Base Flashing High Temperature Gaskets
Laboratory Hoods/ Table Tops
Fire Curtains Elevator Brake Shoes
Cement Siding Wallboard
Vinyl Wall Coverings Spackling Compounds
Cement Wallboard Boiler Insulation
Vinyl Floor Tile Flooring Backing
Acoustical Plaster Electrical Panel Partitions
Ceiling Tiles and Lay‐in Panels
Spray‐Applied Insulation Roofing Shingles
Roofing Felt Fire Doors
Caulking/Putties Laboratory Gloves
Joint Compounds Elevator Equipment Panels
Breeching Insulation
Vinyl Sheet Flooring Connections
Construction Mastics (floor tile)
Pipe Insulation Carpet
Block Electrical Cloth
Electrical Wiring Insulation
Blow‐in Insulation Fireproofing materials
Adhesives Fire Blankets

In my view there is nothing inherently wrong with Asbestos siding, so long as its not cut or sanded, thats when the concerns arise.

Here's my standard comment.
Based on the appearance of the siding and the age of this structure, the exterior siding material may contain asbestos. This is typically not a concern unless the siding is going to disturbed through remodeling or removed. The client(s) should be aware of this when considering repairs or replacement of this siding.

Jeff,

What are the guidelines when abatement is required? I was just in an old house where the new ducts had been connected to the older asbestos insulated ducts. A contractor there, said that you can't do that and the asbestos on the old ducts has to be abated. That was new to me.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Lead can still bel used in some commercial paints for large ocean going ships, oil rigs, paint for bridges, and similar structures.

A few years ago, the news reported on testing public playground equipment that was positive for lead based paint.
The city paid for removal. When they tested again (probably for dramatic effect for TV) the new paint contained lead. Of course the media ate it up! Removal and painting was repeated but they chose the paint a little more carefully!

So yes, lead based paint is still around.

Originally Posted by Lon Henderson

Jeff,

What are the guidelines when abatement is required? I was just in an old house where the new ducts had been connected to the older asbestos insulated ducts. A contractor there, said that you can't do that and the asbestos on the old ducts has to be abated. That was new to me.

Lon, it varies by type and location. Not really an easy answer. Some States have their own protocol. The Federal Government exempts single family residences. Short of boring everyone to death I will post some things that may help you or anyone wanting to know more:

What is friable asbestos-containing material?
Friable ACM is any material containing more than one percent asbestos (as determined by Polarized Light Microscopy) that, when dry, may be crumbled, pulverized, or reduced to powder by hand pressure.

What is non-friable ACM?
Non-friable ACM is any material containing more than one percent asbestos (as determined by Polarized Light Microscopy) that, when dry, cannot be crumbled, pulverized, or reduced to powder by hand pressure. Under the Asbestos NESHAP, non-friable ACM is divided into two categories. Category I non-friable ACM are asbestos-containing resilient floor coverings (commonly known as vinyl asbestos tile (VAT)), asphalt roofing products, packing and gaskets. These materials rarely become friable. All other non-friable ACM are considered category II non-friable ACM.

How much asbestos must be present before the Asbestos NESHAP work practice standards apply to renovation projects?

Asbestos NESHAP regulations must be followed for all renovations of facilities with at least 80 linear meters (260 linear feet) of regulated asbestos-containing materials (RACM) on pipes, or 15 square meters (160 square feet) of regulated asbestos-containing materials on other facility components, or at least one cubic meter (35 cubic feet) off facility components where the amount of RACM previously removed from pipes and other facility components could not be measured before stripping. These amounts are known as the "threshold" amounts.
NESHAP is the National Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants

Asbestos-containing materials that aren’t damaged or disturbed are not likely to pose a health risk. Usually the best thing is to leave asbestos-containing material alone if it is in good condition.
Generally, asbestos-containing material that is in good condition and will not be disturbed (by remodeling, for example) will not release asbestos fibers.
Asbestos-containing materials may release fibers when they are disturbed, damaged, removed improperly, repaired, cut, torn, sanded, sawed, drilled or scraped. Keep an eye on asbestos-containing materials and visually check them over time for signs of wear or damage.

Renovation and Demolition Requirements
The National Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants, (NESHAP), regulations under the Clean Air Act specify work practices for asbestos to be followed during demolitions and renovations of all structures, installations, and buildings (excluding residential buildings that have four or fewer dwelling units). The regulations require the owner of the building or the operator to notify the appropriate state agency before any demolition, or before any renovations of buildings that could contain a certain threshold amount of asbestos or asbestos-containing material. In addition, particular manufacturing and fabricating operations either cannot emit visible emissions into the outside air or must follow air cleaning procedures, as well as follow certain requirements when removing asbestos-containing waste.

The Asbestos Hazard Emergency Response Act, (AHERA)’s Model Accreditation Plan, (MAP),requires that asbestos professionals (including any worker, contractor or supervisor, inspector, management planner, or project designer) working with asbestos-containing building materials in a school, public or commercial building be accredited under a training program at least as stringent as the EPA Model Accreditation Plan (MAP).
In addition, state and local agencies may have more stringent standards than those required by the federal government.

Federal law does not require persons who inspect, repair or remove asbestos-containing materials in detached single-family homes to be trained and accredited; however, some states and localities do require this. For safety, homeowners should ensure that workers they hire to handle asbestos are trained and accredited.

The Asbestos Hazard Emergency Response Act of 1986 (AHERA) required that the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) develop an accreditation program for laboratories conducting analysis of air and bulk material samples for asbestos. NIST maintains a listing of accredited asbestos laboratories under the National Voluntary Laboratory Accreditation Program (NVLAP). For more information, contact NIST at (301) 975-4016.

NVLAP Accredited laboratories for the Polarized Light Microscopy (PLM) Test Method. This is a bulk test method for testing materials for asbestos content.
NVLAP Accredited laboratories for the Transmission Electron Microscopy (TEM) Test Method. This is an air test method for determining the presence and amount of asbestos in air samples.

Wow!
Thanks, for the info.

Lon,

The short answer was that a single family home has no requirement, unless your State says otherwise.