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  1. #1
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    Default Smoke Alarm vs. Alarm System

    I recently had a disagreement with a property owner over missing Smoke Alarms. He claimed his monitored alarm system superseded the need for smoke alarms in each bedroom etc. I was always under the impression that monitored alarms systems such as ADT only worked as long as you were a subscriber. Once you stopped paying the system was no longer functional and for that reason there was the need for independent smoke alarms. The IRC is kinda fuzzy on this using terms like monitored, approved supervisor station and independently owned. ircsmokealarms.JPG

    Any one able to clarify this?

    Thanks
    //Rick

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    Rick Bunzel
    WWW.PacCrestInspections.com
    360-588-6956

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Smoke Alarm vs. Alarm System

    Rick,

    It's in R314.7 and 314.7.1 ... it's the word "and":

    R314.7 Fire alarm systems.

    Fire alarm systems shall be permitted to be used in lieu of smoke alarms and shall comply with Sections R314.7.1 through R314.7.4.

    R314.7.1 General.

    Fire alarm systems shall comply with the provisions of this code and the household fire warning equipment provisions of NFPA 72. Smoke detectors shall be listed in accordance with UL 268.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Smoke Alarm vs. Alarm System

    To clarify my previous post:

    The system (stand alone residential smoke alarms are systems) is required to meet the IRC.

    AND... may also be monitored by a service.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Smoke Alarm vs. Alarm System

    Also keep in mind that R314.7.1 does not require a fully compliant NFPA 72 system, only "the household fire warning equipment provisions of NFPA 72" apply along with the IRC requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    R314.7.1 General.

    Fire alarm systems shall comply with the provisions of this code and the household fire warning equipment provisions of NFPA 72 ...


    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Smoke Alarm vs. Alarm System

    Thanks - glad you clarified with the 2nd post.

    //Rick

    Rick Bunzel
    WWW.PacCrestInspections.com
    360-588-6956

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Smoke Alarm vs. Alarm System

    Tying the term "fire alarm system" to the IRC and "smoke alarms":

    IRC
    R314.7 Fire alarm systems.
    R314.7.2 Location
    - Smoke detectors shall be installed in the locations specified in Section R314.3


    Section R314
    - Smoke Alarms
    - - R314.3 Location.
    - - - Smoke alarms shal be installed in the following locations:
    - - - - (then gives locations)

    IRC
    - R201.3 Terms defined in other codes.
    - - Where terms are not defined in this code such terms shall have the meanings ascribed in other code publications of the International Code Council.


    IBC
    - [F]FIRE ALARM SYSTEM. A system or portion of a combination system consisting of components and circuits arranged to monitor and annunciate the status of fire alarm or supervisory signal-initiating devices and to initiate the appropriate response to those signals.

    IRC
    - [RB]SINGLE STATION SMOKE ALARM. An assembly incorporating the detector, control equipment and alarm sounding device in one unit that is operated from a power supply either in the unit or obtained at the point of installation.


    - [RB]MULTIPLE STATION SMOKE ALARM. Two or more single-station alarm devices that are capable of interconnection such that actuation of one causes all integral or separate audible alarms to operate.

    IBC
    = [F]SMOKE ALARM. A single- or multiple-station alarm responsive to smoke. See ?Multiple-station smoke alarm? and ?Single-station smoke alarm.?


    = [F]SINGLE-STATION SMOKE ALARM. An assembly incorporating the detector, the control equipment and the alarm-sounding device in one unit, operated from a power supply either in the unit or obtained at the point of installation.


    - [F]MULTIPLE-STATION ALARM DEVICE. Two or more single-station alarm devices that are capable of interconnection such that actuation of one causes the appropriate alarm signal to operate in all interconnected alarms.


    IFC
    - [F]FIRE ALARM SYSTEM. A system or portion of a combination system consisting of components and circuits arranged to monitor and annunciate the status of fire alarm or supervisory signal-initiating devices and to initiate the appropriate response to those signals.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    New Jersey
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    Default Re: Smoke Alarm vs. Alarm System

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Bunzel View Post
    I recently had a disagreement with a property owner over missing Smoke Alarms. He claimed his monitored alarm system superseded the need for smoke alarms in each bedroom etc. I was always under the impression that monitored alarms systems such as ADT only worked as long as you were a subscriber. Once you stopped paying the system was no longer functional and for that reason there was the need for independent smoke alarms. The IRC is kinda fuzzy on this using terms like monitored, approved supervisor station and independently owned. ircsmokealarms.JPG

    Any one able to clarify this?

    Thanks
    //Rick
    Hey bro, my understanding of these systems is that when they subscribe they are monitored and the F. D. Or P.D. Is called by the home monitoring systems. However, if you are not subscribed I believe they will still act as an independent alarm system. In another words they don?t shut down there would still be some type of audible alarm. It just wouldn?t be monitored or dispatched to 9-1-1. Not totally positive though.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Smoke Alarm vs. Alarm System

    My understanding is that if you have an ADT or Xfinity or Vivint system and cancel the monthly subscription, they are deactivated. I know the doors will beep etc. but have no idea what alerts you actually do.

    think about it... ADT or Brinks installs the alarm system. At the end of the sweetheart deal period, what is your incentive to renew? Nada - as long as the alarm goes for a breakin owner is satisfied and will save the $30 a month.

    I have never had a monitored system so I can't say 100%. Maybe someone who worked for these companies can comment.

    //Rick

    Rick Bunzel
    WWW.PacCrestInspections.com
    360-588-6956

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Smoke Alarm vs. Alarm System

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Bunzel View Post
    My understanding is that if you have an ADT or Xfinity or Vivint system and cancel the monthly subscription, they are deactivated. I know the doors will beep etc. but have no idea what alerts you actually do.

    think about it... ADT or Brinks installs the alarm system. At the end of the sweetheart deal period, what is your incentive to renew? Nada - as long as the alarm goes for a breakin owner is satisfied and will save the $30 a month.

    I have never had a monitored system so I can't say 100%. Maybe someone who worked for these companies can comment.

    //Rick
    We have a monitored system, not ADT or the others you mentioned, and there is no monitoring contract, we can stop the monitoring at anytime (in fact, we did not have the monitoring at first, then added monitoring) - the systems works as a stand-alone system without monitoring.

    All monitoring does (for our system) is to first notify us for a break-in alarm, if we are there or acknowledge that we know why the alarm went off and are okay, we give a code and it they ignore the signal ... otherwise they notify the police department, which sends an officer or two to the house.

    Our smoke alarms are not monitored, so the discussion about that aspect does not apply, but the residential system (fire alarm/smoke alarm system) is required to meet the code ... work if not monitored ... monitoring would allow the monitoring company to notify/verify with the owner/occupant, then send the alarm on to the fire department as needed, if needed.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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