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  1. #1
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    Default mold in new construction

    Several times in this past year I have found mold on lumber in new construction. Sometimes its under stairs and sometimes its on attic trusses.

    I'm pretty sure it was on the wood when the house was built and not an effect of a house moisture problem. The wood got wet during storage and the stacking of it made a good environment for the mold to grow.

    I report the presence each time and give my opinion on how it got there. How often do you find this and how do you handle it? What do you say in your report about it?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    JD: I do not address the (non-)issue unless the client specifically bring it up. Then I provide them with these links:

    Mold, Moisture & Lumber | Southern Pine Council™ | 1-504-443-4464

    Mold and Lumber

    Helping Your Buyers Understand Mold During the Building Process


  3. #3
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    How do you know its mould? Many species of wood will exhibit staining and discolouration.

    Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
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    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    How do you know its mould? Many species of wood will exhibit staining and discolouration.
    Well, I don't know for sure. In fact, I dont call it mold in the report. I call it a possible biological growth. I did not intend to mis lead you by calling it mold in this post.

    Having said that, I look very closely and most of the time I can tell a fungi/mold substance when I see one.

    Heres are actual pictures of one instance. What do you think it looks like?

    .

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Hey John Its good to note this issue. Form what i could see in the photos its from the lumber stack... but you need to note any moisture condition the the home/sub-structure soil conditions, ventilation along with any heat from a dryer vent.

    These can be the condition of a big problem down the road if this infection takes off and it can do that in less then a year in your area of the pacific northwest. Ive been adding sub-area odors with moist soil condition to my reports.

    Its one thing to call it a mold but if its a (WDO Fungus infection ) then that needs to be treated with timbor. or its going to turn into a fungus damage condition. You may want to advise for a pest inspection.

    I do the pest inspection at the same time I'm doing the home inspection.

    Best

    Ron


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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post
    Well, I don't know for sure. In fact, I dont call it mold in the report. I call it a possible biological growth. I did not intend to mis lead you by calling it mold in this post.

    Having said that, I look very closely and most of the time I can tell a fungi/mold substance when I see one.

    Heres are actual pictures of one instance. What do you think it looks like?

    .
    That is mould and I would call it as such. That is not mould from a lumber yard or from it getting wet before it was put up, although that could help with the growth. With it being in an attic like that I would be looking for a cause, could be poor vent, insulation issue, a bathroom vent etc. The OSB will be the last to show due to the way it is made and protected with its polymers.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    John,

    It looks like mould to me, and not natural staining or discolouration.

    Raymond Wand Home Inspection Service
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    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post

    , I dont call it mold in the report. I call it a possible biological growth.

    .
    .
    Microbial Growth.
    .

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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    That is not mould from a lumber yard or from it getting wet before it was put up, although that could help with the growth. With it being in an attic like that I would be looking for a cause, could be poor vent, insulation issue, a bathroom vent etc. The OSB will be the last to show due to the way it is made and protected with its polymers.
    That's the opposite from what I've seen when there are ventilation and moisture issues. I typically see corrosion/ stains around fasteners and stains/ mold on the sheathing often with nothing showing on framing. Must be a regional thing?


  10. #10
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    If in doubt, try scraping some off with your finger or a screwdriver. If it is 3 dimensional = green fuzz, in my book it appears to be mould/mold or mould-like if I'm playing it safe.

    If it scrapes off, it's active. I wouldn't need to scrape what you got there.

    That's similar to the stuff that grows on oranges, isn't it?

    If that's a new building, it was built in the rain.

    I don't try to be specific of its origin in the report, too easy to be wrong.

    Last edited by John Kogel; 12-01-2009 at 09:35 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Without going into extensive descriptions of why I believe this, I'm pretty sure it was on certain pieces of trusses when the house was built. It was brought up there with the wood. I don't think it developed there as a result of a moisture problem in the attic.

    The attic had full length ridge and soffit venting. This was a brand new home that was not even occupied yet.

    Being there and seeing the big picture makes it easier to judge.


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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .Microbial Growth. .
    Nope. Mycological growth.

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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    Microbial Growth.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Nope. Mycological growth.
    .

    Only if You want to Limit the Possibilities to Mushrooms and Fungi.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .

    Only if You want to Limit the Possibilities to Mushrooms and Fungi.
    .
    I will see your Mushrooms and rase you a Fungi call

    Best

    Ron


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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    I suppose practicing defensive report writing is in order here. But it certainly looks like a truss that laid out for a while. If a moisture meter didn't show any significant readings, the attic was otherwise well ventilated and dry, don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. OK, the joke would be mold hill.
    It takes bulk water created by any number of methods to create a mold issue. That can be a leak via roof or plumbing, or significant condensation issues. Mold just simply can't subsist without water and it won't be an issue beyond a slight visual umpleasantness. But hey, cover thy butt.

    JLMathis


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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    John,

    Simply report what you see. Mold may not be a hot button for you but it could be for your client. Plus, the issue may come up again when the client sells the home down the road. At least give the client an opportunity to approach it as they'd like. According to the IAQA mold should be reported as "fungi" rather than "mold."

    I've seen plenty of "mold" in new construction and report on it each time. Some clients accept it and others are adamant about its removal. Perhaps if the media had taken a more sensible approach to the topic our lives would be a little easier.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  17. #17
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Barker View Post
    Perhaps if the media had taken a more sensible approach to the topic our lives would be a little easier.


    I think I'll get that on a rubber stamp.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Maybe just mildew, unless it is tested by a lab you simply can not tell. Not enough to worry about, most likely just came from sitting outside in the rain for a short time, remember mold and fungi thrive outside. It takes a very little time for that substance to attach itself to wood. In the attic with the ventilation you speak of it will not survive. The problem with scraping it off is that if it is indeed living fungi you have just let it loose into the air. There are plenty over the counter cleaning agents that will simply clean this tiny amount off the wood without spreading it into the surrounding area.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    I see the same thing majority of the time. I have the client with me with the builder and ask what will they do about the mold. Take pictures of the area with the mold document it. Before drywall is installed we encourage the client has a chance to go back to see that it has been cleaned. I also explain to the client that it was probably how the lumber was stored and it got wet. I typically see it in the basement area.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    It looks to me that this is an active mold colony, although, without having seen it for myself, I couldn't say for sure. Since it is new construction, the moisture content in the wood will be high and the mold could survive on that for a short time as the wood releases the moisture. I would explain that to the client but definately report it. I dont believe it to be a big deal and think you hit the nail on the head since it was probably there from the wood setting outside getting wet.

    good luck


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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Why don't we call a spade a spade? If it looks like mold call it mold and recommend it be remediated. Where does it call for inspectors to give their opinion as to the severity of the issue; we are to report what we see and recommend that it be repaired. Just like a leak under the sink do you say its a small leak might not cause any problems might not need to be fixed. Sounds like the Realtor has control of some of you, who do you work for? A builder who dos not clean off mold caused from wood sitting on the gound before using it needs his head examined. Buyers are educated today and mold is an "huge" emotional issue I have clients who asked for drywall to be removed to make sure there was no mold behind them due to just these same issues. Wouldn't you be sceptical if as a buyer you saw these photos?


  22. #22
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    Angry Re: mold in new construction

    Because inspectors who are not trained and certified in mold sampling or determining if it is in fact mold are no better than the ones who call out every thing as a code violation who are not certified as a code inspector.
    Not all mold is bad, it is the fungi that causes the damage. All mold have fungi but not all fungi
    is mold. The only way to be sure of what you are dealing with is to take samples and send them to certified third party lab. Why do you want to terrorize your customers for no reason. In fact there are no houses in the entire world that does not contain some type of mold.It is everywhere.

    Last edited by Cobra Cook; 12-09-2009 at 10:14 PM.

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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Never thaught that telling the client what you saw was terrorizing them; they are paying to get the straight scoop if you don't tell the truth you will end up in court. Better be informed or certified to determin if mold issues you see are serious or just the mildew vriety otherwise you need to get an other job - still don't make a judgment call in behalf of your client let them be part of the process. Mold testing is recommended when it is outside the scope of your comfort zone. Best to error on the side of what is in the best interest of your client - from the photos originally presented this mold appears active report it as such and recommend it be taken care of. If you see mold you have mold it is that simple the labs make a fortune telling you what you allready know!


  24. #24
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    Smile Re: mold in new construction


    The problem with your theory is just suppose you tell your client that what appears to be mold turns out not to be but is simply mildew. You can just as easily be sued for making out a false legal document and they can demand the cost of another company to come for no reason that was totally based on your unprofessional statement. On another post i read " that the attic insulation was “vermiculite" another form of asbestos, I asked how he knew it was and i was told it looked like it.
    I am certified in mold sampling and removal, I got certified last year due to the fact that on several inspections i observed what looked like mold and took pictures to show my client, I never told them it was mold but merely told them it looked like mold. Since being certified, on the inspections I have done later i have been able to see what appears to be mold in a better light and where to look for it. I do not charge for the mold inspection while I am doing a home inspection, I do it to help my clients become aware and with ways to eradicate the substance themselves with over the counter materials. If it is a larger area I offer my services to take samples before i do any thing to disturb what looks like mold. If you make the wrong call on it, it will cost u big bucks and that is why a lot of states are now requiring a certification to deal with it


  25. #25
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    I'd call it mold and suggest further review by a mold specialist.

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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Looked like mold to me - mildew grows in the shower and on vinyl siding (no cellulos) wood is cellulose and what you might consider mildew can eat the stuff up in no time. Seen floor joist you could stick your screwdriver thru in a 12 month old home. You can say it looks like mold if you wish but you better recommend remediation - watch how you say things it can get you in trouble.


  27. #27
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra Cook View Post
    The problem with your theory is just suppose you tell your client that what appears to be mold turns out not to be but is simply mildew. You can just as easily be sued for making out a false legal document and they can demand the cost of another company to come for no reason that was totally based on your unprofessional statement. On another post i read " that the attic insulation was “vermiculite" another form of asbestos, I asked how he knew it was and i was told it looked like it.
    I am certified in mold sampling and removal, I got certified last year due to the fact that on several inspections i observed what looked like mold and took pictures to show my client, I never told them it was mold but merely told them it looked like mold. Since being certified, on the inspections I have done later i have been able to see what appears to be mold in a better light and where to look for it. I do not charge for the mold inspection while I am doing a home inspection, I do it to help my clients become aware and with ways to eradicate the substance themselves with over the counter materials. If it is a larger area I offer my services to take samples before i do any thing to disturb what looks like mold. If you make the wrong call on it, it will cost u big bucks and that is why a lot of states are now requiring a certification to deal with it
    What is mildew if it is not mould?

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
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  28. #28
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Thank you Scott. I was starting to get dizzy reading this thread. I would suggest that anyone working with or commenting on mold (mould) contamination get and study the following reference materials:
    • FUNGAL CONTAMINATION: A MANUAL FOR INVESTIGATION, REMEDIATION AND CONTROL - Bailey 2005
    • IICRC S-500
    • IICRC S-520
    The S-520 rides in the front seat of my truck with me every day.


  29. #29
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Go here for mould information: Mould Health Effects: State of knowledge (mold)

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  30. #30
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas McKay View Post
    Seen floor joist you could stick your screwdriver thru in a 12 month old home.
    Really? Or was that statement for dramatic effect?


  31. #31
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas McKay View Post
    Seen floor joist you could stick your screwdriver thru in a 12 month old home.
    Quote Originally Posted by chris mcintyre View Post
    Really? Or was that statement for dramatic effect?

    Here is a photo of a house under construction which I could ... well, just see the photo ...

    Came from the lumber yard that way, almost every stud around the second floor exterior load bearing walls were like that to varying degrees. Major headache for the builder.

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  32. #32
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Here is a photo of a house under construction which I could ... well, just see the photo ...

    Came from the lumber yard that way, almost every stud around the second floor exterior load bearing walls were like that to varying degrees. Major headache for the builder.
    I have seen mold (or whatever it is) like that in post #4 on lumber delivered from the lumber yard, but those pictures, well that's insane!


    Oh yea, pic #4, nice touch .


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    Thumbs down Re: mold in new construction

    Chris, I don't have to qualify the fact that mold can cause damage to wood joist in a short time you must not have the same experience I have under a house. Glad I live and work in Florida now where most homes are built on a slab you can have all my crawl spaces and bugs and snakes.


  34. #34
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas McKay View Post
    Chris, I don't have to qualify the fact that mold can cause damage to wood joist in a short time........
    No you don't, Jerry has already done that for you (well maybe not joist specifically, but I get the point).

    I prefer a crawl space, but around here builders are pretty evenly split 50/50.


  35. #35
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    Wink Re: mold in new construction

    Jerry, It does not appear that mold, if you are in the US or mould if you are British, caused the damage seen in your pictures, It most likely was caused by the wood being wet for a long time and just because wood stays wet does not always mean mold was involved. I have seen that condition when a friend of mine with a saw mill cuts lumber that lay on the wet ground for a time. It is usually culled out but apparently not all of the time. As far as the site you have listed to look at, it appears that they are the only one qualified to come to your house and see something thousandths of an inch big with the naked eye and tell you that you do or not have mold. While I agree that you do not always have to take samples when you see something suspicious, and after being trained and studied to do mold or air quality inspections, you have to start some where and to be able to look at the whole picture. Since there are millions of different species of mold all over the world they are usually defined to there own areas. The just of the matter is that mold is every where but if the sample in your house is of higher levels than the out door sample then it is positively certain that you indeed have a mold causing reason for it to be higher. A mold causing reason meaning usually a moisture problem.
    To the ones who wish to call mold mildew go ahead since it is related but a mildew problem is usually found around the tub, toilet, sink pipes and such and can simply be washed off with a strong detergent. It rarely penetrates the surface but if not cleaned off it will permanently stain the vessel, seeing this mildew around the shower stall would not be a justification to recommend a specialist to be called. But mold with its stringy little legs actually penetrates below the surface and will start to destroy that material. The picture with the screw driver shoes no sign of mold so how about bugs as the cause?


  36. #36
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    I don't understand what all the bickering is about.

    We all know what mold looks and smells like. If it's visible it needs to be mitigated and the cause needs to be addressed. It doesn't matter what type of mold it is.

    I mean really, if you swabbed the visible mold from these walls, door, or floor and found no deadly specimens would you honestly tell the clients they can live with this?

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  38. #38
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra Cook View Post
    The picture with the screw driver shoes no sign of mold so how about bugs as the cause?
    That was caused by water ... which caused fungi, mould, NOT wood destroying insects of any kind.

    Safety and Health Topics: Mold "Molds are fungi that are found everywhere – both indoors and outdoors all year round. The terms fungi and mold are often used interchangeably, but mold is actually a type of fungi."

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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Cobra, you are over trained man! The basic responsability of a home inspector is to report what he sees; not to show how smart he is or recommend how to fix, repair or shmoos the realtor. I am crtified through the wazzo on mold; it is so simple use comon sense just report if you see mold and and tell them it needs to be taken care of, that's it don't get so complicated you loose the cliet and the realtor. How many inspectors do you need to hear from that say if you see mold you got mold - what benifit does your client get from all the BS you atribute to your certification? Mold, mould, mildew, spoors or wdo's what is the difference they all will eat the wood in a home.


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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    That was caused by water ... which caused fungi, mould, NOT wood destroying insects of any kind.

    Safety and Health Topics: Mold "Molds are fungi that are found everywhere – both indoors and outdoors all year round. The terms fungi and mold are often used interchangeably, but mold is actually a type of fungi."
    .
    Mr. Peck,

    As you are explaining the points of your Post to this Gentleman.
    .
    Please introduce him to the Space and Enter Features as Well.
    .
    On Behalf of The Members & Guest of IN.
    .

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  41. #41
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas McKay View Post
    The basic responsibility of a home inspector is to report what he sees; not to show how smart he is
    Agreed. We don't want to come across as mold (mould) experts. That would be false pretence for most of the people that post here.
    Mold, mould, mildew, spoors or wdo's what is the difference they all will eat the wood in a home.
    With that I don't agree. The black stain on the walls in Ken's pic could be the stuff that causes allergic reaction in some humans.
    The fungi in Jerry's pics of destroyed wood are a different organism altogether, in my mind. The wood rot group of fungi causes structural damage, but we don't hear of them affecting people's health. So we do need to be clear on those fundamentals, do we not?

    So don't confuse rot with mold, even if they're both fungi.

    Mildew? That's just soft lingo, like calling a rat a "rodent". I do that, too.


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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    When you can poke your screw driver through a floor joist that will affect humans! May not couse them to cough or have phisical symptoms but when the floor collapses what is the difference. Same ptoblem same liability if you don't call a spade a spade!


  43. #43
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    Smile Re: mold in new construction

    I'm sorry jerry i just do not see any signs of Mold US, Mould British, or mildew, fungi ect on the screw driver picture. The plywood shows no sign of any thing wrong including moisture, maybe in person but absolutely not in the picture. I have saw that when carpenter ants, bees or beetles have gotten a hold of the wood.
    Some of you people are like a hammer cocked on a gun, ready to go off in a split second when you start to read a post, the idea here is to try to learn from other peoples experiences in the industry and try to help people with questions who simply want an answer they can under stand, without the grand hoopla that some of you bulls--ters just have to give.
    No i am not too smart because if i was i would not waste my time reading this site. As an inspector i do report what i see but at the same time i also go one step further to investigate what maybe caused what i see. But without a doubt when i see mildew forming around a shower i do not write up that they need to call a mold expert to come in and eradicate it, i simply suggest a detergent to wash it off, that is the difference between a home inspector and a good home inspector.


  44. #44
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    And this from the guy who believes "natural" gas is not, and contains no hydrocarbon?


  45. #45
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Rod I had picked up that on another site and just had to pass it along. Got the reaction I thought it would.


  46. #46
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Are there any methods by which we can completly get rid of molds?


  47. #47
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by john_opwin View Post
    .
    Are there any methods by which we can completly get rid of molds?
    .
    ........
    .

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  48. #48
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by john_opwin View Post
    Are there any methods by which we can completly get rid of molds?
    Sandblasting with dry ice. Saw Mike Holmes get that done. First they pulled down all the drywall so they could shoot the roof sheathing from the floor level.


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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Good morning, Gents –

    From the “for what it’s worth department…”

    “Mildew” is a term of art, like “building envelope” and it’s conclusive definition is dependent on who you ask. In my world, mildews (like “blights,” “wilts,” “smuts” and “rusts”) are exclusively plant pathogens. I would never refer to a mould or other fungal occurrence as a mildew unless it was growing on a living plant and I actual new it was a mildew.

    However, when Mrs. Smith describes to me the “mildew” growing on her wall (shower, clothes basket, carpet, whatever), I know what she is trying to tell me – she has a mould concern, and don’t try to correct her.

    Of course Jerry’s pictures appear to depict a completely different kind of fungal organism, the “rots” and in particular, the photos appear to indicate both brown rot and white rots may have been present – now why on Earth someone would actually install those timbers into new construction boggles the mind.

    Having said that…ALL new construction – ALL of it, with NO exceptions has mould. All new timbers, OSB, LVLs and other wood products are ALL installed into new construction with the mould already added (for your comfort and convenience). There is no way to remove it and there is no need to remove it (unless, of course, it’s just simply gross… let’s be reasonable.)

    Without knowing the whole story for the structure, if I saw the mould in the initial photograph that started this thread, I would say the following:

    “A very small amount of mould growth was observed on some timbers in the attic. Visual evidence indicates mould was present on the timbers when the timbers were installed into the house. Regardless, the mould is dormant, and has been dormant since the OSB decking was installed. The presence of the organism is inconsequential, and no action is required. We do not recommend any cleaning or remediation.”

    My experience with growth on OSB first or last or timbers first or last: Totality of the circumstances. Just depends on conditions. Sometimes the OSB is colonized first, sometimes last, sometimes in the middle of the colonization of a surface.

    Regarding the IICRC Standards – It has been awhile since I have read the standard (and I’m not too inclined to drop $200 to buy it). However, in general, the standard has an history of having a poor reputation amongst Industrial Hygienists and other science types, and is virtually never referenced in any remediation protocols that are written by mycologists, or industrial hygienists, and I have never seen an EPA, WHO, NIOSH, AIHA, or ACGIH ever reference it. (If IICRC wants to send me a copy, gratis, I would be happy to review the latest version).

    Who the blue blazes thinks natural gas contains no hydrocarbons? Natural gas is almost exclusively hydrocarbons – and very little else. Somehow I missed that discussion.

    Finally, Billy’s flame thrower idea has hit the nail on the head. The alternative, of course, is to just get on with life and worry about bigger fish.

    Cheers!
    Caoimhín P. Connell
    Forensic Industrial Hygienist
    Forensic Industrial Hygiene

    (The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

    AMDG



  50. #50
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    Smile Re: mold in new construction

    You have to get rid of any moisture problems first. John was only cleaning the mold off for aesthetics only not killing it. You have to spray with special chemicals that will penetrate into the wood fibers to kill it, bleach will not do that.But if you not get rid of the moisture problems it will just keep coming back.


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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Would that be a fresh or salt water fish?


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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas McKay View Post
    Would that be a fresh or salt water fish?
    Neither one, it was a silverfish.

    Here's a 60 yr old attic with a fresh crop of mycological growth in it.
    There's growth in the vent hose as well, another reason to hate vinyl accordion pipe.

    I would be confident to say this can be fixed by washing it off. Maybe that's foolish.

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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    What size hook do you use for a "Silverfish"? My WDO inspector says that the white stuff in you photos (great photos by the way) are an early stage of wood rot and its a good idea to get rid of it. What do you call it in your reports I have always called it MOLD and recommend mitigation and repair to any apparent damage. Also has anyone ever heard of removing mold for esthetic reasons, don't understand that one?


  54. #54
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas McKay View Post
    What size hook do you use for a "Silverfish"?

    Usually a "foot" hook, size varies depending on the individual, and one can also use a "foot" straight action, either resulting in a "clean catch", although "clean" may not be the best description of it.

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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Got that one right! Too small to filet or use for bait - how many of those critters have I seen painted over on a garage wall. Don't they cause MOLD?


  56. #56
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    Talking Re: mold in new construction

    After the mold had been killed by chemicals.what is left is dead and will not grow back unless it keeps getting wet. Some people just do not like what it looks like afterwards on the wood so you can use dry ice to clean the wood like new without further damage, a pressures washer works too but be sure to just spray not stream but the down side is it has to be dried well with fans or heaters or you are back where u started, dry ice leaves very little moisture if any. blame it on spell check. aesthetic. ie; looks, beauty and so on maybe not the exact word for it. You just don't like the way it looks so you clean it off. I believe also on that episode John had the experts to come in and eradicate the substance first! Just cleaning walls or wood will not get to the Hypha. A hypha consists of one or more cellssurrounded by a tubular cell wall. In most fungi, hyphae are divided into cells by internal cross-walls called "septa" (singularseptum). Septa are usually perforated by pores large enough for ribosomes, mitochondria and sometimes nuclei to flow between cells. The major structural polymer in fungal cell walls is typically chitin, in contrast to plants that have cellulosic cell walls. Some fungi have aseptate hyphae, meaning their hyphae are not partitioned by septa. This is what actually eats the material from the insides out.


  57. #57
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Usually a "foot" hook, size varies depending on the individual, and one can also use a "foot" straight action, either resulting in a "clean catch", although "clean" may not be the best description of it.
    There were lots of creepy-crawlys in this drawer. Some silverfish, too.

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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Good morning, Gents:

    Here’s a couple of thoughts.

    Attic
    If you have a WDO expert identifying the material as a rot, then I would certainly follow their recommendations.

    However, based on the photos, the whitish material doesn’t appear to be a rot; it is visually consistent with a common mould. It doesn’t appear to be active, and unless there is a new moisture source, there doesn’t appear to be any reason at all to address it (unless for aesthetic purposes).

    Cleaning for aesthetic purposes
    Probably 90% of the mould remediation projects that are performed are performed exclusively to address the aesthetic properties of the surface. Apart from that, there usually is no other good reason to clean the surface.

    I typically define “fungal problems” when the growth or fungal presence falls into one of four categories:

    1) The fungus constitutes an health hazard
    2) The fungus compromises structural integrity
    3) The fungus compromises aesthetic qualities
    4) The fungus compromises market value

    The four categories are not necessarily mutually exclusive, and each exhibits a continuum of severity which must be considered during any remediation. Where a mould is present that does not meet one of these criteria, I refer to the presence of the mould as “inconsequential.”

    So within that context, let’s look at the attic.

    1) If it is mould, it doesn’t constitute an health hazard.

    2) If it is mould, it doesn’t compromises structural integrity of the timbers

    3) The aesthetic qualities are subjective. However, clearly appearances are not important to the property owner, otherwise the timbers would have been painted, or otherwise make to look “pretty. “ So, obviously there is no aesthetic compromise.

    4) Market value? Well, that just magic – until a prospective buyer objects to the mould, then it doesn’t become a market issue. A lot of my work involves Realtors who call me in when someone has identified “toxic mould” in an attic or elsewhere and the bad information spoils the deal. I come in, put things back into perspective and frequently end up writing a letter to debunk the “toxic mould” nutter and repair the market value of the property (usually without ever having to actually address the mould itself).

    Chemicals
    The use of chemicals to treat moulds is virtually never needed. Now, I can imagine several situations where the treatment of timbers in the presence of rot (not a mould), could be warranted. However, in general, just as Cobra Cook points out, if the moisture issue isn’t addressed, the mould will return even if chemicals have been applied. Therefore, why apply them? Just correct the moisture issue.

    The US EPA and many other legitimate organizations all recommend against the use of “chemicals.” I’ve been writing remediation scopes of work for some 20 years – and I have always explicitly prohibited the use of such treatments since they offer absolutely no value (but they do increase the cost of the project, they can actually create mould and rot problems by trapping moisture, they do increase the human exposures to undesirable materials… and not much else).

    Cobra, I’m not sure what all the discussion about ribosomes, mitochondria and nuclei is all about, since it has nothing to do with the evaluation or remediation of a surface. Furthermore, fungi are eukaryotes and nucleic materials don’t flow between cells. I can’t think of any eukaryotic organism that shares mitochondria from cell to cell in non-diving cells. And it is entirely unimportant whether one addresses the hyphae or not provided one has addressed the moisture. So I’m not entirely sure of your point. It is perfectly acceptable to leave hyphae undisturbed and unaddressed (in fact most “mould remediation companies do just that – but they don’t realize it).

    I’m not in to ice fishing, by my favorite stretch of river is frozen. I’m going into shock, and have been trying to appease my fishing habit by keeping my blood alcohol level suitably elevated.

    Cheers!
    Caoimhín P. Connell
    Forensic Industrial Hygienist
    Forensic Industrial Hygiene

    (The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

    AMDG


  59. #59
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    Default Re: mold in new construction

    Learning to practice within your knowledge base is not a easy task, as this thread proves.

    Some areas of the US and some truss makers use green lumber. Lumber get wet prior to installation in the home.

    YES this is mold.

    But it is Only on the truss not on the sub floor , if it was a mold problem (a moistue problem) than it would be on the sub floor

    Construction Mold

    My Standard comment is this

    FYI -
    We noted what in our opinion appears to be construction mold. It is not uncommon for this type to have been present since the structure was built. Monitor this for new growth. If new growth is noted or if health concerns are experienced (such as respiratory issues), get this sampled or tested by a mold or air quality specialist. 

    This type on mold is on 50% of the homes I inspect



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