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  1. #1
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    Default ASking me to pay for repairs....

    Hello,
    I am getting asked by a home owner to pay for repairs made to a wire in a breaker. Owner is saying that when I removed and then reinstalled panel box cover that a wire got crimped and she had to call electrician to fix.
    I totally understand if that is my fault but was wondering would I have any ground to stand on since the box was installed in a location that did not meet the spacing needs in front of it. (in garage , in the very corner...so did not have side space)?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    What "side space"?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    You managed to get the cover off to inspect it. Apparently you crimped the wire putting the cover back on. Just pay it and chalk it up to experience.
    Trying to argue about clearances, etc, just doesn't make sense.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    While I agree with Jack, however, I also wanted to clarify what the clearance was you referring to, to make sure you knew what the required clearances are ... because there are not "side clearances".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    Tc,
    Did you take a picture of the box with cover on and with cover off?

    How did the home owner determine that there was a crimped wire that needed to be corrected?


  6. #6
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    Garry, bingo...

    Crimped a wire? Aren't wires circuits?
    Crimping is "joining 2 pieces of metal" or other ductile material (usually a wire and a metal plate) by deforming one or both of them to hold the other. The bend or deformity is called the crimp.

    I can see crimping how hose stops or reduces flow, but crimping wire will induce heat and reduce voltage.
    Revisit the client asap!

    Story. When I first started inspecting homes a man hired me to do a vendor's/ seller's inspection, to which I did. He in turn followed all my recommendations. I was kept abreast. He profited 80K plus. Still thanks me when we meet. Very nice man.

    Prior though, he was made suspect of the process and my ability/ies by his "trades in laws" - family members.

    They told him, Call him back saying the water heater heater stopped and so did the freezer. Say it must of occurred due to your dead front removed. A breaker dismount the bus bar.
    He said he would have an electrician come over and involve the insurance company.

    I told him I have all the photos of before, during and after. I will be there in 20 minutes. I was...
    Upon arrival he said everything is working and could not explain why???

    I went down stairs anyway and rechecked the breakers. All good.

    We went upstairs I mentioned, you are a very prolific collector of pottery and glass.
    I recognised many figurines. I use to dabble in collecting with mother I told him.

    He said this is nothing, I just moved 1.5 mini cube vans full of my prize collectables.

    To make a long story short, his trade in laws told him to do that to see my reaction. They figgered sellers inspections were full of horse feathers, he just gave away $600 dollars and I helped him make his wallet lighter. Read the fourth sentence to see how I helped.


    I would return to the home.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 08-03-2017 at 03:53 AM.
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    but was wondering would I have any ground to stand on since the box was installed in a location that did not meet the spacing needs in front of it.
    You may have had ground to stand on before you opened the panel, which would have prevented the issue according to that logic, but not afterwards. If it was unsafe then don't open it.

    Dom.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino View Post
    You may have had ground to stand on before you opened the panel, which would have prevented the issue according to that logic, but not afterwards. If it was unsafe then don't open it.

    Dom.
    yep..... just last week had a panel I refused to open (well the left side screws were concealed behind wood paneling lol) and the buyer gave me a look like I am being lazy

    Mike Pagozalski- Florida Home Inspector #HI9519, Radon Measurement Technician R2530, Exterior Design Institute #FL131, ITC Level II Thermographer #150761
    Tallahassee's Home Inspection Team

  9. #9
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino View Post
    If it was unsafe then don't open it.
    ... and DOCUMENT the condition with photos, notes, descriptions of the condition, etc.

    If you don't, then you have no "evidence" that the condition existed ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Pagozalski View Post
    ... gave me a look like I am being lazy
    ... and NOT documenting the condition IS not only "just being lazy", it is also being careless with your liability.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    ... and DOCUMENT the condition with photos, notes, descriptions of the condition, etc.

    If you don't, then you have no "evidence" that the condition existed ...



    ... and NOT documenting the condition IS not only "just being lazy", it is also being careless with your liability.
    oh I documented the hell out of it lol....along with explaining to them in person (which doesn't count in court) that there was a big difference between a HI performing a home inspection and an electrician who is there for the sole purpose of opening the panel that is partially sealed and dealing with whatever results exist from doing so

    Mike Pagozalski- Florida Home Inspector #HI9519, Radon Measurement Technician R2530, Exterior Design Institute #FL131, ITC Level II Thermographer #150761
    Tallahassee's Home Inspection Team

  11. #11
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    Quote Originally Posted by TcDuhon View Post
    Hello,
    I am getting asked by a home owner to pay for repairs made to a wire in a breaker. Owner is saying that when I removed and then reinstalled panel box cover that a wire got crimped and she had to call electrician to fix.
    ...............
    Jerry,
    Many people use varied terminology ( some correct and others not) .

    The description didn't make sense, "repairs made to a wire in a breaker. " then " reinstalled panel box cover that a wire got crimped".

    I took it as a wire was pinched between the box and the cover. Then there is the question of exactly what was the damage to the wire ?

    But I still wounder how the owner knew that a wire was between the cover and the box.
    Followed up by the question of why was there a wire springing out of the box in the first place. Would have liked to see the picture of the box uncovered.

    Guess we will never know.

    Granted the bottom line is if you break/damage something that had no issues you should take the responsibility for your actions. But you first must determine if you are at fault.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    Jerry,
    Many people use varied terminology ( some correct and others not) .
    Understood, but sometimes correct terminology if critical, especially if you are considering resting you asset on it.

    The description didn't make sense, "repairs made to a wire in a breaker. " then " reinstalled panel box cover that a wire got crimped".

    I took it as a wire was pinched between the box and the cover. Then there is the question of exactly what was the damage to the wire ?
    To me it made sense as I have seen wires in the panel which had to be 'tucked back in' to put the cover back on. I took it as meaning a couple of things, first, as you did, that a wire was pinched between the panel cover and the panel enclosure - easy enough to do when the conductors were left miles long in the panel ... but I also took it as meaning that a cover screw hit a wire when the cover was put back on - we've all seen that, or seen conductors which 'should have been hit, don't understand how it hasn't been', right?

    But I still wounder how the owner knew that a wire was between the cover and the box.
    Electrician apparently said that.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #13
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    "I am getting asked by a home owner to pay for repairs made to "a wire in a breaker."

    From what I understand the correct terminology to be is, A circuit conductor terminates at the terminal screw.

    Question; How could that circuit conductor termination be crimped in a breaker? It is torqued under the terminal screw. It should not move.

    Just asking.


    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    "I am getting asked by a home owner to pay for repairs made to "a wire in a breaker."

    From what I understand the correct terminology to be is, A circuit conductor terminates at the terminal screw.

    Question; How could that circuit conductor termination be crimped in a breaker? It is torqued under the terminal screw. It should not move.

    Just asking.
    Robert,

    Taking short sections out of context is not only not helpful, but does not even present a correct picture of what was asked - this is what was stated:

    "Owner is saying that when I removed and then reinstalled panel box cover that a wire got crimped and she had to call electrician to fix. "

    And, for even more context this:

    "I am getting asked by a home owner to pay for repairs made to a wire in a breaker. Owner is saying that when I removed and then reinstalled panel box cover that a wire got crimped and she had to call electrician to fix. "

    The first sentence describes location, i.e., 'what type of wire/where the wire was'.

    The second sentence describes the event, i.e., 'what happened'.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  15. #15
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    From the OP.
    "Owner is saying that "when I removed and then reinstalled panel box cover" that "a wire got crimped" and she had to call electrician to fix."
    I hope we can all agree on that.

    The homeowner is assuming that a hand movement moved a circuit conductor/wire. That circuit conductor/wire was somehow crimped during the dismount and remounting period.
    Everything else is taken out of context.
    The homeowner is reaching, at best.

    It can be said, although some may agree while others not, a circuit conductor/wire can get moved out of place through a hand movement when dismounting and remounting a dead front.

    Many have seen loose breakers, to breakers dislodge from the power bus bars removing panel fronts. I am sure you have.
    You fit the breaker back to it's original position on the power bus. During that time the circuit conductor is manipulated from it original position. You position the conductors in a reasonable sequence, carefully lining up the the conductor to the breaker termination, as best as you can, as not to be left between the dead front and the box when remounting the dead front, and fasten the panel font to its original position.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    The homeowner is assuming that a hand movement moved a circuit conductor/wire.
    Right there ... you make an assumption as to what the owner is presuming ... we don't know what the presumption was.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  17. #17
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    Interesting how TcDuhon has not responded to any questions. Is he/she for real?

    Department of Redundancy Department
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Interesting how TcDuhon has not responded to any questions. Is he/she for real?
    Appears so, He has been around the forum since at least 2009 and is listed on the TREC website as DUHON, THOMAS CHRISTOPHER



    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  19. #19
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    I am very sorry guys .
    I was in a real hurry writing this and I was basically repeating the verbiage of the listing agent that called me. She was basically saying when I reinstalled the the cover a wire got pinched for the A/C.
    It was an elderly lady in a big house , about to make a bunch of money.... I assumed , . So it was kind of hard for me to believe she really needed the $200.
    Anyway, I chalked it up to a loss. I was a little late in checking back with her. I have been moving my family for the past week and working at same time. So I apologize again for the bad thread but appreciate all the advice.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: ASking me to pay for repairs....

    Thanks for the follow up. Life is very time consuming.

    One day you will be asked by your kids how you were able to do all that you did while they were growing up. Because they can not figure out how you did it.

    Last edited by Garry Sorrells; 08-09-2017 at 08:26 PM.

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