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  1. #1
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    Default cracks in walkways

    When we find cracks in walkways, sometimes there is differential movement between the two pieces. Sometimes, this differential movement creates a trip hazard, and sometimes not.

    How much difference do you allow before calling it a trip hazard? 1", 2"...? Is there a code reference that can be applied to the actual height difference between two pieces of a walkway?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post
    When we find cracks in walkways, sometimes there is differential movement between the two pieces. Sometimes, this differential movement creates a trip hazard, and sometimes not.

    How much difference do you allow before calling it a trip hazard? 1", 2"...? Is there a code reference that can be applied to the actual height difference between two pieces of a walkway?
    If my foot can tell the difference or if I trip (which is most likely) I will note the problem in my report. I don't think that the codes address this.

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 01-09-2009 at 04:22 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Any difference in height is a trip hazard. How often have you tripped up when walking along at a particular height of surface and then the floor or pavement has even the slightest lift in it and trips you up or a stumble. Again, any difference from one side of a crack to the other, up or down, is a tripping hazard. Write it up.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    You should have a trip hazard note in every report. every home i have ever inspected had some kind of a lift or drop at one area or another.

    Best

    Ron


  5. #5
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    I go by 1/2" in height but if the tip of my shoe can catch it, I note it as a trip hazard.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    I've often wondered the same thing.... You guys that say you write up everything.... what about 1/8"? 1/64"? There's got to be some point where it's not a trip hazard and is just a crack.

    I also tend to go for about 1/2"


  7. #7
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    If my shoe catches on it, I write them up.

    If there is any question about it, there is a defensible position with accepting up to a 1/4" vertical change in level, and no defensible position for accepting higher, unless the difference in level is between 1/4" and 1/2" and is sloped 1:2 (rise:run) - anything higher than 1/2" is not defensible.

    The defensible position is based on the requirements of the ADA and the accessible route changes in level.

    From the Florida Building Code, Building.
    - 11-4.5.2 Changes in level.
    - - Changes in level up to inches (6 mm) may be vertical and without edge treatment [see Figure 11-7(c)]. Changes in level between inch and inch (6 mm and 13 mm) shall be beveled with a slope no greater than 1:2 [see Figure 11-7(d)]. Changes in level greater than inch (13 mm) shall be accomplished by means of a ramp that complies with Section 11-4.7 or 11-4.8.

    From the ADAAG (CFR 28 Chapter 1).
    - 4.5.2 Changes in Level.
    Changes in level up to 1/4 in (6 mm) may be vertical and without edge treatment (see Fig. 7(c) ). Changes in level between 1/4 in and 1/2 in (6 mm and 13 mm) shall be beveled with a slope no greater than 1:2 (see Fig. 7(d) ). Changes in level greater than 1/2 in (13 mm) shall be accomplished by means of a ramp that complies with 4.7 or 4.8.

    (See attached drawing from the ADAAG for figures 7(c) and 7(d).)



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  8. #8
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    write up a trip hazard always???????/

    Are you all lawyers looking for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?

    Insane posts
    aj


  9. #9
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    write up a trip hazard always???????/

    Are you all lawyers looking for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?

    Insane posts
    aj
    So you write up some trip hazards and not others? Not sure I follow you here.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    So you write up some trip hazards and not others? Not sure I follow you here.

    Nick... common sense... if a walk way is goofed up... write...

    being a contractor and homeowner... the need of inspection is mostly for hidden problems and problems only an expert would notice...

    I would think a walkway heaved up six inches would be noticeable to all... but something like bath fans terminating inside a wall would not be. I am presently working on a home where the inspection person said some code violations were OK.. and also he missed the absent vents for two baths and the overhead kitchen fan. Why did he? Oh I know why... because it would have taken time and risk to figure them out!!!!!

    Just like the Jersey inspectors that inspect roofs with binoculars... total wusses.
    aj


  11. #11
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    the need of inspection is mostly for hidden problems and problems only an expert would notice...

    Just like the Jersey inspectors that inspect roofs with binoculars... total wusses.
    aj
    A jac,

    So you walk on a 12/12 roof in the rain, too?

    I know you're not referring to me, cause I walk as as many as I can, along as it's safe. So don't put all Jersey inspectors in the same boat.

    An inspection is for only hidden problems...That's just too ridiculous to even comment on.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by neal lewis View Post
    A jac,

    So you walk on a 12/12 roof in the rain, too?

    I know you're not referring to me, cause I walk as as many as I can, along as it's safe. So don't put all Jersey inspectors in the same boat.

    An inspection is for only hidden problems...That's just too ridiculous to even comment on.
    So you only inspect walkable roofs and non hidden defects?

    crazy business... As I see it... $300-500 wasted. Hire a trusted contractor... my idea... as to banks... they all could care less. Look at the banks now... all about greed... the same as Owens Corning dying insulation pink and hiring a panther cartoon to sell it... snake oil...

    all snake oil.

    aj


  13. #13
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    You're funny adkjac. By the way, do your parents know you're up so late and using the computer?


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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    If my shoe catches on it, I write them up.

    If there is any question about it, there is a defensible position with accepting up to a 1/4" vertical change in level, and no defensible position for accepting higher, unless the difference in level is between 1/4" and 1/2" and is sloped 1:2 (rise:run) - anything higher than 1/2" is not defensible.

    The defensible position is based on the requirements of the ADA and the accessible route changes in level.

    From the Florida Building Code, Building.
    - 11-4.5.2 Changes in level.
    - - Changes in level up to inches (6 mm) may be vertical and without edge treatment [see Figure 11-7(c)]. Changes in level between inch and inch (6 mm and 13 mm) shall be beveled with a slope no greater than 1:2 [see Figure 11-7(d)]. Changes in level greater than inch (13 mm) shall be accomplished by means of a ramp that complies with Section 11-4.7 or 11-4.8.

    From the ADAAG (CFR 28 Chapter 1).
    - 4.5.2 Changes in Level.
    Changes in level up to 1/4 in (6 mm) may be vertical and without edge treatment (see Fig. 7(c) ). Changes in level between 1/4 in and 1/2 in (6 mm and 13 mm) shall be beveled with a slope no greater than 1:2 (see Fig. 7(d) ). Changes in level greater than 1/2 in (13 mm) shall be accomplished by means of a ramp that complies with 4.7 or 4.8.

    (See attached drawing from the ADAAG for figures 7(c) and 7(d).)

    Interesting sketches.... I've always wondered about door thresholds as some of them extend several inches above the surronding floor surface. I guess it all depends on the sloping of the surfaces. That makes sense, mainly so wheelchair wheels can ride over the bumps but it also makes you less likely to catch a toe.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    ASTM F1637-95 "Standard Practice for Safe Walking Surfaces" is attached. I believe that this is the standard that formed the groundwork for most building codes and ADAAG. There's also a great sketch attached that I use. I don't remember where I got it. It's not part of ASTM

    Attached Files Attached Files

  16. #16
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    Nick... common sense... if a walk way is goofed up... write...

    being a contractor and homeowner... the need of inspection is mostly for hidden problems and problems only an expert would notice...

    I would think a walkway heaved up six inches would be noticeable to all... but something like bath fans terminating inside a wall would not be. I am presently working on a home where the inspection person said some code violations were OK.. and also he missed the absent vents for two baths and the overhead kitchen fan. Why did he? Oh I know why... because it would have taken time and risk to figure them out!!!!!

    Just like the Jersey inspectors that inspect roofs with binoculars... total wusses.
    aj
    Huh????????????????


  17. #17
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    So you only inspect walkable roofs and non hidden defects?

    crazy business... As I see it... $300-500 wasted. Hire a trusted contractor... my idea... as to banks... they all could care less. Look at the banks now... all about greed... the same as Owens Corning dying insulation pink and hiring a panther cartoon to sell it... snake oil...

    all snake oil.

    aj
    Huh??????????????????????????????????????????????? ???


  18. #18
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post

    You're funny adkjac.

    By the way, do your parents know you're up so late and using the computer?
    .
    Naw He's just a " Custom ( my way or the highway ) Builder" in upstate New York.
    *
    you know they make great picante sauce in New York.
    .



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  19. #19
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Walk along a straight surface. Glance down at your feet as move alone. You'll notice that as you bring your rear foot forward, it's not very high off the ground. Maybe a 1/4 or a 1/2 inch.

    I find myself taking in the bigger picture. Looking at the surroundings. A 1/4 inch may be enough to prevoke a response one job. On another, maybe a 1/2 won't.

    I walk back and forth over suspected areas repeatedly to try and simulate what could happen. I'm glad to hear that other inspectors pay close attention to this too.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post

    being a contractor and homeowner... the need of inspection is mostly for hidden problems and problems only an expert would notice...

    I would think a walkway heaved up six inches would be noticeable to all... but something like bath fans terminating inside a wall would not be. I am presently working on a home where the inspection person said some code violations were OK.. and also he missed the absent vents for two baths and the overhead kitchen fan. Why did he? Oh I know why... because it would have taken time and risk to figure them out!!!!!

    Just like the Jersey inspectors that inspect roofs with binoculars... total wusses.
    aj
    This comment begs at lest 6 or 7 questions before one can
    even begin to ponder a response.

    I'm not sure you understand the true context of the home inspection industry. It's like you think that every home buyer knows as much as you? On second thought, they may be better off knowing less.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post
    Walk along a straight surface. Glance down at your feet as move alone. You'll notice that as you bring your rear foot forward, it's not very high off the ground. Maybe a 1/4 or a 1/2 inch.

    I find myself taking in the bigger picture. Looking at the surroundings. A 1/4 inch may be enough to provoke a response one job. On another, maybe a 1/2 won't.

    I walk back and forth over suspected areas repeatedly to try and simulate what could happen. I'm glad to hear that other inspectors pay close attention to this too.
    Its not even that your foot only may lift off the ground a quarter to 1/2 inch. When you go to lift you foot it might be at the point of the rise on the other side of the crack. It catches that slight rise and you stumble or trip and fall. You may stumble but old folks will most likely fall because they are more of the shuffle type folks, brittle bones and a time in the hospital. Uh oh/ And you did not write it up.

    I built a deck that was 7 inches higher than the deck it connected to. Her lawyer called me after she tripped and snapped her ankle. I was supposedly at fault because the ocean was off to your left when stepping down and the deck should not have been built like that with such a distraction off to the left where people would not be paying attention.

    After some polite conversation that was leading to the old trip up conversation I asked the lawyer if this was being recorded. He said yes. I said good, you can take your questions and stick them up your a**. Never heard back from him again. I did hear from the old lady. She asked if I would put anything toward her medical bills. She was being awfully sweet. Ah, no.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Ted buddy... I have a house to renovate this winter... Thousands of dollars worth of errors that will be corrected by us. This house was just given a CO. This house was just private inspected with the wonderful hundred page checkbox report. What I understand is this... both the county inspector and the private inspector let $20,000 or more of mistakes go. The house also was given a pass on it's electric inspection and the electric has easily observeable errors.

    More on inspections... I often look through homes being built and look through friends homes and cellars. I have yet to go through even one cellar ever that was without code violations... to do with proper waste plumbing, proper wiring, hole location drilling, wire bundling, stapling, separation of plumbing from electric panel, and lots more... stairs with last or first rise out of tolerance, missing risers, regular wood touching concrete, romex run down the walls exposed, instead of MC or conduit, and the list just goes on and on and on... These are all homes that have CO's from multiple inspections and multiple inspectors. And as to private inspectors... they all know that there inspection is to be agreeable to the realtors and the one paying... so... that's that.... and it's not like any home loses it's CO ever. Actually one home did around here in all of the years I have been here.


    I have absolutely zero faith in inspections.

    I am sure you all are great folks... but basically the business is as corrupt... or grey as politics.

    love and peace
    aj


  23. #23
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    I have absolutely zero faith in inspections. aj
    .

    Which is twice as much faith as we have in builders.

    Now you know where you stand: Half as believable as an inspector.

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  24. #24
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    Ted buddy... I have a house to renovate this winter... Thousands of dollars worth of errors that will be corrected by us. This house was just given a CO. This house was just private inspected with the wonderful hundred page checkbox report. What I understand is this... both the county inspector and the private inspector let $20,000 or more of mistakes go. The house also was given a pass on it's electric inspection and the electric has easily observeable errors.

    More on inspections... I often look through homes being built and look through friends homes and cellars. I have yet to go through even one cellar ever that was without code violations... to do with proper waste plumbing, proper wiring, hole location drilling, wire bundling, stapling, separation of plumbing from electric panel, and lots more... stairs with last or first rise out of tolerance, missing risers, regular wood touching concrete, romex run down the walls exposed, instead of MC or conduit, and the list just goes on and on and on... These are all homes that have CO's from multiple inspections and multiple inspectors. And as to private inspectors... they all know that there inspection is to be agreeable to the realtors and the one paying... so... that's that.... and it's not like any home loses it's CO ever. Actually one home did around here in all of the years I have been here.


    I have absolutely zero faith in inspections.

    I am sure you all are great folks... but basically the business is as corrupt... or grey as politics.

    love and peace
    aj
    Dude it must be your area

    I see some of the best inspector working in my area.

    Best

    Ron


  25. #25
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    .

    Which is twice as much faith as we have in builders.

    Now you know where you stand: Half as believable as an inspector.

    Jerry buddy pal... you are such a stickler for details... how did you miss that my post above was to Ted??????1

    Now this one is for you Jerry... go ahead... read my post again..and instead of being the board cry baby heckler... talk to me about my statements to do with inspectors missing tons of code violations on this one home and always a few on every house I have ever entered...?

    Talk to me about the post... instead of the baby poop posts Jerry buddy... if you are inspector man enough to
    aj


  26. #26
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    .
    ... I have a house to renovate this winter...

    aj
    .
    You Flipping Now ( instead of building? )
    .



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  27. #27
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    instead of the baby poop posts

    You are the one doing the crying.

    Crying about all those inspectors you don't like, then crying about all that they do that they should not be doing, then crying about them missing all this other stuff.

    You need to get a grip, get a life, decide which line of thinking you will follow, then proceed in that direction.

    Oh, yeah, and quit crying like a baby about people not agreeing with you. You must really be a piece or work (shoddy work, that is).

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  28. #28
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    You are the one doing the crying.

    Crying about all those inspectors you don't like, then crying about all that they do that they should not be doing, then crying about them missing all this other stuff.

    You need to get a grip, get a life, decide which line of thinking you will follow, then proceed in that direction.

    Oh, yeah, and quit crying like a baby about people not agreeing with you. You must really be a piece or work (shoddy work, that is).
    my posts clearly state that I have been hired to redo shoddy work not do shoddy work. Are you psychotic?


  29. #29
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    You Flipping Now ( instead of building? )
    .
    I like the pic Billy... as to my next project... it is for a customer that was severly taken to the cleaners by his GC, and our county inspectors.
    aj


  30. #30
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    I like the pic Billy... as to my next project... it is for a customer that was severly taken to the cleaners by his GC, and our county inspectors.
    aj
    .
    AJ,

    Take half a breath, calm down a little and don't come on so strong .

    We all got our jobs to do.
    *instead of
    .

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  31. #31
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    I like the pic Billy... as to my next project... it is for a customer that was severly taken to the cleaners by his GC, and our county inspectors.
    aj
    AJ

    Number 1

    Don't call me buddy. In the North East a buddy is for B** Fu**** And I am not one of them.

    Number 2. Exactly why are you on her Mr AJ. I am trying to grasp it but you are on an Inspectors (be it public) website and you seem to want to do nothing but bitch about home inspectors. One for doing things as they should and the other for not doing things as they should.

    Enlighten us to exactly what you want and maybe we can spin a story to your liking. Perhaps a mix of good verses evil. Or the right way verses the wrong way.

    As far as Home Inspectors sucking up to Realtors I am sure there are some. I lose Realtors all the time because I tell it like it is on my reports. After a few slug properties I receive no more referrals. It is kind of like builders in the North East sucking up to inspectors to get there jobs to pass. Then thanking them when others screw up and the inspector (city) passes them and you get the rehab and then bitch about their shoddy workmanship.


  32. #32
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    I like the pic Billy... as to my next project... it is for a customer that was severly taken to the cleaners by his GC,

    See? That's what we've all been saying. You just have not been listening/reading.

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  33. #33
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Ted,

    Have you ever Visited a Contractors Forum ?

    Action Packed, Thought Provoking, Deep Learning Discussions.

    Such as

    " Do you Cope or 45 your corner boards which is Better and Faster ? "
    * 4 full pages of responses from the Best & Brightest.
    .

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    Last edited by Billy Stephens; 01-10-2009 at 09:42 PM.
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  34. #34
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Here is the deal boys...

    I came to this site to research some code issues... and found out it is rather entertaining too... as in all the Jerry postings for sure!!!!

    And... have no problemo mixing it up with a typical board bully boy or two... great laughs for sure don't yaa all think?!

    Yaa.. there are some poor inspections, inspectors and builders in my area...

    my posts of late... were in reaction to worries, concerns posted here that seem miniscule and damn near nothings compared to errors I see where water will quickly do damage or joists may have been really screwed up with wrongly drilled holes.... blah blah blah...

    I tire of all this fun debate for the night...

    may you all carry on for a bit with out my great drivvle
    aj


  35. #35
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    Ted,

    Have you ever Visited a Contractors Forum ?

    Action Packed, Thought Provoking, Deep Learning Discussions.

    Such as

    " Do you Cope or 45 your corner boards which is Better and Faster ? "
    * 4 full pages of responses from the Best & Brightest.
    .
    so Billy boy... yaa couldn't cope... had to become an inspector? ...

    just kidding... yaa... all the boards are full of whacks and hacks...

    just us are smart tall and handsome... the prince's of the world of construction...

    love and kisses
    aj

    nighty night

    oh... I did read the pdf on safe walkable areas... pretty good info... I do learn something here... yeah.


  36. #36
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    oh... I did read the pdf on safe walkable areas... pretty good info... I do learn something here... yeah.
    .

    You learned what the ASTM Standard was saying, what the ADAAG was saying, and what the code was saying, all by reading the a non-authority document BASED on all of those?

    You did just learn that?

    You SHOULD have KNOWN that years ago.

    Read the references I just referred to, then simply think and use common sense, if this walkway is this (enter defect), and it is not supposed to be greater than this (enter limits here), this is when and how to correct it (enter common sense results of putting the two together here).

    Let's see ... Duh! ... a walkway become a ramp if the slope is greater than 1/50, and the maximum slope of a ramp is 1/12, so ... if the ramp slopes more than 4" in 4' (1" in 1' = 1/12 because 1' = 12") ... yeah, you have to correct it.

    That document said the same about all that stuff, it simply gave the parameters of what is allowed, said if it exceeds that you correct it.

    And *you* JUST LEARNED THAT?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    www.AskCodeMan.com

  37. #37
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Jerry or should I call you GOD... YOUR HIGHNESS,

    Yes... I did learn a bit about 1/2"'s and sidewalks from the PDF... Look... up here I build and renovate homes and camps around the lakes... they have paths filled with rocks, made of rocks, roots, gravel and lots more... existing Jerry... rural vacation area... natural... the way they like it mostly. This is not downtown Atlanta. There is not a lot I have learned from any of your posts Jerry except that you like to attack anyone who is not your follower agreeing with every paragraph and subparagraph you post. All situations and needs are not the same Jerry.

    And thank the other God that that all are not like you bro.

    love and peace
    aj


  38. #38
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Hey AJ,

    As you can see we all use our real name and hide nothing. Why don't you change your profile so that we will all know who you are. Nothing to hide. Anonymous postings like yours are never taken seriously.

    If you are not ashamed of your work product as a builder, you should be proud to post your real name and location.

    Now back to the original question that started this thread!

    When we find cracks in walkways, sometimes there is differential movement between the two pieces. Sometimes, this differential movement creates a trip hazard, and sometimes not.

    How much difference do you allow before calling it a trip hazard? 1", 2"...? Is there a code reference that can be applied to the actual height difference between two pieces of a walkway?
    __________________
    John Dirks Jr
    Arundel Home Inspection L
    Again, if my foot can detect any change in height I will note the problem. Your foot can detect small changes in height. I can't tell you how many times I have found cupped wood floors just with my foot going across the top of the floor.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  39. #39
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    And as to private inspectors... they all know that there inspection is to be agreeable to the realtors and the one paying... so... that's that.... and it's not like any home loses it's CO ever. Actually one home did around here in all of the years I have been here... I have absolutely zero faith in inspections... I am sure you all are great folks... but basically the business is as corrupt... or grey as politics.
    You're displaying a pretty deep ignorance of our business works.

    1) Most inspectors here obtain little business via referrals from real estate agents precisely because we are working for the people who are paying our bills, typically the prospective purchasers of the property. We get sued if we overlook significant problems, our financial incentive is to find and fully document problems, not overlook them.

    2) The function of home inspector is not perform a code inspection nor to act as a deputy of the AHJ. We have no code enforcement powers whatsoever, and our clients are at choice about whether they choose to act on any recommendation we may make; when we inspect property we've inspected previously, we often discover that many items we had cited as deficient or defective have not been repaired based on our recommendation at the previous inspection.

    More generally, I think it's pretty clear that the potential and motivation for practicing political "corruption" is far higher for contractors than for home inspectors; we have no financial interest in whether a property can pass municipal inspections and no incentive to attempt to compromise or corrupt municipal inspection process, contractors on the other hand have a very strong incentive to do so - IMO in general the concept of contractors accusing home inspectors of "corruption" is risible .

    Last edited by Michael Thomas; 01-11-2009 at 10:04 AM.
    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

  40. #40
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Lay your bets down gentlemen. Who wants to put money on the ideas that:
    a) he hired an inspector recommended by the realtor
    b) that it was a crappy checkbox inspection
    c) he either wasn't there during the inspection or was a hovering Bee
    Since I have been hired many times to do inspections after someone has already paid someone else for a crappy checkbox inspection, I can understand his frustration.
    However, just reading some of the threads on this board, can clearly prove to just about anyone how dumb his generalization is.
    As far as cracks in walkways, I vaguely remember the existence of some Cook County ordinance about 1.5" being the threshold. Differences above that don't require prior notice to sue in case of a fall, less than that do require prior notice. I might still have it somewhere, I'll look for it. Any local guys know?

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  41. #41
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Keller View Post
    As far as cracks in walkways, I vaguely remember the existence of some Cook County ordinance about 1.5" being the threshold. Differences above that don't require prior notice to sue in case of a fall, less than that do require prior notice. I might still have it somewhere, I'll look for it. Any local guys know?
    .

    "Prior notice" ... (as you just begin to fall) ... "I'm going to sue your arse if I fall and cannot catch myself without being injured." ... (THUD! THUMP! CRACK!) ... "You are in for it now! I'm calling my lawyer!".



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  42. #42
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Keller View Post
    Lay your bets down gentlemen. Who wants to put money on the ideas that:
    a) he hired an inspector recommended by the realtor
    b) that it was a crappy checkbox inspection
    c) he either wasn't there during the inspection or was a hovering Bee
    Since I have been hired many times to do inspections after someone has already paid someone else for a crappy checkbox inspection, I can understand his frustration.
    However, just reading some of the threads on this board, can clearly prove to just about anyone how dumb his generalization is.
    As far as cracks in walkways, I vaguely remember the existence of some Cook County ordinance about 1.5" being the threshold. Differences above that don't require prior notice to sue in case of a fall, less than that do require prior notice. I might still have it somewhere, I'll look for it. Any local guys know?
    Hey Marcus... greetings... case in point... homeowner hired inspector, and I do not know how he found him, i am guessing yellow pages or internet. The homeowner was there and so was I, no one hovered, the guy was nice, was happy with us, explained some parts of what he found verbally and then mailed his checkbox report to us. OK... I know all that you posted to be the case... as to COs and all... my beef is ... what's the point of getting inspected? IF nada happens from the inspection? Might as well just have a contractor you trust come by and look things over and offer solutions if desired. Anyway... this home does have a few trip spots, due to poor construction, anyone walking the areas knows where they are... and the homeowner is willing to live with them as he has other areas that he needs to spend money on first such as unfinished bathrooms and the kitchen and chimney chase. And the home has a CO. The whole mess is giving me a nice project to work on, and great customers.. but it did not give me any good thoughts as to the others involved who failed these customers so blatantly.

    One more for you all.. How many of you would have looked inside his chimney chase? Several errors inside to be corrected by me... I looked... no one else did.

    How many of you would know what was done wrong under the t&g ceiling?

    My work is not perfect, no one's is... but this home has so many errors, the list would be endless. And yet some look at the new home and say... nice new home!!!

    aj

    Peace...

    Lastly.... I am sure you all do great work...


  43. #43
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    If I can get to a chimney chase to look down it I always do. One thing I always find is the the interior walls have no insulation in them. Metal flue chases must be closed off to the attic area so you can never (if they are closed off) see down them.


  44. #44
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post

    One more for you all.. How many of you would have looked inside his chimney chase? .
    .
    .....
    .

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  45. #45
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    .....
    .

    Billy... this home... wood framed chase, with manufactured fireplace, metal double wall flue... The problems all are inside the framed chase. No one looked inside, well I did. No insulation, no air barriers, no rainscreening, no top to chase, flue not tall enough, flue not properly topped with flue top, collar. No drainage pitch to framed chase top where eventual chase top is to be placed. Got any pics of inside a framed chase?


  46. #46
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post

    Got any pics of inside a framed chase?
    .
    Do You?
    .

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  47. #47
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    Do You?
    .

    I will take pics for you Billy... I looked in at all, let the homeowner know... talked solutions and we are now going to fix all between now and this spring.

    as you know... I am a builder, not an inspector.

    Anyway... I am real ready to call a truce... I pretty much understand the business of inspecting at this point and will still use your site here to look into discussions of interest to me as I have an interest in learning.

    Love and kisses to all especially my best friend and pal Jerry
    aj


  48. #48
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    Hey Marcus... greetings... case in point... homeowner hired inspector, and I do not know how he found him, i am guessing yellow pages or internet. The homeowner was there and so was I, no one hovered, the guy was nice, was happy with us, explained some parts of what he found verbally and then mailed his checkbox report to us. OK... I know all that you posted to be the case... as to COs and all... my beef is ... what's the point of getting inspected? IF nada happens from the inspection? Might as well just have a contractor you trust come by and look things over and offer solutions if desired. Anyway... this home does have a few trip spots, due to poor construction, anyone walking the areas knows where they are... and the homeowner is willing to live with them as he has other areas that he needs to spend money on first such as unfinished bathrooms and the kitchen and chimney chase. And the home has a CO. The whole mess is giving me a nice project to work on, and great customers.. but it did not give me any good thoughts as to the others involved who failed these customers so blatantly.

    One more for you all.. How many of you would have looked inside his chimney chase? Several errors inside to be corrected by me... I looked... no one else did.

    How many of you would know what was done wrong under the t&g ceiling?

    My work is not perfect, no one's is... but this home has so many errors, the list would be endless. And yet some look at the new home and say... nice new home!!!

    aj

    Peace...

    Lastly.... I am sure you all do great work...
    I just realized that I know you..... I think I've heard of/from you before. You're the 'contractor' that goes through a house and picks fly poop out of pepper and encourages the homeowner to contact an attorney. Then, the game is on.

    Reality is the first thing that flies out the window... next is everyone's money. Then, in comes the insurance company along with more lawyers and more money and more money and more money. Thank god there are people like you out there to save the day. I can only imagine the sane state the world be in today if it weren't for you.

    Welcome to the board


  49. #49
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    ... what's the point of getting inspected? IF nada happens from the inspection? Might as well just have a contractor you trust come by and look things over and offer solutions if desired
    Once again, it appears to me that you have a very poor understanding of our business.

    For starters, quite often our clients are not really looking for punchlist of issues to address, they're concerned about major latent defects, either because they want to walk away if these are present, or because they wish to re-negotiate the sales price based on what we find. And the unfortunate fact is that quite often if our clients are successful in doing the latter, they are not going to correct the defects we discover, they're going to go out and buy a 50 inch plasma TV instead.

    Is this case "Nada a got done " as a result of the inspection, but if the buyers are able to negotiate a $2500 reduction in the sales price as a result of defects the inspector discovered but which they have no intention of correcting, the client probably feels the money they spent on the inspection was well worth it.

    I may find it annoying or depressing or even infuriating when I inspect the same house a few years later and find that the conduit down the side of the house is still cracked off at the top of the meter cabinet and the inside of the service equipment panel is even more corroded than when I last saw it, I would much prefer that the problems I found get corrected, especially if they represent significant hazards, or if failure to address them is going to lead to much more expensive problems down the road.

    But my job is to make clients aware of defects, not force them to correct them - and one of the things that I find most striking about my colleagues in this business is that so many of us continue to try to improve our inspection and reporting skills, even in the face of the fact that many of our clients will fail to take advantage of those skills, and that our job would be much "easier" if our consciences would let us do the sort of inferior job that we know from experience that some in our business foist off on their clients every day.

    Instead, however, we keep trying.

    -------------

    Typically, at inspections of existing construction home inspectors will not be able to view the interior of the chimney's chase unless we can do so from the attic, in which case... well... we already have a problem because we can view the interior of the chase from the attic. And, no, we generally won't know what's under the tongue and groove ceiling unless it's readily visible from the attic - in both cases we are not allowed to do perform destructive investigations of someone else's property on behalf of our clients.

    Last edited by Michael Thomas; 01-12-2009 at 06:50 AM.
    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

  50. #50
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    One thing I am really learning about this board... Matt... where in the hell are you coming from? Can you read? I am the no lawyer, no inspector guy.. get in... see what the homeowner wants and needs... show him what I see and then do only the work desired.

    Where do you get the high costs... the lawyers,,, insurance.. all that from?????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????

    How can you inspect homes if you can't come even close to following the rediculous overly chatted about saga that I am in here??????

    Let's just leave this at a pointless stalemate from now till eternity...

    sleepy sleep time.... please post for me... and argue this out with out me... nighty night


  51. #51
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Does NY have licensing? Some of his sentences sound like 'inspection' work to me.
    I used to do 'inspections' for existing clients years ago before licensing. In retrospect those inspections were decent, not great. I'm a tad bit smarter now but regardless of that, the important factor is the eyes through which I view the inspection process. As an inspector, not a contractor viewing a probable job.
    The question of 'what's the point if they don't fix anything anyway' is utter nonsense. It's like asking, 'why build a safe car, you don't plan on crashing do you?'.

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  52. #52
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    One thing I am really learning about this board... Matt... where in the hell are you coming from? Can you read? I am the no lawyer, no inspector guy.. get in... see what the homeowner wants and needs... show him what I see and then do only the work desired.

    Where do you get the high costs... the lawyers,,, insurance.. all that from?????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????

    How can you inspect homes if you can't come even close to following the rediculous overly chatted about saga that I am in here??????

    Let's just leave this at a pointless stalemate from now till eternity...

    sleepy sleep time.... please post for me... and argue this out with out me... nighty night
    Forgive me for speculating. You're right - buyers call me all the time to give the name of a good contractor that came after my inspector and 'fixed' all the things he missed. They do this just to be nice. They never want anything.

    btw.... We're all still waiting for you to update your profile with your real name. Why the anonymity?


  53. #53
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    Billy... this home... wood framed chase, with manufactured fireplace, metal double wall flue... The problems all are inside the framed chase. No one looked inside, well I did. No insulation, no air barriers, no rainscreening, no top to chase, flue not tall enough, flue not properly topped with flue top, collar. No drainage pitch to framed chase top where eventual chase top is to be placed. Got any pics of inside a framed chase?
    Lots of pictures posted here, just look.
    http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...t-dsc07936.jpg

    http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...t-dsc07937.jpg

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  54. #54
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    Default Re: cracks in walkways

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    my beef is ... what's the point of getting inspected? IF nada happens from the inspection? Might as well just have a contractor you trust come by and look things over and offer solutions if desired.
    That's a question you should ask of the people who choose to do nothing with the findings contained in their inspection report and live with the defects. Are we supposed to hold their hand every step of the way and remind them to get things done?

    Quote Originally Posted by adkjac View Post
    One more for you all.. How many of you would have looked inside his chimney chase? Several errors inside to be corrected by me... I looked... no one else did.

    How many of you would know what was done wrong under the t&g ceiling?

    My work is not perfect, no one's is... but this home has so many errors, the list would be endless. And yet some look at the new home and say... nice new home!!!

    aj

    Peace...

    Lastly.... I am sure you all do great work...
    You do a great job of telling everybody how good you think you are. What makes you think nobody here looks at these things? If all you want to do is come here and naysay, you must have too much time on your hands. I'm sure most of us can relay some story of a builder/contractor who did shoddy work or dropped the ball on a job. Is it fair for us to paint you with the same brush and assume you are doing crap work and stealing people's money.


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