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  1. #1
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    Default garage service door lock

    Do any of the codes require a keyed lock to enter the house from the garage?

    Just found a builder using interior type locksets on these.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    No, but code are "minimum".

    Remember, that door is an "exterior" door in that it goes out of the thermal envelope of the house.

    The code does not even require a locking set at the front or required egress door.

    Yes, if a builder truly built a "house to code" ... it would be one wretched mess of "minimums" and one would wonder if the builder had any common sense - the answer would be "No, they did not."

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    Just a thought Bruce, are you sure the door and lockset is intended to be the finished product? Around here it is common to see "construction" doors used which are changed out with the finished doors once the threat of damage is reduced during the finish out.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    Yes, I even heard the builder "explaining" it to the buyer...


  5. #5
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    One of the cities here requires a deadbolt on home to garage door.

    Jeff Moore AZ Cert#49250
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    Quote Originally Posted by J Moore View Post
    One of the cities here requires a deadbolt on home to garage door.
    That just sounds like a fire hazard to me. How are you supposed to egress during the fire if you can't find the key through all the smoke?


  7. #7
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    R311.4.4 Type of lock or latch.
    All egress doors shall be
    readily openable from the side from which egress is to be
    made without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort.

    If the deadbolt is a thumb turn latch then that is allowed by code.




  8. #8
    Mike Truss Guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    R311.4.4 Type of lock or latch.
    All egress doors shall be
    readily openable from the side from which egress is to be
    made without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort.

    If the deadbolt is a thumb turn latch then that is allowed by code.

    Ah. Makes sense to me.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce King View Post
    Yes, I even heard the builder "explaining" it to the buyer...
    I'll bet he even had a straight face and never once "explanied" the real reason was that he wanted to save $5 on the lockset.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
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  10. #10
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    Question Re: garage service door lock

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    R311.4.4 Type of lock or latch.

    All egress doors shall be

    readily openable from the side from which egress is to be
    made without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort.


    If the deadbolt is a thumb turn latch then that is allowed by code.
    The ICC web site is having trouble with there data base and I can't access the code.

    I thought the requirement was "One of the emergency egress doors shall be readily openable from the side from which egress is to be made without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort."

    Is this a NC thing or am I all wet?


    Last edited by Vern Heiler; 06-03-2009 at 05:53 AM. Reason: formatting

  11. #11
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    The ICC web site is having trouble with there data base and I can't access the code.

    I thought the requirement was "One of the emergency egress doors shall be readily openable from the side from which egress is to be made without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort."

    Is this a NC thing or am I all wet?

    "all wet"

    Why on earth would you want to trap someone inside at *all but one* egress door?

    EVERY egress door ... needs to be such that one can get to heck out in an emergency without having to try to find a key or have special knowledge about how to open the door - in an emergency situation you will need to get to heck out as soon as possible, and that does not mean standing there struggling to open a door with an unusual operating mechanism.

    I inspected a larger (about 15,000 sf) and expensive (about $12 mil) house which had French door at all entry (egress) locations. The doors were security locking doors where you would raise the handle once to throw the mechanism which locks the top and bottom of the doors to the jamb, then turn the lock knob to lock the latch side - that lock knob turned and turned and turned and in fact turned *7* times to throw that latching mechanism all the way.

    Opening the door from the locked position first meant turning and turning and turning and turning *7* times that knob to unlatch the latch side, THEN lowering the handle down low to throw the top and bottom door latches, returning the handle to center, and ... finally ... turn the handle normally to open the latch bolt and open the door.

    It only took me about 30 minutes to figure out how to lock, then unlock that door (if you tried to push the handle down when locked before turning the knob you screwed everything up - I did that too, and then it took a lot to get it working right again). I sure would not want to be in an emergency situation and not be able to get out ANY of the doors. YOU (THE OWNER) would likely forget how in an emergency, YOUR GUESTS would not have a chance in heck to get out.

    My client did not buy that house, among other things the $300,000 worth of roof tiles (not including labor) were all installed wrong and would have needed replacing (new home, 2 years old, never lived in, used as a model home for the builder).

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    The ICC web site is having trouble with there data base and I can't access the code.

    I thought the requirement was "One of the emergency egress doors shall be readily openable from the side from which egress is to be made without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort."

    Is this a NC thing or am I all wet?

    There has been discussion that since only 1 door is required for egress in a SFR then that is the only door that would have to meet those requirements.

    However the code does not say "only the required egress door".

    If it's a door and it is for egress then it must comply!


  13. #13
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    "all wet"

    Why on earth would you want to trap someone inside at *all but one* egress door?

    EVERY egress door ... needs to be such that one can get to heck out in an emergency without having to try to find a key or have special knowledge about how to open the door - in an emergency situation you will need to get to heck out as soon as possible, and that does not mean standing there struggling to open a door with an unusual operating mechanism.
    Jerry, I might be a little damp but not all wet! Just talked to CEO who looked up the NC Residential 2006 Code. 311.2 Only one exterior egress door is required to be readily openable from the side from which egress is to be made without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort. All interior egress doors are required to be readily openable from the side from which egress is to be made without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort.

    NC Residential 2009 Code requires ALL egress doors (interior and exterior) to be readily openable from the side from which egress is to be made without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort. The 2009 code has been moved to 311.4 and will be enforced beginning on July 1, 2009.

    I have always suggested changing all double barrel dead bolts to single barrel as a safety issue but do not put it in the summary. It is not a code requirement as long as there is one to the exterior that does meet code.
    Soon to change but if built before July 1, 2009, better not put it in the summary in NC!







  14. #14
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    There has been discussion that since only 1 door is required for egress in a SFR then that is the only door that would have to meet those requirements.
    Wayne,

    I am in agreement with you, and the way to respond to the above argument is to state "And IF you ONLY put in ONE DOOR, that that ONE DOOR would need to meet those requirements. And IF you were to put in a SECOND DOOR, that SECOND DOOR would also need to meet those same requirements."

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Wayne,

    I am in agreement with you, and the way to respond to the above argument is to state "And IF you ONLY put in ONE DOOR, that that ONE DOOR would need to meet those requirements. And IF you were to put in a SECOND DOOR, that SECOND DOOR would also need to meet those same requirements."
    Jerry you are a hard case! Does interpretation by AHJ (CEO) mean nothing to you? I told him J. Peck said they all had to comply. He said a peck is three quarters shy of a full load!


  16. #16
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    He said a peck is three quarters shy of a full load!

    Depends on if you wanted a bushel or just a peck.

    Growing up we had a bushel and a half. With my first wife we had a bushel. With my second wife we have a bushel. Guess that's 3-1/2 "full loads"? My daughter has a bushel too. My younger brother ... this could go on forever, ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    The original question was regarding the keyed lock for the entry door from the garage. This door would not be considered an egress door according to the IRC. The required exit door provides access from the habitable areas to the exterior without travel through a garage.
    While a latched deadbolt is the norm in my area, the key system doesn't appear to violate the egress requirements.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Cierocki View Post
    The original question was regarding the keyed lock for the entry door from the garage.
    The original question was if a keyed lock is required there, nothing to do with egress.

    However, you are correct in that door *is not* an egress door, that door goes to another "occupancy", a private garage, as being separate from a dwelling.

    This door would not be considered an egress door according to the IRC. The required exit door provides access from the habitable areas to the exterior without travel through a garage.
    While a latched deadbolt is the norm in my area, the key system doesn't appear to violate the egress requirements.
    Also remember that codes are "minimum" and cover "required" items such as "required egress" and that codes *do not* cover anything else, such as using that as an emergency egress when you are caught between the fire and the garage and your only way out is ... through that door, into the garage, and then outside. Would you bet your life, or at least all of your assets that would NEVER happen?

    Not me.

    So I would point out that a double keyed deadbolt COULD BE hazardous installed in that door. DO NOT have your heirs, assigns and surviving spouses call me - *I* told you *not to do that*.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    Jerry,
    I agree that the original question had nothing to do with egress. I blame Wayne for introducing that element into the discussion. Darn you, Wayne!
    So my question is, how would you rate the that keyed entry door in your inspection report? I'm with you on the problems that could be encountered during an emergency, with locating the key, fumbling with the lock etc. But with the absence of code language prohibiting it, would you write it up as a defect or as a point of information for the buyers? CYA?
    When I see this type of lock, I discuss the issues with the buyers and I rate the door as "fair", citing the reasons we have discussed. If the supposed egress door is keyed, then the rating is "poor"; regardless of the age of the structure.
    Seeing as how the written inspection report is the final record of the inspection, I am always interested in how to make my reports accurate and lawsuit-free.
    I'm sure you'll have some thoughts on the topic.
    Thanks

    Last edited by Ted Cierocki; 06-18-2009 at 08:53 PM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: garage service door lock

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Cierocki View Post
    So my question is, how would you rate the that keyed entry door in your inspection report? I'm with you on the problems that could be encountered during and emergency with locating the key, fumbling with the lock etc. But with the absence of code language prohibiting it, would you write it up as a defect or as a point of information for the buyers?

    Ted,

    As a "home inspector" there is no fine line to stand back from, as a "code inspector" there is.

    However, you did ask about writing it up on a 'home' "inspection report", with the 'home' being implied, right?

    In that case, I wrote them up pretty much as I described it ... I was not one to mince words, when they *could die* I would say that they *could die* under the scenario given.

    I have given examples to my clients where, with something not built as should be in a swimming pool, ended up with 7 dead people trying to save one child. Once you get the 'movie scene' rolling, just go with it.

    If doing a "code inspection", though, there is no prohibition against trying to kill oneself and ones family in the code, so ... you just have to shake your head and walk away, and if the builder is there you just "comment about how stupid and dumb whoever said to install that there was". IF it was the builder's idea, it just may wake him up. IF it was his client's idea, he will immediately tell you 'Hey, I know what you mean, but MY BUYER asked me to put that double keyed deadbolt there, and, yeah, I did explain the hazard' ... which we all know he did not, he just said 'Sure, no problem, that is a $75 upgrade over the passage set.'

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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