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Thread: Window flashing

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    Posts
    1,072

    Default Window flashing

    Have any you guys been pulling vinyl siding panels at roof lines and windows. I have been doing this since the early 90's on homes that do not have a moisture barrier. Until recently builders where allowed to install vinyl siding directly over the framing with no house wrap or barrier of sorts.
    Time after time I find rotted walls. Here is the latest of a ten year home. Oh I am trying a new method and linking to the pictures to save hassle of resizing and uploading here.

    Picasa Web Albums - Mike Schulz - Window flash

    Picasa Web Albums - Mike Schulz - Window flash

    Picasa Web Albums - Mike Schulz - Window flash

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    2018 ASHI InspectionWorld
    Mike Schulz License 393
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Lake Barrington, IL
    Posts
    1,363

    Default Re: Window flashing

    I pull the vinyl siding out at the center butt where the sections overlap. No tools needed. I don't need to see water stains - if the building paper is not there it isn't resistant to water entry and is not installed according to manufacturer specs. I don't need to know more than that.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    leonardo, new jersey
    Posts
    125

    Default Re: Window flashing

    Thats amazing NC recently started WRB's we have similar seasons here in NJ as you, not average temperatures...

    Like you said, until recently they were able not to install a WRB, the damage at the lower right corner is typical failure area even with Stucco. It looks like the windows sealant between the "J" channel and window is failing and you have what you see...water infiltration. If the WRB was installed shingled up under the window flashing, any joint failure or incidental moisture would not cause damage to the OSB sheathing as you see starting.

    Joseph Ehrhardt
    Building Forensic Specialist LLC

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fuquay Varina, NC
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    1,072

    Default Re: Window flashing

    Hi Eric,

    In our area you actually do because the code allowed it even though all manufactures "recommends" it. The key word is recommend because all AHJ says is if they use that word it isn't required. To drive the point home you need pictures like this to explain to clients, builders, realtors or your just pissing in the win. The client of this home said those magic words "well all the homes are that way in this neighborhood".

    I don't know how many homes in your area that doesn't have house wrap but there is countless here and not having evidence of what your claiming leaves you pissing in the wind.

    Mike Schulz License 393
    Affordable Home Inspections
    www.houseinspections.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Lake Barrington, IL
    Posts
    1,363

    Default Re: Window flashing

    Mike, I too have had people say that since the paper is not required that they don't have to install it. But I'll bet that if one were to look into the applicable code there would be a blurb that would state that the exterior shall be resistant to wind and rain. Now the vinyl siding manufacturer's will usual state that their products do not provide such protection. And if you were to check with the APA or wood paneling manufacturers you'd hear the same thing. So the question to the builders, contractors and AHJs is what aspect(s) of the construction satisfies the resistance requirement.

    I also will find where foam sheeting is behind the siding but the joints are not taped. Again it is not resistant to water and the wind (pressure) that can push the water into the walls through the open joints.

    Now this is all academic because I have found that most often those who you are trying to enlighten will continue to argue against you with the "we always have done it this way" / "they're all built this way" responses. So I just point out what I see, raise a question, and then move on. Trying to sway people can generally be fruitless and a waste of my time.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  6. #6
    Bob Tessier's Avatar
    Bob Tessier Guest

    Default Re: Window flashing

    Mike, I am a builder and just got my license to start home inspections here in NH. There was no code reguirement for 'properly' sealing/installing a window. I learned the hard way how important it is. A customer had water coming into the house. Pulling the siding I learned the framer hadn't done the typar and flasing right. Siding was stripped around every window and done right. That sucked. I have done numerous renovations and find that damage is very common, but hidden. Very few people did proper installs 8-10yrs ago. I guess that is the down side to new products. From this experince I check at least one window to see if they are done right and what extent the damage has reached.

    Bob Tessier
    NH Lic #206


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Posts
    885

    Default Re: Window flashing

    I haven't been pulling siding but I agree it sure could be worth it. Easy to carry a siding hook tool. I'll plan to do so where possible in the future. Especially since it is another good way to p-off agents who don't like that kind of thing interfering with a sale! I can hear it now, "I've never seen an inspector do that!"

    The above statements are expressed solely as my opinion and in all probability will conflict with someone else's.
    Stu, Fredericksburg VA

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fuquay Varina, NC
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    1,072

    Default Re: Window flashing

    The VSI instructions use to have this flashing detail in there instructions as well as some manufactures. I keep a copy for informing clients.
    Picasa Web Albums - Mike Schulz - Window flash

    There new instructions removed that detail because barriers are now required. I wrote them an argued that all barriers will not stop water at concentrated areas such as bottoms of window corners but they held there ground. Redundancies in crucial areas don't hurt. I wish I can find the picture of home that had house wrap and the osb was soft under it. The house wrap has a saturation point and this particular home had issues.
    For those of you that would like to check and keep records of any issues you can send that info to:
    David Verbofsky
    Manager
    Product/Install Training
    Ply Gem Siding Group

    He is the one of the members on the board of VSI and states the detail is not needed.

    Mike Schulz License 393
    Affordable Home Inspections
    www.houseinspections.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Lake Barrington, IL
    Posts
    1,363

    Default Re: Window flashing

    I'm convinced that the best protection is a cavity wall. If I had it to do all over again I install our cedar siding over furring strips and 30 lb felt. The hurdle to that would be finding a contractor who'd be able to grasp what the heck I wanted.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

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