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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Parker, CO
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    Default Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    Did this very expensive house last Tue. Found this on the downstairs patio. My ? is: Is this created by moisture from the inside of the collumn or moisture on the outside of the rock? It appears from the second photo that someone has tried to prevent moisture from the top deck.
    Bob

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  2. #2
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    I would report what I see and let someone else figure it out. Once you way what is causing the problem you are on the hook if the repair you specify does not remedy the problem.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Parker, CO
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    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    I would report what I see and let someone else figure it out. Once you way what is causing the problem you are on the hook if the repair you specify does not remedy the problem.
    I keep referring my client to a licensed contractor, in fact one called me today to aks questions about what I saw. I will let the contractor tell him how to fix the problem. All I needed was some general information of the problem. Should there not be flashing on top of those rock pillars? The white stuff is powdery and will rub off with a finger. All the joints look secure without shrinkage. I will ask the question again. Is the moisture coming from behind the rock if you see the powder on the outside of the rock?


  4. #4
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    What is behind the stone?


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    What is behind the stone?
    I have no idea. All five collums are 100% covered with stone.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    so so, California
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    1,769

    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    Hey Bob,
    I purchased 10 pallets of a similar type of stone (coronado stone) to face a retaining wall and some pillars at my house. Anyhow, over half of the boxes had efflorescence on the stones when we opened them. May not be the same with your situation, but I just thought Id mention it.

    The MAZZA INSPECTION GROUP
    www.mazzainspections.com
    Level III Thermo-picture-taker-er...er

  7. #7
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Fuhrmann View Post
    I have no idea. All five collums are 100% covered with stone.
    Then how are you going to recommend a repair when you don't know if it is wood or masonry behind the stone? Or they could be stone all the way through?


  8. #8
    john parry's Avatar
    john parry Guest

    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    http://www.masonryinstitute.org/pdf/612.pdf

    All you need to know...
    From the Masonry Instituteof America


  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Fuhrmann View Post
    Did this very expensive house last Tue. Found this on the downstairs patio. My ? is: Is this created by moisture from the inside of the collumn or moisture on the outside of the rock? It appears from the second photo that someone has tried to prevent moisture from the top deck.
    Bob
    My guess is that the columns are CMU and have the lick and stick faux rock stuck to the CMU. My SWAG is that water is seeping in from the top and has saturated the CMU block and you are now seeing the results. I can see efflorescence on the corner column as well up near the deck area.

    As far as what and how to report it? I would simply report that water appears to be seeping into the columns and this is made evident by the efflorescence on the faux stone. I would then say that over time this could cause problems and that a masonry contractor who is familiar with this type of product and design needs to be contacted for advice and what needs to be done to correct this.

    Bob, what is your location? It helps to know a persons location at times when you are looking for an answer. You might want to add your location to your profile.

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 06-20-2011 at 06:51 AM.
    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  10. #10
    Tony Coelho's Avatar
    Tony Coelho Guest

    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    Bob there doesn't seem to be any spacing btw the deck boards to allow for proper drainage. Water probably is making its way to that column from the slope of the deck.


  11. #11
    john parry's Avatar
    john parry Guest

    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    [quote=Scott Patterson;171142]My guess is that the columns are CMU and have the lick and stick faux rock stuck to the CMU.

    That would have been my guess, as well.
    If that's the case, the water could be coming up from beneath the columns/footers also. Tough to tell w/o digging...


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    [QUOTE=john parry;171146]
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    My guess is that the columns are CMU and have the lick and stick faux rock stuck to the CMU.

    That would have been my guess, as well.
    If that's the case, the water could be coming up from beneath the columns/footers also. Tough to tell w/o digging...
    I don't think it is weeping up from the base. Normally water will not weep through capillary action more than a few feet. It is coming down from the top. It looks like the columns are sitting on a concrete patio /slab/footer in the photo.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    leonardo, new jersey
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    125

    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    I agree with Scott, also what was the disimilar connection above the decking where those columns become the rail corner post? any weep system or flashing visable? or did they install the stone on the decking?

    it does not matter if they stck framed the boxes or CMU with the stone stuck to it, you would want to keep any water infiltration from penetrating from above. With the CMU, it still needs flashing, you would not want freeze /thaw or excessive moisture to get behind or the stone will pop off. As stated above where are you living?

    the deck looks newer so the stone could be releasing the alkalies but from the photo of the connection underneath the decking i would assume theres water infiltration.I need to see more photos.

    I would word the following;

    " due to the observed field conditions, we recomend invasive inspections to determine the cause of the staining under the deck and excessive efflorescence on the deck support columns"

    You may find a EIFS inspector in your state through the Exterior Design Institute web page. One of my specialties is in cladding forensics from single story to high rise buildings. Its a specialty niche where we come in and moisture test or perform invasives where we take some of the wall a part, determine the source of water inflitration, prepare documents with Architects and Engineers and repair the wall, so I need crews for all aspects of the work I do. Theres a major crime scene of failed stucco/ EIFS and brick thru-wall flashing here in Jersey, I cant imagine you guys are not seeing it in your home state.

    Joseph Ehrhardt
    Building Forensic Specialist LLC

  14. #14
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Ehrhardt View Post
    I would word the following;

    " due to the observed field conditions, we recomend invasive inspections to determine the cause of the staining under the deck and excessive efflorescence on the deck support columns"
    That is what I said in post #2....


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Westminster, B. C., Canada
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    165

    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    Hi, ALL 7

    * What Scott & some of the last others have offered...

    That is always a sign of moisture-transfer &

    I'd have to agree from the top (gravity usually wins).

    Signs of sealing @ the top is reactive...


    CHEERS !

    -Glenn Duxbury, CHI

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    70

    Default Re: Efflorescence on Patio Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by john parry View Post
    http://www.masonryinstitute.org/pdf/612.pdf

    All you need to know...
    From the Masonry Instituteof America

    One thing this article does not cover that seems pertinent is the effect that efflorescence has on the structural integrity of the block/brick.

    We know that efflorescence is an indication of water movement through the block (and could be an indicator that spalling may eventually occur or there may be some freezing issues) but does anyone know if the loss of the salts actually weakens it?
    Here in the Pacific NW we've many homes on CMU foundations and/ or piers that have significant efflorescence present but never endure heavy freezing or significant temperature swings. Trying to figure this one out...


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