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  1. #1
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    Default Landing for stairs w/gate

    Looking to see if a landing is required on either side of a gate where it accesses a flight of stairs 3+ risers. Only found this...
    R311.3 Floors and landings at exterior doors. There shall be a landing or floor on each side of each exterior door. The width of each landing shall not be less than the door served. Every landing shall have a minimum dimension of 36 inches....

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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    Marc,

    Looks like no.

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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Marc,

    Looks like no.
    Yea, ...it looks like trying to apply 311.3 might be trying to stretch it. I thought there may be something else. Just looks screwy, no?

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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    R312 Guards, R312.1 Where Required, R312.2 Height & R312.2 Ex.1, R312.3 Opening Limitations & Exceptions; & AG105.2 Outdoor Swimming Pool; California Title 24, Part 2.5

    See: State

    Swinging "gate" appears to be an attempt as a pool enclosure gate (inground body of water in background below). It also appears it cannot swing open completely and obstructs the path of travel, also appears insufficient as to strength, construction and height to guard from above. Frankly appears to be a "baby gate" from a Minnesota based company I've seen product from, which is designed for same (baby & pet gates) and for indoor use only and not sufficient adult guard/pool gates or latches.

    The intermediate landing and topography, above, the pitch/slope of the intermediate landing or step appears beyond tolerance (pitch, slope, continuity), and the lack of guards above and below (open side stair below) appear to be deficient both open irregular topography, exterior open stair, and pool safety code issues.

    Since the surfaces above are higher and not level ground, the baby gate is of insufficient height to serve even that purpose, as a tumbling toddler/child launched from above would not necessarily be stoped by the lower elevation installed baby gate; the Guards are deficient or lacking regarding open side topogoraphy decending stair to pool, baby gate is hazardous and is removable (lifts up off hinge posts) and obstructive catches on step/landing and too low as to be a hazard for adults and is insufficient as to strength, height, etc. openings to latch area and latch vs. top height of guard of gate as a pool enclosure gate.

    Patio slab above pour above appears sloppy, leakage from forms, overspil, not remediated, and poorly floated, questioned base.

    Regarding R311 issues, the gate cannot be fully opened and its presence obstructs the stairway width for path of travel is a hazard as it catches on improper exagerated slope of the extended intermediate stair which is obviously out of 311 standards regarding slope and pitch and further makes a continuity hazard. Without a landing/interuption between stairs the stair/step/riser to the patio slab vs. that of the stair decending to the pool another continuity issue regarding riser height(s) for the overall stairway/exit path from the pool enclosure, etc. for which gates must swing out in the path of exit travel from the pool and have a minimum clear width.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 02-26-2012 at 10:34 AM. Reason: added link to Calif Title 24, Part 2.5 free viewing access.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    Yeah, that can be a real problem when toddlers are "launched" down concrete steps toward a closed gate.

    I don't see why HG thinks that's a baby gate. Hinges aren't visible, and it matches the fence beyond.

    You've probably already noticed other problems, e.g. latch on outside, gate not 4' high (at least, doesn't look like it to me), apparently the bottom clearance would be over 2" when shut, doesn't swing shut and latch on its own. The lack of a landing doesn't seem to be an issue.

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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristi Silber View Post
    Yeah, that can be a real problem when toddlers are "launched" down concrete steps toward a closed gate.

    I don't see why HG thinks that's a baby gate. Hinges aren't visible, and it matches the fence beyond.

    You've probably already noticed other problems, e.g. latch on outside, gate not 4' high (at least, doesn't look like it to me), apparently the bottom clearance would be over 2" when shut, doesn't swing shut and latch on its own. The lack of a landing doesn't seem to be an issue.
    The pool barrier stuff I got / get it...It just seems odd to have a gate swing over a stair and not a landing...IMO

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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    The pool barrier stuff I got / get it...It just seems odd to have a gate swing over a stair and not a landing...IMO
    Marc,

    I must be missing something in that photo because the gate does swing over the landing and not the stair ... well, except for part of that top tread, that is.

    The gate would be treated as a door, and the door is not allowed to swing out over a stair unless there was a landing present under where the door swings out (there is in that photo).

    Regarding pool barrier, yeah, looks like there might be several things, but I'd have to review the California pool barrier requirements to see what they state.

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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    But at least it does swing over the landing, and not over the stair - now that would be really awkward!

    Do not think of knocking out another person's brains because he differs in opinion from you. It would be as rational to knock yourself on the head because you differ from yourself ten years ago.
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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Marc,

    I must be missing something in that photo because the gate does swing over the landing and not the stair ... well, except for part of that top tread, that is.

    The gate would be treated as a door, and the door is not allowed to swing out over a stair unless there was a landing present under where the door swings out (there is in that photo).

    Regarding pool barrier, yeah, looks like there might be several things, but I'd have to review the California pool barrier requirements to see what they state.
    Yes, you are correct and I should have been a little more clear. I mean the gate latches over a stair and not over a landing.

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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    Yes, you are correct and I should have been a little more clear. I mean the gate latches over a stair and not over a landing.
    Aye, matey ... you are referring to the same thing I referred to here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    ... well, except for part of that top tread, ...
    Yeah, that ain't allowed, which is why I made mention of it.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    California Building Code:
    12.10.216 Swimming pool enclosures amendment.
    Section 3109—Swimming Pool Enclosures and Safety Devices—of the California Building Code is hereby deleted in its entirety and replaced with Section 12.10.216 to read as follows:
    (a) Scope. The provisions of this Section shall apply to the design and construction of barriers and entrapment avoidance devices for swimming pools, spas and hot tubs located on the premises of Group R, Division 3 Occupancies.
    (1) Application to Facilities Regulated by Department of Social Services. This Section does not apply to any facility regulated by the State Department of Social Services even if the facility is also used as a private residence of the operator. Pool safety in those facilities shall be regulated pursuant to regulations adopted by the State Department of Social Services.
    (b) Definitions. For the purpose of this Section, certain terms, words and phrases are defined as follows:
    Aboveground/On-Ground Pool. See definition of “Swimming Pool.”
    Approved Safety Pool Cover. A manually or power-operated safety pool cover that meets all of the performance standards of the ASTM, in compliance with Standard F 1346-91.
    ANSI. American National Standards Institute.
    ASME. The American Society of Mechanical Engineers.
    ASTM. The American Society for Testing and Materials.
    Barrier. A fence, wall, building wall or combination thereof that completely surrounds the swimming pool and obstructs access to the swimming pool.
    Exit Alarm. A device or devices that make audible, continuous alarm sounds when any door or window that permits access from a residence to the pool area, that is without any intervening barrier, is opened or is left ajar.
    Grade. The underlying surface, such as earth or a walking surface.
    Hot Tub. See definition of “Spa, Nonself-Contained” and “Spa, Self-Contained.”
    In-ground Pool. See definition of “Swimming Pool.”
    Separation Fence. A barrier that separates all doors of a dwelling unit with direct access to a swimming pool from the swimming pool.
    Spa, Nonself-Contained. A hydromassage pool or tub for recreational or therapeutic use, not located in health-care facilities, designed for immersion of users and usually having a filter, heater and motor-driven blower. It may be installed indoors or outdoors, on the ground or on a supporting structure, or in the ground or in a supporting structure. A nonself-contained spa is intended for recreational bathing and contains water over 18 inches (457 mm) deep.
    Spa, Self-Contained. A continuous-duty appliance in which all control, water-heating and water-circulating equipment is an integral part of the product, located entirely under the spa skirt. A self-contained spa is intended for recreational bathing and contains water over 18 inches (457 mm) deep.
    Swimming Pool. Any structure intended for swimming or recreational bathing that contains water over 18 inches (457 mm) deep. This includes in-ground, aboveground and on-ground swimming pools, and fixed-in-place wading pools.
    Swimming Pool, Indoor. A swimming pool that is totally contained within a residential structure and surrounded on all four sides by walls of said structure.
    Swimming Pool, Outdoor. Any swimming pool that is not an indoor pool.
    (c) Barrier Requirements for Outdoor Swimming Pools. An outdoor swimming pool shall be provided with a barrier that shall be installed, inspected and approved prior to plastering or filling with water. The barrier shall comply with the following:
    (1) Height of Barrier. The top of the barrier shall be at least 60 inches (1524 mm) above grade measured on the side of the barrier that faces away from the swimming pool.
    (2) Vertical Clearance. The maximum vertical clearance between grade and the bottom of the barrier shall be 2 inches (51 mm) measured on the side of the barrier that faces away from the swimming pool.
    (3) Horizontal Members. When barriers have horizontal members spaced less than 45 inches (1143 mm) apart, measured between the tops, the horizontal members shall be placed on the pool side of the barrier.
    (4) Decorative Design Work. Any decorative design work on the side away from the swimming pool, such as protrusions, indentations, cutouts or other physical characteristics, that could serve as handholds or footholds, which renders the barrier easily climbable, is prohibited.
    (5) Openings. Openings in the barrier shall not allow passage of a 1 3/4-inch-diameter (44.5 mm) sphere, except in the following circumstances:
    (A) When vertical spacing between such openings is 45 inches (1143 mm) or more, the opening size may be increased such that the passage of a 4-inch-diameter (102 mm) sphere is not allowed; or
    (B) For fencing composed of vertical and horizontal members, the spacing between vertical members may be increased up to 4 inches (102 mm) when the distance between the tops of horizontal members is 45 inches (1143 mm) or more.
    (6) Gage of Chain Link Fence. Chain link fences used as the barrier shall not be less than 11 gage.
    (7) Mesh Size of Chain Link Fence. Maximum mesh size for chain link fences shall be a 2.25 inch square (57 mm square) unless the fence is provided with slats fastened at the top or the bottom which reduce the openings to no more than 1.75 inches (44 mm).
    (8) Access gates. Access gates shall comply with the requirements of subsections 12.10.216(c)(1) through 12.10.216(c)(7) in addition to the following:
    (A) Pedestrian access gates shall be self-closing and have a self-latching device;
    (B) Where the release mechanism of the self-latching device is located less than 60 inches (1524 mm) from the bottom of the gate:
    (i) The release mechanism shall be located on the pool side of the barrier at least 3 inches (76 mm) below the top of the gate, and
    (ii) The gate and barrier shall have no opening greater than 1/2 inch (12.7 mm) within 18 inches (457) of the release mechanism;
    (C) Pedestrian gates shall swing away from the pool;
    (D) Any gates other than pedestrian access gates shall be equipped with lockable hardware or padlocks and shall remain locked at all times when not in use.
    (9) Wall as Part of Barrier. Where a wall of a Group R, Division 3 Occupancy dwelling unit serves as part of the barrier and contains door or window openings between the dwelling unit and the outdoor swimming pool that provide direct access to the pool, a separation fence meeting the requirements of subsections 12.10.216(a) through 12.10.216(c)(8) shall be provided, except when the Building Official approves one of the following alternatives:
    (A) Self-closing and self-latching devices installed on all doors with direct access to the pool with the release mechanism located a minimum of 60 inches (1524 mm) above the floor; or
    (B) An exit alarm installed on all doors and windows with direct access to the pool. The alarm shall sound continuously within seven seconds after the door or window and its screen, if present, are opened, and be capable of providing a sound pressure level of not less than 85 dBA when measured indoors at 10 feet (3048 mm). The alarm shall automatically reset under all conditions. The alarm system shall be equipped with a manual means, such as a touchpad or switch, to temporarily deactivate the alarm for a single opening. Such deactivation shall last no longer than 15 seconds. The deactivation switch shall be located at least 54 inches (1372 mm) above the threshold of the door or window. Exit alarms may be battery operated or may be connected to the electrical wiring of the building; or
    (C) Other means of protection, such as an approved safety pool cover, may be acceptable so long as the degree of protection afforded is not less than that afforded by any of the devices described above.
    (10) Aboveground Pool as Part of Barrier. Where an aboveground pool structure is used as a barrier or where the barrier is mounted on top of the pool structure, and the means of access is a ladder or steps, then:
    (A) The ladder or steps shall be capable of being secured, locked or removed to prevent access; or
    (B) The ladder or steps shall be a barrier that meets the requirements of subsections 12.10.216(c)(1) through 12.10.216(c)(8).
    (C) When the ladder or steps are secured, locked or removed, any openings created shall be protected by a barrier complying with subsections 12.10.216(c)(1) through 12.10.216(c)(8).
    (d) Barrier Requirements for Indoor Swimming Pools. For an indoor swimming pool, protection shall comply with the requirements of subsection 12.10.216(c)(9).
    (e) Barrier Requirements for Spas and Hot Tubs. For a nonself-contained and self-contained spa or hot tub, protection shall comply with the requirements of subsection (c), except in the following circumstance:
    (1) A self-contained spa or hot tub equipped with a listed safety cover.
    (f) Entrapment Avoidance. Whenever a building permit is issued for the construction of a new swimming pool or spa, the pool or spa shall meet all of the following requirements:
    (1) Suction outlet. The suction outlet of the pool or spa for which the permit is issued shall be equipped to provide circulation throughout the pool or spa, to include:
    (A) The swimming pool or spa shall have at least two circulation drains per pump that shall be hydraulically balanced and symmetrically plumbed through one or more “T” fittings, and that are separated by a distance of at least three feet in any dimension between the drains;
    (B) Suction outlets that are less than 12 inches (306 mm) across shall be covered with anti-entrapment grates, as specified in the ASME/ANSI Standard A 112.19.8, that cannot be removed except with the use of tools. Slots or openings in the grates or similar protective devices shall be of a shape, area, and arrangement that would prevent physical entrapment and would not pose any suction hazard to bathers.
    (B) Atmospheric Vacuum Relief System. All pool and spa single- or multiple-outlet circulation systems shall be equipped with an atmospheric vacuum relief should grate covers located therein become missing or broken. Such vacuum relief systems shall include at least one approved or engineered method of the type specified herein, as follows:
    (A) Safety vacuum release systems conforming to ASME A 112.19.17; or
    (B) Approved gravity drainage system.
    (3) Pool Cleaner Fittings. Where provided, vacuum or pressure cleaner fitting(s) shall be located in an accessible position(s) at least 6 inches (152 mm) and not greater than 12 inches (305 mm) below the minimum operational water level or as an attachment to the skimmer(s).
    (4) Additional Backup Safety System. Any backup safety system that an owner of a new swimming pool or spa may choose to install in addition to the requirements set forth in these subsections shall meet the standards as published in the document, “Guidelines for Entrapment Hazards: Making Pools and Spas Safer,” Publication Number 363, March 2005, United States Consumer Product Safety Commission.
    (5) Upgrading Required. Whenever a building permit is issued for the remodel or modification of an existing swimming pool, spa or hot tub, the permit shall require that the suction outlet of the existing swimming pool, spa or hot tub be upgraded so as to be equipped with an anti-entrapment cover meeting current standards of the ASTM or the ASME.
    (g) Applicability of Provisions.
    (1) If Built or Erected Prior to August 14, 1992. Any property owner of a residential pool, spa or hot tub built or erected prior to August 14, 1992 shall:
    (A) Comply with the current barrier regulations found in this Section, including, but not limited to, obtaining any required permits;
    (B) The barrier shall be maintained in compliant condition;
    (C) Prior to the sale of residential property containing a swimming pool, spa or hot tub, the owner shall provide the buyer with a written certification, prepared by the Building Official or a certified home inspector, of compliance with the barrier requirements of this Section.
    2. If Built or Erected On or After August 14, 1992. Any property owner of a residential pool, spa or hot tub built or erected on or after August 14, 1992 with a valid finaled building permit shall:
    (A) Maintain the pool, spa or hot tub in compliance with the Code requirements in effect when constructed or erected with the exception of subsection 12.10.216(g)(2)(B);
    (B) Notwithstanding its compliance with the Code requirements in effect when constructed or erected, the owner of a residential swimming pool without a barrier between the residence and the pool shall comply with the barrier regulations in effect on January 1, 2007 including, but not limited to, obtaining any required permits;
    (C) Prior to the sale of residential property containing a swimming pool, spa or hot tub, the owner shall provide the buyer with a written certification, prepared by the Building Official or a certified home inspector, of compliance with the barrier requirements in effect when constructed or erected, with the exception of complying with subsection 12.10.216(g)(2)(B) if there is no barrier between the residence and the pool. (Ord. 4894 § 2 (part), 11/20/07)

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    JM, is that a 2012 amendment?

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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    No, but you may want to check Section #3118 B.1 of the Enclosure of Pool Areas in the 2007 CBC.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    Why go back in time, when there's been so much since 209?

    Marc, it isn't a "landing" if its less than 36" long "in the path of travel".

    As the baby/pet gate is mounted over the next lowest tread, AND it cannot extend open fully due to the faulty slope AND its length - it suggests that the pictured overly sloped, non-continuity compliant "step" is not a landing. The riser to the sad patio slab with spill over trip hazard appears uneven and significantly less of a rise than those of the stairs at and below the gate.

    I recognize the hardware, esp. the extra piece sitting between the guards to the right above the date code on your photo. See the same in baby-pet gates, collapsable/expandable play-yards, and cribs since recalled.

    I referenced the Eff. Jan 1, 2012 Codes, since it is obvious the area is not completed to code standards which predate 2007 and subsequent.


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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    Marc

    Bottom line, the dam gate is improperly installed and poses a hazard to foot traffic plus a child's easy access to a swimming pool.

    Inform client to get it fixed asap!

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Landing for stairs w/gate

    Exactly I agree withy Jerry it is a hazard and needs to be fixed.


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