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  1. #1
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    Default patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    I think this patio cover is not enough attachment. isn't it?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Personally, I wouldn't ignore it as an inspector.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  3. #3
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    What can I tell if my client want to know how to correct this problem?
    - minimum way


  4. #4
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Im View Post
    What can I tell if my client want to know how to correct this problem?
    - minimum way
    Remove.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Im View Post
    What can I tell if my client want to know how to correct this problem?
    - minimum way

    Demo & Replace....


  6. #6
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Im View Post
    What can I tell if my client want to know how to correct this problem?
    - minimum way
    I would install a combination of beams/columns to support the structure so that it is not utilizing the fascia for support.

    Matt Kiefer, Columbus Advanced Inspections
    Home Inspection Columbus Ohio
    Radon Testing Columbus Ohio

  7. #7
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    I would build a pile of kindling around each post.

    That was a joke. That roof is also a joke. There is no practical way for a novice to make it into something acceptable.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  8. #8
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    What's wrong with the roof?


  9. #9
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    Utah
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    While the proper structural repair method is obvious, any advice for repair should come from a PE. Any advice you may offer, would come back to you when the wind tore the patio roof off afterward.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Typical amateur, home-owner "junk" workmanship. Even though snow loads should never be a problem, the next good wind storm could carry things into the next zipcode.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Whatís wrong with the roof? In my opinion, based on WI code, and it being a flat roof, (THIS IS NOT A FIX) is as follows:

    1- You do not have any type of hangers at the soffit connection, toe nailing would not be enough.

    2- The soffit itself probably cannot hold the extra weight of the roof. Remember, the rafters of the homeís roof probably have seat cuts and the overhanging portion is probably a 1/3 to a 1/2 weaker. You might have 2x10 rafters on the home, but after the seat cut you might have a 2x6 lumber overhang, strength wise. This is a very weak connection point.

    3- The 3rd rafter in looks to being showing signs of deterioration, based on the paint cracks.

    4- You have two patio rafters (4&5) being supported by a single header connected to a single rafter on each side (Rafter 3 and 6), as a minimum, and without knowing the span, you would have a double header connected to double rafters, and all connections made with some type of fastener.

    5- If these are 2x8ís, on the patio, you might be pushing the span rating of about 12 feet, with a quick calc of snow load 30, dead load 10, and 24Ē o.c. spacing.

    6- Type of wood used??? Since it is outdoors is it treated, or naturally decay resistant (cedar/redwood)? If itís good old pine thatís been painted, just wait.

    Iím sure itís one of those it looks fine and we havenít had any problems, but it is a time issue, it will fail and pull apart, it just takes time.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    This is a fairly common detail for patio covers and trellises where there is no snow loading. I suggest the following fixes:
    1. Provide a positive connection between the facia and the rafter tail with framing clips or lag screws through the facia into the end grain of the tail,
    2. Provide joist hangers for the trellis rafters attachment to the facia,
    3. Add a second member to the 2x that is headed out to support rafters at the chimney and framing anchors/joist hangers for attachment.
    4. Preservative treated or decay resistant lumber is often required for exposed wood, so check with the local building department.


    Thom Huggett, PE, SE, CBO

  13. #13
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Thanks, Thom
    I think that's very reasonable way here in southern California


  14. #14
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom Huggett View Post
    .

    I suggest the following fixes Add a second member to the 2x that is headed out to support rafters at the chimney and framing anchors/joist hangers for attachment
    .
    You sure you want to puncture and add load to the outside of a prefab chimney chase covered with EIFS.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    You sure you want to puncture and add load to the outside of a prefab chimney chase covered with EIFS.
    .
    It looks to me that there is no support from the chimney, but that the support is "headed off" around the chimney. There is just a single member there now, and I propose adding a doubler to it, not attached to the chimney, but to the rafters that attach to the facia. No support needs to come from the chimney wall.

    Thom Huggett, PE, SE, CBO

  16. #16
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom Huggett View Post
    This is a fairly common detail for patio covers and trellises where there is no snow loading. I suggest the following fixes:
    1. Provide a positive connection between the facia and the rafter tail with framing clips or lag screws through the facia into the end grain of the tail,
    2. Provide joist hangers for the trellis rafters attachment to the facia,
    3. Add a second member to the 2x that is headed out to support rafters at the chimney and framing anchors/joist hangers for attachment.
    4. Preservative treated or decay resistant lumber is often required for exposed wood, so check with the local building department.
    A good puff of wind will rip it all away.
    *along with part of the roof.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    A good puff of wind will rip it all away.
    *along with part of the roof.
    .
    Perhaps I should qualify that this is how we do it in non-snow, low wind zone areas in California. Also, post to beam and post to slab connections should be by metal "Simpson" hardware.

    Thom Huggett, PE, SE, CBO

  18. #18
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom Huggett View Post
    Perhaps I should qualify that this is how we do it in non-snow, low wind zone areas in California. Also, post to beam and post to slab connections should be by metal "Simpson" hardware.
    .
    That makes a lot more sense.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    the metal roofing will not drain properly unless the ribs are parallel with the roof slope.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by brian schmitt View Post
    the metal roofing will not drain properly unless the ribs are parallel with the roof slope.
    I don't foresee that being a problem.
    The annual average precipitation at Irvine is 13.87 Inches

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    I don't foresee that being a problem.
    The annual average precipitation at Irvine is 13.87 Inches
    thanks billy! what was i thinking?


  22. #22
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    I don't foresee that being a problem.
    The annual average precipitation at Irvine is 13.87 Inches
    Trouble is, it can all come in one or two major storms a year.

    Still a good reason to have the ribs parallel to the roof slope. A good gulley-washer will want to apply extreme lateral loads to the entire roof structure--definitely something it doesn't need in view of its fragile condition.


  23. #23
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by BridgeMan View Post
    Trouble is, it can all come in one or two major storms a year.

    Still a good reason to have the ribs parallel to the roof slope. A good gulley-washer will want to apply extreme lateral loads to the entire roof structure--definitely something it doesn't need in view of its fragile condition.
    Please use the photo to expand on how / where these extreme lateral loads would be.
    * will the water jump the gap?

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  24. #24
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    Houston, TX
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    At the very best this is a poorly done job. Nothing should be hung from a fascia board and the likelihood that there is enough slope on this roof is nil. Also, the rafters should have had horizontal lath and the metal should have been installed perpendicular to the fascia so it can drain. Improper spans, improper material for the spans and improper support is all we need to know. I would never advise someone on a fix, just simply advise that it improper and unlikely to stand under any inclement weather. You can't fix stupid.


  25. #25
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    Remove.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Hagarty View Post
    Demo & Replace....
    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    I would build a pile of kindling around each post.

    That was a joke. That roof is also a joke. There is no practical way for a novice to make it into something acceptable.
    Quote Originally Posted by BridgeMan View Post
    Typical amateur, home-owner "junk" workmanship. Even though snow loads should never be a problem, the next good wind storm could carry things into the next zipcode.
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    A good puff of wind will rip it all away.
    *along with part of the roof.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Llewel Walters View Post
    At the very best this is a poorly done job. Nothing should be hung from a fascia board and the likelihood that there is enough slope on this roof is nil. Also, the rafters should have had horizontal lath and the metal should have been installed perpendicular to the fascia so it can drain. Improper spans, improper material for the spans and improper support is all we need to know. I would never advise someone on a fix, just simply advise that it improper and unlikely to stand under any inclement weather. You can't fix stupid.
    .
    Thanks Llewel,
    * anything else ?
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    Please use the photo to expand on how / where these extreme lateral loads would be.
    * will the water jump the gap?
    Billy, you need to get out more. I've seen torrential downpours flowing off a roof in sheets. And, funny thing, it never wants to slow down to make the vertical drop into such a gap or often even the rain gutters (especially when accompanied by high winds). Rather, its momentum will easily enable it to clear the gap and exert forces on the roof panels.

    I did FEMA inspections on several houses in Albuquerque after a hefty down-pour some years ago. I remember one homeowner who just couldn't understand how water flowing into his kitchen (after it first broke the sliding patio doors) had managed to pick up his double-door refrigerator and move it across the entire room. That same storm also carried a few of our (NMDOT) box culvert slabs several miles downstream.


  27. #27
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by BridgeMan View Post
    Billy, you need to get out more. I've seen torrential downpours flowing off a roof in sheets. And, funny thing, it never wants to slow down to make the vertical drop into such a gap or often even the rain gutters (especially when accompanied by high winds). Rather, its momentum will easily enable it to clear the gap and exert forces on the roof panels.

    I did FEMA inspections on several houses in Albuquerque after a hefty down-pour some years ago. I remember one homeowner who just couldn't understand how water flowing into his kitchen (after it first broke the sliding patio doors) had managed to pick up his double-door refrigerator and move it across the entire room. That same storm also carried a few of our (NMDOT) box culvert slabs several miles downstream.
    No thanks I'll stay in.

    If it's a storm of this magnitude the direction of run in a few pieces of corrugated tin will not help. ( Looks like a 6 inch gap.)

    I advised to remove the patio cover.

    Thom advises a low wind zone repair.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    If it's a storm of this magnitude the direction of run in a few pieces of corrugated tin will not help. ( Looks like a 6 inch gap.)

    I advised to remove the patio cover.
    Down here in Flahda ... that would be a 'self-removing cover' as the first high winds in a 'high wind event' would do just that.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  29. #29
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Down here in Flahda ... that would be a 'self-removing cover' as the first high winds in a 'high wind event' would do just that.
    .
    Ah the Countries of Kahlifoania and Flahda.

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  30. #30
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    If that's REALLY a chimney, its been (and following Thom's suggestion would still be) "enclosed".

    Which calls into question the clearances on the other sides, which would likely require remediation (increased clearances for enclosed vs. unenclosed).

    That's the sticking point and deal/budget breaker for most such projects in California - hence the hack, unpermitted, DIY work - for pergolas, patio covers, breeze-ways, etc. and the one that gets them in the most trouble (permit/non-permit orders from the B.O. or SFM, fire concerns, losing grandfather status of a fireplace, and loss/cancellation of home owner's insurance, and expensive overlay security insurance via the mortgage servicer).


  31. #31
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    Default Re: patio cover attached to fascia looks unsound

    Could use a ledger, attached to the structure. Looks similar to a deck ledger.

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