Thread: Seen one of these?

Anyone know what this is?

Dryer exhaust. There is a foam ball sits on the opening over which is the external cover. When the dryer is exhausting the ball floats. When the dryer is off the ball drops onto the opening to stop cold air entry.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Dryer exhaust. There is a foam ball sits on the opening over which is the external cover. When the dryer is exhausting the ball floats. When the dryer is off the ball drops onto the opening to stop cold air entry.

Ray, I am not doubting you, but would like some clarification.

If this is for dryer exhaust: I don't see any exhaust vents, where (how) does the blown air escape? And, where does the lint go? I don't see any build up of lint.

Thanks Ray, I guess they aren't using it. Dryer is venting into the garage and has caused all the taping to peel off the walls and ceiling.

We had one of these in our last house; it worked great to keep the cold air from coming in through the open dryer vent. Never had a problem with clogging, and exterior lint buildup was taken care of by the fact that the cap was on the windy side of the house.

Originally Posted by Steven Turetsky

Ray, I am not doubting you, but would like some clarification.

If this is for dryer exhaust: I don't see any exhaust vents, where (how) does the blown air escape? And, where does the lint go? I don't see any build up of lint.

Picture a coffee can suspended upside down over a vertical 3 inch PVC pipe. Air and lint travel up and over the edge, down the sides.

Deflect-O® Ultra Seal Dryer Vent (DVC) - Vent Kits & Hoods - Ace Hardware

Originally Posted by wayne soper

Thanks Ray, I guess they aren't using it. Dryer is venting into the garage and has caused all the taping to peel off the walls and ceiling.

Wane,

First, the clothes dryer is not allowed to discharge (vent) into the garage.

Second, those are not allowed to be use on the discharge from a clothes dryer exhaust duct.

Nonetheless, manufacturers are allowed to make those devices, stores are allowed to stock and sell those devices, and people are allowed to buy those devices ... the problem is this - people are not allowed to install those devices.

Just like the other devices and components which are allowed to be made, sold, and bought, just not allowed to be installed or used. Way to go for the American capitalism system! Doesn't that just make your heart pound proud? Yeah, right ...

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Second, those are not allowed to be use on the discharge from a clothes dryer exhaust duct.

Nonetheless, manufacturers are allowed to make those devices, stores are allowed to stock and sell those devices, and people are allowed to buy those devices ... the problem is this - people are not allowed to install those devices.

Just like the other devices and components which are allowed to be made, sold, and bought, just not allowed to be installed or used. Way to go for the American capitalism system! Doesn't that just make your heart pound proud? Yeah, right ...

Jerry,
I didn't know these weren't allowed... Can you cite a source to show that? (I'd also love to see a citation regarding flex pipe in sink drains... See those WAY too often!)

Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson

(I'd also love to see a citation regarding flex pipe in sink drains... See those WAY too often!)

2009 IBC 1002.2 https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code...c.ipc.2009.pdf

The Great OZ shall have to answer the " Contraption Question."

Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson

I didn't know these weren't allowed... Can you cite a source to show that?

From the 2012 IRC: (underlining and bold are mine)
- M1502.3 Duct termination. Exhaust ducts shall terminate on the outside of the building. Exhaust duct terminations shall be in accordance with the dryer manufacturer's installation instructions. If the manufacturer's instructions do not specify a termination location, the exhaust duct shall terminate not less than 3 feet (914 mm) in any direction from openings into buildings. Exhaust duct terminations shall be equipped with a backdraft damper. Screens shall not be installed at the duct termination.
- M1502.4 Dryer exhaust ducts. Dryer exhaust ducts shall conform to the requirements of Sections M1502.4.1 through M1502.4.6.
- - M1502.4.1 Material and size. Exhaust ducts shall have a smooth interior finish and shall be constructed of metal a minimum 0.016-inch (0.4 mm) thick. The exhaust duct size shall be 4 inches (102 mm) nominal in diameter.
- - M1502.4.2 Duct installation. Exhaust ducts shall be supported at 4 foot (1219 mm) intervals and secured in place. The insert end of the duct shall extend into the adjoining duct or fitting in the direction of airflow. Ducts shall not be joined with screws or similar fasteners that protrude into the inside of the duct.
- - M1502.4.3 Transition duct. Transition ducts used to connect the dryer to the exhaust duct system shall be a single length that is listed and labeled in accordance with UL 2158A. Transition ducts shall be a maximum of 8 feet (2438 mm) in length. Transition ducts shall not be concealed within construction.
- - M1502.4.4 Duct length. The maximum allowable exhaust duct length shall be determined by one of the methods specified in Section M1502.4.4.1 or M1502.4.4.2.
- - - M1502.4.4.1 Specified length. The maximum length of the exhaust duct shall be 25 feet (7620 mm) from the connection to the transition duct from the dryer to the outlet terminal. Where fittings are used, the maximum length of the exhaust duct shall be reduced in accordance with Table M1502.4.4.1.
- - - - TABLE M1502.4.4.1 DRYER EXHAUST DUCT FITTING EQUIVALENT LENGTH
(table was here)
- - - M1502.4.4.2 Manufacturer's instructions. The size and maximum length of the exhaust duct shall be determined by the dryer manufacturer's installation instructions. The code official shall be provided with a copy of the installation instructions for the make and model of the dryer at the concealment inspection. In the absence of fitting equivalent length calculations from the clothes dryer manufacturer, Table M1502.4.4.1 shall be used.
- - M1502.4.5 Length identification. Where the exhaust duct is concealed within the building construction, the equivalent length of the exhaust duct shall be identified on a permanent label or tag. The label or tag shall be located within 6 feet (1829 mm) of the exhaust duct connection.
- - M1502.4.6 Exhaust duct required. Where space for a clothes dryer is provided, an exhaust duct system shall be installed. Where the clothes dryer is not installed at the time of occupancy the exhaust duct shall be capped or plugged in the space in which it originates and identified and marked "future use."
- - - Exception: Where a listed condensing clothes dryer is installed prior to occupancy of the structure.

And, as always (and as stated in the above) "manufacturer's installation instructions" take precedence (unless the code is more restrictive, which seldom happens).

(I'd also love to see a citation regarding flex pipe in sink drains... See those WAY too often!)[/QUOTE]

- P2608.2 Installation of materials. All materials used shall be installed in strict accordance with the standards under which the materials are accepted and approved. In the absence of such installation procedures, the manufacturer's installation instructions shall be followed. Where the requirements of referenced standards or manufacturer's installation instructions do not conform to the minimum provisions of this code, the provisions of this code shall apply.

- P3201.1 Design of traps. Traps shall be of standard design, shall have smooth uniform internal waterways, shall be self-cleaning and shall not have interior partitions except where integral with the fixture. Traps shall be constructed of lead, cast iron, cast or drawn brass or approved plastic. Tubular brass traps shall be not less than No. 20 gage (0.8 mm) thickness. Solid connections, slip joints and couplings are permitted to be used on the trap inlet, trap outlet, or within the trap seal. Slip joints shall be accessible.

- P3002.3.1 Drainage. Drainage fittings shall have a smooth interior waterway of the same diameter as the piping served. All fittings shall conform to the type of pipe used. Drainage fittings shall have no ledges, shoulders or reductions which can retard or obstruct drainage flow in the piping. Threaded drainage pipe fittings shall be of the recessed drainage type, black or galvanized. Drainage fittings shall be designed to maintain one-fourth unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) grade.

Those flexible sink drains do not have "smooth uniform internal waterways" and are obviously (if you have ever removed one and looked inside it) not "self-cleaning" with all the crud which builds up within those pleated corrugation "ledges, shoulders, or reductions".

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

reductions".

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

Oh How We've Tried!

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

Oh How We've Tried!

Sooooo ... you admit that you are quite trying ... ???

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Sooooo ... you admit that you are quite trying ... ???

I Admit Nothing--Nothing!

This is a HEARTLAND 21000 Dryer Vent Closure. I have one and recommend it to anyone. Here are the instructions, and manufacturer identification/ contact info:
http://qo9x6.3gaeb.servertrust.com/v...v-instruct.pdf

The manufacturer chooses to treat a well-fitting through-wall extension as an accessory, and the accessory is not offered when sold as by Amazon. The failure to attach here may be related to this missing part. The through-wall piece should be permanently attached to the outdoor elbow, as with sealed threads. Leaky attachment can rot the wall, and that is likely with a jammed-in make-do part.

I have advised the manufacturer they have a dangerous policy. Here, I think they have some resulting bad press. I will link the manufacturer to this discussion.

Originally Posted by Phillip Norman

This is a HEARTLAND 21000 Dryer Vent Closure. I have one and recommend it to anyone. Here are the instructions, and manufacturer identification/ contact info:
http://qo9x6.3gaeb.servertrust.com/v...v-instruct.pdf

THAT IS NOT AN APPROVED exhaust termination - not sure why you would choose to link yourself to it, recommend it, then denounce the manufacturer and their policies ... if it is that bad, why on earth would you recommend it, and if it is that good, why on earth would you degrade it???

Nonetheless, though, I have not seen one manufacturer refer to ANYTHING remotely like that in their installation instructions. What is the effective length that adds to the dryer vent length? What effect does that have on and already 40 foot long dryer vent.

Add to that is the plastic extension for thicker walls - PLASTIC is not allowed for that!

Crimeny, I find it hard to believe you would actually recommend something like that.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

From the 2012 IRC: (underlining and bold are mine)
- M1502.3 Duct termination. Exhaust ducts shall terminate on the outside of the building. Exhaust duct terminations shall be in accordance with the dryer manufacturer's installation instructions. If the manufacturer's instructions do not specify a termination location, the exhaust duct shall terminate not less than 3 feet (914 mm) in any direction from openings into buildings. Exhaust duct terminations shall be equipped with a backdraft damper. Screens shall not be installed at the duct termination.
- M1502.4 Dryer exhaust ducts. Dryer exhaust ducts shall conform to the requirements of Sections M1502.4.1 through M1502.4.6.
- - M1502.4.1 Material and size. Exhaust ducts shall have a smooth interior finish and shall be constructed of metal a minimum 0.016-inch (0.4 mm) thick. The exhaust duct size shall be 4 inches (102 mm) nominal in diameter.
- - M1502.4.2 Duct installation. Exhaust ducts shall be supported at 4 foot (1219 mm) intervals and secured in place. The insert end of the duct shall extend into the adjoining duct or fitting in the direction of airflow. Ducts shall not be joined with screws or similar fasteners that protrude into the inside of the duct.

Seems to me that a "duct" and a "duct termination" are two different things, and are addressed in two separate subsections. The former is required to comply with the above specs, the latter need only comply with the manufacturer's instructions, and include a backdraft damper.

Originally Posted by M3 Pete

Seems to me that a "duct" and a "duct termination" are two different things, and are addressed in two separate subsections. The former is required to comply with the above specs, the latter need only comply with the manufacturer's instructions, and include a backdraft damper.

And that extender "duct" through the wall is "plastic" and does not meet the requirements for "ducts".

Regarding the "termination" itself, I have yet to see any manufacturer show one in their installation installation instructions, yet the installation instructions (most of them) will show the standard and approved "terminations" (exhaust hoods) and their effect on allowable duct length as some exhaust hoods reduce the allowable length of duct versus other exhaust hoods. If that "contraption" is acceptable by a manufacturer I am sure that the effect on duct length will be quite dramatic (in a negative way)

Originally Posted by Phillip Norman

This is a HEARTLAND 21000 Dryer Vent Closure. I have one and recommend it to anyone. Here are the instructions, and manufacturer identification/ contact info:
http://qo9x6.3gaeb.servertrust.com/v...v-instruct.pdf

The manufacturer chooses to treat a well-fitting through-wall extension as an accessory, and the accessory is not offered when sold as by Amazon. The failure to attach here may be related to this missing part. The through-wall piece should be permanently attached to the outdoor elbow, as with sealed threads. Leaky attachment can rot the wall, and that is likely with a jammed-in make-do part.

I have advised the manufacturer they have a dangerous policy. Here, I think they have some resulting bad press. I will link the manufacturer to this discussion.

There is nothing on the mfg website and nothing in their installation manual, user manual, or package, which identifies this is a listed item.

The reply to my post of 4-30-2013 was conversation-stopping meanness, not characteristic of this site. On this day, I am obliged to push a productive conversation, where I contributed to amazon.com conversation here:
HEARTLAND 21000 Dryer Vent Closure - Amazon.com

The code-citing here has not been thoughtful. Thinking, imagine how fire starts at a clothes dryer. It is at the heat within the dryer, when all exhaust is blocked. If the dryer is in fire, flame will not progress into the blocked ducting, all the way to an outside wall. The challenge for safety, is to do all we can to maintain free-flowing ducts. Manufacturers provide no ducts or electrical cords, shirking liability for accessories that then must be invented by each consumer. The consumer takes the liability in using whatever he finds.

The installation choices are likely:
Duct to Wall (plastic!!!)
or maybe this (better but resistive and still not thoughtful for lint maintenance)
Wall Jack (more plastic, and very sure that doors become jammed-open, then plug up)

Who is stepping up to the real problems?
1. Flow check won't plug.
Who is better in this than Heartland? No one!
2. All ducts to the jack are serviceable.
Let code zealots step in here. Demand short, smooth, accessible ducts. Smooth metal at least 28 gage, sure. Let ducts have a lazy-flow filter cartridge in/ on the wall above the dryer or wherever there is space before the wall entrance.

Don't be cruel in citing codes that must not preclude the good features in which Heartland excels. Get the codes expanded and clarified. Can't someone here help in getting code written, that doesn't teach disrespect and rebellion?

Originally Posted by Phillip Norman

The reply to my post of 4-30-2013 was conversation-stopping meanness, not characteristic of this site. On this day, I am obliged to push a productive conversation, where I contributed to amazon.com conversation here:
HEARTLAND 21000 Dryer Vent Closure - Amazon.com

The code-citing here has not been thoughtful. Thinking, imagine how fire starts at a clothes dryer. It is at the heat within the dryer, when all exhaust is blocked. If the dryer is in fire, flame will not progress into the blocked ducting, all the way to an outside wall. The challenge for safety, is to do all we can to maintain free-flowing ducts. Manufacturers provide no ducts or electrical cords, shirking liability for accessories that then must be invented by each consumer. The consumer takes the liability in using whatever he finds.

The installation choices are likely:
Duct to Wall (plastic!!!)
or maybe this (better but resistive and still not thoughtful for lint maintenance)
Wall Jack (more plastic, and very sure that doors become jammed-open, then plug up)

Who is stepping up to the real problems?
1. Flow check won't plug.
Who is better in this than Heartland? No one!
2. All ducts to the jack are serviceable.
Let code zealots step in here. Demand short, smooth, accessible ducts. Smooth metal at least 28 gage, sure. Let ducts have a lazy-flow filter cartridge in/ on the wall above the dryer or wherever there is space before the wall entrance.

Don't be cruel in citing codes that must not preclude the good features in which Heartland excels. Get the codes expanded and clarified. Can't someone here help in getting code written, that doesn't teach disrespect and rebellion?

If you are looking for sympathy for promoting unlisted items which may be unsafe and have not been tested to established safety standards, yet are being promoted because someone thinks that the item is a neat and good idea ... the best advice I can offer you is to have the item tested to the recognized safety standards and get the item listed, then manufacture the item with materials which will meet the requirements of the code

No sugar coating here - just facts.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

No sugar coating here - just facts.

TAKEN FROM LINK REVIEWS:Both I, and my brother-in-law, have had this vent closure installed on our homes for several years with no complaints whatsoever.

Now that ought to be Good Enough for Anybody!!!

Perhaps this device is an improvement and exceeds the code? And a hush fell over the valley.

Heck the baffle and vent cover on my dryer vent is plastic and it was passed by our local AHJ a few years ago.

We all know that many parts of the codes are left up for interpretation and opinions of those who enforce them and that they do interpret them differently.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Perhaps this device is an improvement and exceeds the code?

Nope, not only does that not exceed the code, that does not even meet the code.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Heck the baffle and vent cover on my dryer vent is plastic ...

Scott,

You have identified what the components which are 'on the exterior surface' of the wall are constructed of, please identify the material the duct to those components is made of ... thanks.

'That' is the difference between what you have and the AHJ in your area approved and what that person is promoting ... the components which are going through the wall and/or are in concealed spaces.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

[/FONT][/COLOR]
Nope, not only does that not exceed the code, that does not even meet the code.



Scott,

You have identified what the components which are 'on the exterior surface' of the wall are constructed of, please identify the material the duct to those components is made of ... thanks.

'That' is the difference between what you have and the AHJ in your area approved and what that person is promoting ... the components which are going through the wall and/or are in concealed spaces.

Okay, the ductwork at my home is smooth metal pipe. It goes through the OSB. The plastic baffle has a piece that fits inside the pipe and is then attached to the house.

From what I can see with the Heartland device it is attached pretty much the sane way as the common vent baffles that we see now and what is on my home. The metal flue pipe goes through the wall and the device is attached to the pipe and house.

If this is the case, I do not see what is wrong.

Jerry,
Is your argument that the exterior piece is plastic/PVC?
Or that the potential use of the extension is plastic/PVC? Which I would agree would not conform to the code requirements.

If the duct is metal from dryer to the exterior plane where the plastic/PVC vent cover is located then it meets code """M1502.4.1 Material and size. Exhaust ducts shall have a smooth interior finish and shall be constructed of metal...."""". ?

If you can find a dryer manufacture instructions that would restrict the use of this exterior termination please post it or its link.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Okay, the ductwork at my home is smooth metal pipe. It goes through the OSB. The plastic baffle has a piece that fits inside the pipe and is then attached to the house.

From what I can see with the Heartland device it is attached pretty much the sane way as the common vent baffles that we see now and what is on my home. The metal flue pipe goes through the wall and the device is attached to the pipe and house.

If this is the case, I do not see what is wrong.

All the information I have found (from the link and otherwise) which shows that device shows the through wall extension as looking like white plastic the same as the exterior hood part is (but nothing actually states what it is made of).

Here is the strange part - when I go to the manufacturer's website: Deflecto, LLC | Chairmats, Office Organization, Literature Display, Air Distribution and more! they ask if I am a US home owner or otherwise, regardless of which is selected I have not been able to find that device on their website, but they do show that dryer box which one connects the dryer connector duct to and which sets behind or next to the dryer when there is no duct to the exterior - a device which is not allowed to be used anyway.

Here is an Installation Manual for a Whirlpool model # WED4800BQ
Installation Manual: see page 13
http://www.whirlpool.com/digitalasse...ruction_EN.pdf

The manufacture uses the terms of “recommended” , "acceptable” types of hood but do not specifically restrict installation to those pictured designs. They also say 45° elbows provide better airflow than 90° elbows but do not restrict 90° elbows, another recommendation not.



Now I know that someone may fixate on the term “acceptable” as limiting the types, though it is just another recommendation rather than a design specification.

Used this link:

Deflect-O® Ultra Seal Dryer Vent (DVC) - Vent Kits & Hoods - Ace Hardware

Cost $27 and ship to local ACE Hardware...

Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells

Used this link:

Deflect-O® Ultra Seal Dryer Vent (DVC) - Vent Kits & Hoods - Ace Hardware

Cost $27 and ship to local ACE Hardware...

21 positive reviews, what do they know?

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

All the information I have found (from the link and otherwise) which shows that device shows the through wall extension as looking like white plastic the same as the exterior hood part is (but nothing actually states what it is made of).

Here is the strange part - when I go to the manufacturer's website: Deflecto, LLC | Chairmats, Office Organization, Literature Display, Air Distribution and more! they ask if I am a US home owner or otherwise, regardless of which is selected I have not been able to find that device on their website, but they do show that dryer box which one connects the dryer connector duct to and which sets behind or next to the dryer when there is no duct to the exterior - a device which is not allowed to be used anyway.

Manufactures Installation Instructions ( cut existing vent pipe 1/2 inch thru wall ) if you purchase their acc. thru the wall kit appears to be made of the same material as cap.

http://qo9x6.3gaeb.servertrust.com/v...v-instruct.pdf

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

Manufactures Installation Instructions ( cut existing vent pipe 1/2 inch thru wall ) if you purchase their acc. thru the wall kit appears to be made of the same material as cap.

http://qo9x6.3gaeb.servertrust.com/v...v-instruct.pdf

And see that white plastic extension piece?

That is one of the pages I looked at, the few pages/drawings show what looks to be white plastic, not metal as required by the code.

Regarding your other post, the code also allows 45 elbows and 90 elbows, and penalizes the use of the old standard adjustable 90 elbows over the newer 90 sweep elbows by adding 5 feet to the length of the run for the old standard adjustable 90 elbows but only adds about 1.5 feet for the newer long sweeps.

Any restriction to the air flow creates additional "effective" length, and any turn in the duct creates a restriction.

That device has a 90 bend at the end of the duct run, it also has a end cap which the exhaust air must lift before exhausting any air, combine the 90 elbow with the restriction created by the end cap having to be blown upward and the effective additional length is likely 5 feet for the 90 elbow part and likely another 5-10 feet for the 'lifting the cap' part - which means that device likely adds 10-15 FEET to the effective length of the dryer duct, and when the dryer duct is limited to 25 feet ... that does not leave much for the actual duct length.