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  1. #1
    Chip O'Brian's Avatar
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    Default Off Grade Under Floor/Crawl Space Walls

    Jerry this in your world Florida. Build 2005 with in .25 mile to beach 2 story off grade. Skirting is 2X6 wood appears tounged, no air gaps. Wood in contact with ground or below.

    1) No air flow in floor space primarly sealed.
    2) Wood incontact with ground.
    3) Could not inspect crawl seal door in pic 3
    4) Shot a photo of underfloor at hole pic 4 appears spray foam insulation.

    Tell me the good news.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Off Grade Under Floor/Crawl Space Walls

    Good news is that is not Jerry's house.

    Jerry, I didn't know you have your own world now. Mr. Bigshot he is.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Off Grade Under Floor/Crawl Space Walls

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip O'Brian View Post
    1) No air flow in floor space primarly sealed.
    Tell me the good news.
    Chip,

    The NEW THINKING is to seal the crawl space. The claim is in humid areas sealed crawls have less moisture than vented.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Off Grade Under Floor/Crawl Space Walls

    That new thinking will get you in trouble too.

    Go back and look under that structure in a few years and more than likely your going to find some moisture problems such as wood decay.

    We know its going to be wet under there due to the fact that the wood siding is in contact with the ground. Its going to wick up that water and that moisture is going to that crawlspace area.

    JMHO

    rick


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Off Grade Under Floor/Crawl Space Walls

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    That new thinking will get you in trouble too.

    Go back and look under that structure in a few years and more than likely your going to find some moisture problems such as wood decay.

    We know its going to be wet under there due to the fact that the wood siding is in contact with the ground. Its going to wick up that water and that moisture is going to that crawlspace area.

    JMHO

    rick
    Agreed.

    Even if everything else is correct I imagine a plumbing leak in enclosed crawl unnoticed
    for a few months

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Off Grade Under Floor/Crawl Space Walls

    I am originally from Georgia so I know all about humidity. I don't miss it.

    Not that I totally agree but I can understand the argument to seal crawlspaces so moisture is not brought into the crawlspace with moist outside air. That may be fine as long as the air inside the crawlspace contains less moisture than the outside air.

    I'm not talking relative humidity here. I'm talking about the total moisture content of air. Relative humidity is dependent on temperature. Warm air can hold more moisture than cool air. Outside air that is 90 degrees and 50% saturated (50% relative humidity) will be 100% saturated when it moves into a crawlspace and is cooled to 70 degrees.

    Sealing the crawlspace might be OK if outside air were the only source of moisture in the crawlspace. But it is not.

    What happens when there is a plumbing leak or a foundation leak that causes the moisture level in the crawlspace to rise? If the crawlspace is sealed the moisture is now trapped in the crawlspace. In that event I would think crawlspace ventilation is needed.

    "Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand." Leo Durocher
    Bruce Breedlove
    www.avaloninspection.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Off Grade Under Floor/Crawl Space Walls

    Another concern is the look of that foam. Looks non pro and that means it may be covering some nice stuff. HAHA Or installed improperly over damp material. Pro style is going to be a more uniform and thicker finish.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Off Grade Under Floor/Crawl Space Walls

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip O'Brian View Post
    Tell me the good news.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Good news is that is not Jerry's house.
    Rick, you got that right!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip O'Brian View Post
    Build 2005 with in .25 mile to beach 2 story off grade.
    Is that high enough to be above flood level (DFE and BFE)? In Destin? I would think that that would need to be higher, with frangible walls (breakaway walls) down to grade from DFE/BFE as that is most likely a V flood zone (V=velocity, meaning wave action). At least I would think so at only 1/4 mile in. If it is in Destin, have you contacted Noel (now Chief Inspector) or Larry Ballard (Building Official) - I worked with both last year when I was doing municipal support for Larry while Noel and Larry were alternating taking vacation time off before they lost it.

    Skirting is 2X6 wood appears tounged, no air gaps.
    See above.

    Wood in contact with ground or below.
    Would need to be pressure treated and then you have the problem of termite tunneling up it and not being seen. Not good.

    1) No air flow in floor space primarly sealed.
    2) Wood incontact with ground.
    See above.

    What is that wood siding on? If wood framing, it would be too close to grade, unless pressure treated, then what type of termite protection was used, etc.?

    3) Could not inspect crawl seal door in pic 3
    4) Shot a photo of underfloor at hole pic 4 appears spray foam insulation.
    I'm not sure that that insulation is intended to be used for exposed floor crawlspace areas. Also, not only was there insufficient space in the crawlspace for you to crawl, but it was also insufficient for the person who sprayed on that insulation as it looks way too thin to meet much of any R-value, and, yes, I see the ope space, looks rectangular, like something was there when the insulation was sprayed on, then it was removed, leaving the opening.

    Good news? At least the pipes are insulated with some type of insulation, albeit unknown type or R-value, but, no R-value is specified for insulation, it's *whatever works*.

    Looks like pressure treated joists. The girder in the distance looks too close to the ground. With pressure treated, though, I think the height above grade can be quite low, but that does not address termite treatment or termite accessibility (making termites only tunnel a short way is like you having a supermarket move in next door - your food source now requires much less walking to reach ).

    Then, of course, do not forget all that organic matter (the branches or whatever they are) laying on the ground and reaching up toward the wood floor system. Nothing like building a private walkway to that new supermarket which moved in next door to you.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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