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  1. #1
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    Default lagging deck to skirting on manufactured

    I was told this was permitted. Can you lag a deck ledger to what appears to be non load bearing block skirting on a manufactured home? The home had all the normal shimmed block supports which leads me to believe that the skirting is non load bearing/non structural. The deck is at the top of a BEAUTIFUL canyon. I would hate for it to fail and go crashing down.DSCN5036.jpgDSCN5039.jpg

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: lagging deck to skirting on manufactured

    The deck should be self supporting and not depend on the ledger attachment to hold it up. The ledger attachment should be for stability. Having said that, I see decks like the one in the photo often and each time I say the same thing, that they should be self supporting. With a manufactured home you must not attach anything to the structure itself.

    Being permitted does not mean that it was done correctly, it just means that somebody paid for a permit!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: lagging deck to skirting on manufactured

    There are very few structural fasteners rated for use with hollow block. The ones that are usually have pretty low capacities.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: lagging deck to skirting on manufactured

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Sky if that was permitted I would like to see what they used to determine this. In the 2009 deck building code those lag bolts need to be staggered. What I see here they could not reach the entire rim/band joist with the full board so they lagged it at the top.
    In this case I would not build a self supporting design and would make sure it is attached securely. Under most decks low enough I would though with no danger like you stated.
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    ......if, in fact, it is bolted to any part of the rim joist it would not be allowed by virtue of the manufactured home industry requiring only self-supporting attachments. However, the OP stated that it was attached to the block skirting. If the skirting is not structural, as also stated - it becomes an issue of appropriate fastening to the block wall (as pointed out by Mr. Reinmiller).......Greg


  5. #5
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    Default Re: lagging deck to skirting on manufactured

    Sky,
    The block skirting, load bearing or not, can not be used to carry the vertical load of a deck. If the deck is self-supporting the deck can be attached to the blocks for lateral support only, if designed properly. The bolt pattern outlined in the IRC Table 507.2.1 is for vertical loads and does not apply for lateral loads. The IRC gives only one example of proper lateral load attachment of a deck, anything else would have to be designed. The limitations placed on attaching items to a manufactured home does not apply to the skirting, which is not considered as part of the manufactured home design.

    Randy Mayo, P.E.
    Residential Engineering & Inspection Services
    http://www.rlmengineers.com

  6. #6
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    Default Re: lagging deck to skirting on manufactured

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Mayo View Post
    Sky,
    The block skirting, load bearing or not, can not be used to carry the vertical load of a deck. If the deck is self-supporting the deck can be attached to the blocks for lateral support only, if designed properly. The bolt pattern outlined in the IRC Table 507.2.1 is for vertical loads and does not apply for lateral loads. The IRC gives only one example of proper lateral load attachment of a deck, anything else would have to be designed. The limitations placed on attaching items to a manufactured home does not apply to the skirting, which is not considered as part of the manufactured home design.
    .......you're blanket assumption that the block wall is not considered as part of the manufactured home design is flawed. Depending upon roof pitch, snow and wind zone the manufacturer may require perimeter support and it would then become part of the home design.......Greg


  7. #7
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    Rolla, MO
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    Default Re: lagging deck to skirting on manufactured

    Greg,

    I stated skirting, which is a non-structural perimeter wall. If the blocks are used only to fill the perimeter void then its not structural and not part of the design. Some manufactures will require perimeter supports (blocks) at specific points, but areas filled in between these supports is non-structural. Load bearing or not the lateral load restraint of a deck is not addressed in the manufactured home design requirements. So any lateral load restraint should be designed independent of what is on top of that block wall, the IRC is not applicable in this situation.

    Randy Mayo, P.E.
    Residential Engineering & Inspection Services
    http://www.rlmengineers.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: lagging deck to skirting on manufactured

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Mayo View Post
    Greg,

    I stated skirting, which is a non-structural perimeter wall. If the blocks are used only to fill the perimeter void then its not structural and not part of the design. Some manufactures will require perimeter supports (blocks) at specific points, but areas filled in between these supports is non-structural. Load bearing or not the lateral load restraint of a deck is not addressed in the manufactured home design requirements. So any lateral load restraint should be designed independent of what is on top of that block wall, the IRC is not applicable in this situation.
    .........all manufacturers require supports at specific point loads. However, as I said, depending upon various requirements, the entire perimeter skirt wall may become a structural element. I have no issue with your assessment of lateral vs. vertical loads, but your blanket statement that perimeter skirting wall is never considered a structural element of a manufactured home is quite incorrect.......Greg


  9. #9
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    Newalla, OK
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    20

    Default Re: lagging deck to skirting on manufactured

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Jones View Post
    I was told this was permitted. Can you lag a deck ledger to what appears to be non load bearing block skirting on a manufactured home? The home had all the normal shimmed block supports which leads me to believe that the skirting is non load bearing/non structural. The deck is at the top of a BEAUTIFUL canyon. I would hate for it to fail and go crashing down.DSCN5036.jpgDSCN5039.jpg
    I would defer to the engineers assessment. The deck should be self supporting. If local codes allow this type of attachment then the lag bolts are not properly spaced or attached. Most manufacturers require blocking under door openings and window openings over 6' but strangely don't require a footing to frost line. Other questions. There appears to be some type of opening to the right side of the photo. Is it access or clear span for the deck? Why is there a pier in the foreground and for what purpose? I have never heard of ledger support attached to a pier. The ledger appears to be 2x12 with 2x6 floor joists @16" OC. Most deck builders would have used a 2x8 for the ledger. Did this deck builder question his attachment and figure that a 2x12 would give him better support? Those are strange stain patterns on the floor joists. With mold or something on the far left. Can't tell if the material is treated. Are the joist still sound? Since the IRC seems to address decks with 2x8 joists you will have to refer to Southern Pine Council for span requirements with 2x6 floor joists. From experience I would bet that the span of these joists exceeds the span limits set forth by the Council. In addition, since this deck is over 2' above grade are the guard posts, baulisters, rim joists, caps, etc. attached properly? Overall, I would say that this deck can be brought up to code standards easily but in its current configuration it is subject to epic fail. And yeah it is a nice view.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Jones View Post
    I was told this was permitted. Can you lag a deck ledger to what appears to be non load bearing block skirting on a manufactured home? The home had all the normal shimmed block supports which leads me to believe that the skirting is non load bearing/non structural. The deck is at the top of a BEAUTIFUL canyon. I would hate for it to fail and go crashing down.DSCN5036.jpgDSCN5039.jpg
    I would defer to the engineers assessment. The deck should be self supporting. If local codes allow this type of attachment then the lag bolts are not properly spaced or attached. Most manufacturers require blocking under door openings and window openings over 6' but strangely don't require a footing to frost line. Other questions. There appears to be some type of opening to the right side of the photo. Is it access or clear span for the deck? Why is there a pier in the foreground and for what purpose? I have never heard of ledger support attached to a pier. The ledger appears to be 2x12 with 2x6 floor joists @16" OC. Most deck builders would have used a 2x8 for the ledger. Did this deck builder question his attachment and figure that a 2x12 would give him better support? Those are strange stain patterns on the floor joists. With mold or something on the far left. Can't tell if the material is treated. Are the joist still sound? Since the IRC seems to address decks with 2x8 joists you will have to refer to Southern Pine Council for span requirements with 2x6 floor joists. From experience I would bet that the span of these joists exceeds the span limits set forth by the Council. In addition, since this deck is over 2' above grade are the guard posts, baulisters, rim joists, caps, etc. attached properly? Overall, I would say that this deck can be brought up to code standards easily but in its current configuration it is subject to epic fail. And yeah it is a nice view.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    california
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    Default Re: lagging deck to skirting on manufactured

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Jones View Post
    I was told this was permitted. Can you lag a deck ledger to what appears to be non load bearing block skirting on a manufactured home? The home had all the normal shimmed block supports which leads me to believe that the skirting is non load bearing/non structural. The deck is at the top of a BEAUTIFUL canyon. I would hate for it to fail and go crashing down.DSCN5036.jpgDSCN5039.jpg
    Here we go aGAIN

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Jones View Post
    I was told this was permitted. Can you lag a deck ledger to what appears to be non load bearing block skirting on a manufactured home? The home had all the normal shimmed block supports which leads me to believe that the skirting is non load bearing/non structural. The deck is at the top of a BEAUTIFUL canyon. I would hate for it to fail and go crashing down.DSCN5036.jpgDSCN5039.jpg
    Here we go aGAIN


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    california
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: lagging deck to skirting on manufactured

    SOMEWHAT UN CLEAR TO YOUR WORDING "SKIRTING" Here we go again as this crap has been badgered back n forth and apparently has to do wiith the AHJ previously was told by Jerry Peck that no attachment was allowed in Florida
    California is earth quake country and with few exceptions if any decks can be attached to a permanent foundation set for a mfg home The foundation woulkd have a footibng rebar concrete j bolts mudsill framing studs top plates etc and would have to next meet the requirements of a deck attachment same as a house being ledger bolts spaced corerectly flashings etc etc but back to the bascic question YES decks can and are attached to permanent foundations if done correctly and do not have t6o be free standing with a seperate supported girder or what ever next to the mfg house as anything else defies logic DONE end of discussion


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