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  1. #1
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    Default Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Are these garage brick steps into the house allowed. These are commonly seen. The two drawing indicate a 10 inch tread and an 8 inch tread are okay. Which is correct? The drawings appear to be in conflict. Is there anything wrong with the brick steps as shown in the photos, relative to the tread not being 10 inches as the drawing shows?



    Stairs03-TreadsRisers.jpgrise-run-treadwidth.jpgIMG_1885.jpgIMG_1886.jpg

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    I don't know who at Nacho drew that drawing, but they were either dyslexic and did not know what they were doing or ... they just did not know what they were doing.

    The other drawing with the red ball in it is almost right.

    The stair in your photo is not right because it does not meet the minimum tread depth and because the tread depth variation exceeds 3/8".

    You will find to newsletters here ( Inspectors ) which address stairs and guards, Part 1 and Part 2 - keep in mind that these address the Florida codes, however, the Florida codes are based on the ICC codes and, for many things, the two codes are the same (no changes in the Florida codes from the ICC codes).

    What are the riser height?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I don't know who at Nacho drew that drawing, but they were either dyslexic and did not know what they were doing or ... they just did not know what they were doing.

    The other drawing with the red ball in it is almost right.

    The stair in your photo is not right because it does not meet the minimum tread depth and because the tread depth variation exceeds 3/8".

    You will find to newsletters here ( Inspectors ) which address stairs and guards, Part 1 and Part 2 - keep in mind that these address the Florida codes, however, the Florida codes are based on the ICC codes and, for many things, the two codes are the same (no changes in the Florida codes from the ICC codes).

    What are the riser height?

    The bottom step "riser" is the thickness of two standard bricks, about 7 inch rise. The top step is about 3.25 inches or one brick thickness. This is a small two-step up to the house made with house bricks.


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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post
    The bottom step "riser" is the thickness of two standard bricks, about 7 inch rise. The top step is about 3.25 inches or one brick thickness. This is a small two-step up to the house made with house bricks.
    Which makes the stair even worse (more non-compliant) and more unsafe.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Top one goes under the threshhold so it ends up being longer. No problem with that.
    No problem with the brick going up under the threshold - that is correct.

    However, the tread depth is measured as Gene shows the tape measure - so that is a problem.

    If the door swung outward then you would need a 3' x 3' landing, ...
    That would be correct.

    ... according to the RBC this is correct.
    The door swinging outward and requiring a landing? Correct.

    Correct as shown? Incorrect.

    Except that it may be correct per the RBC (presuming that stands for Residential Building Code of Canada) ... but I doubt it - would you provide the code section and wording, copy and paste, thanks.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Plain and simple it's a trip hazard.


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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    The BEST stair reference I have found is the IRC Visual Interpretation of the Stair Building Codes...
    the 2012 version is now available...
    http://www.stairways.org/SMA-Books/Stair-Code-2009-Visual-Interpretation

    - - - Updated - - -

    The BEST stair reference I have found is the IRC Visual Interpretation of the Stair Building Codes...
    the 2012 version is now available...
    http://www.stairways.org/SMA-Books/S...Interpretation

    - - - Updated - - -

    The BEST stair reference I have found is the IRC Visual Interpretation of the Stair Building Codes...
    the 2012 version is now available...
    http://www.stairways.org/SMA-Books/S...Interpretation

    - - - Updated - - -

    The BEST stair reference I have found is the IRC Visual Interpretation of the Stair Building Codes...
    the 2012 version is now available...
    http://www.stairways.org/SMA-Books/S...Interpretation


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    Cool Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    The BEST stair reference I have found is the IRC Visual Interpretation of the Stair Building Codes...
    the 2012 version is now available...
    http://www.stairways.org/SMA-Books/S...Interpretation


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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    I see the garage (step) as an impractical mathematical equation.
    I see approximately a 12" inch high step into a garage entry.

    The first step looks OK.
    Riser 2 X 4" = 8" inches when you count the bed joint.
    Tread 10" inch long jumbo bricks with a bed joint.

    The next step is 4" inches and extends into under the threshold.

    No hand railings required.

    Am I missing something?

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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    brick c.JPG

    I hope the illustration is visible to everyone.

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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Am I missing something?
    Variation.

    Maximum riser height variation permitted is 3/8" tallest riser to shortest riser.

    Maximum tread depth variation permitted is 3/8" deepest tread to shallowest tread.

    That's a starting point.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Variation.

    Maximum riser height variation permitted is 3/8" tallest riser to shortest riser.

    Maximum tread depth variation permitted is 3/8" deepest tread to shallowest tread.

    That's a starting point.



    Jerry,
    Thanks for the reply.

    I understand the code and respect the intent but there are situations where you can not do the math. Lot slope, walkways and steps are another.

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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Jerry,
    Thanks for the reply.

    I understand the code and respect the intent but there are situations where you can not do the math. Lot slope, walkways and steps are another.
    Robert,

    Let's do the math which you say cannot be done:
    4" riser
    +8" riser
    =
    12" total rise

    2 risers
    =
    6" riser height

    I just did the math = 2 risers of 6" riser height each.

    What part cannot be done?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Robert,

    Let's do the math which you say cannot be done:
    4" riser
    +8" riser
    =
    12" total rise

    2 risers
    =
    6" riser height

    I just did the math = 2 risers of 6" riser height each.

    What part cannot be done?
    I was going to post that the 12" inch step be divided in half.
    But then you could assert the risers are not 7-3/4.

    I guess it reverts back to the treads title, "Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..."

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    I was going to post that the 12" inch step be divided in half.
    But then you could assert the risers are not 7-3/4.

    I guess it reverts back to the treads title, "Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..."
    The location of the steps in a home does not make any difference on what the building code will require, no different than steps going up to a front porch to go into the home. Same rules apply.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    I was going to post that the 12" inch step be divided in half.
    But then you could assert the risers are not 7-3/4.


    The risers don't have to be 7-3/4" - the MAXIMUM riser height is 7-3/4", not THE riser height.

    I guess it reverts back to the treads title, "Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..."
    You could ... but the correct answer is that stair rules apply to ALL stairs and that there is no exception for garage stairs ... so there is no "maybe" there - the answer "Do Stair rules apply on garage steps?" is: Yes.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Thank you all for enlightening me.
    I was misinterpreting the code.

    Kindest regards!
    Much appreciated.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    When is a step........... not a step? ................When it is a threshold support!IMG_3992.jpg


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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post
    When is a step........... not a step? ................When it is a threshold support!IMG_3992.jpg


    But ... it is still a stair!

    Step ... stair ... what is the difference anyway ... nothing - except that the code addresses them as "risers" (one elevation being higher or lower than another ... but if one is higher than another, does not the other one have to be lower than the other ).

    The code definition of a "stair" is "one or more risers" ('step up'/'step down' ... if one 'steps down', does that make them 'lowers' instead of 'risers' ).

    They would have been better off to have just filled the area below the threshold with concrete and pinned that concrete to the edge of the slab.

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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    R311.7.4.1 Riser Height
    R311.7.4.2 Tread Depth
    The maximum riser height shall be7 inches (196 mm) and the minimum tread depthshall be 10 inches (254 mm).

    The walking surface of treads and landings of astairway shall be sloped no steeper than one unitvertical in 48 units horizontal (2-percent slope).

    Thegreatest riser height within any flight of stairs shallnot exceed the smallest by more than 3/8-inch (9.5mm)

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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    R311.7.4.1 Riser Height
    R311.7.4.2 Tread Depth
    The maximum riser height shall be7 inches (196 mm) and the minimum tread depthshall be 10 inches (254 mm).

    The walking surface of treads and landings of astairway shall be sloped no steeper than one unitvertical in 48 units horizontal (2-percent slope).

    Thegreatest riser height within any flight of stairs shallnot exceed the smallest by more than 3/8-inch (9.5mm)
    So are you saying these steps are legal ?


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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    The bricks are about 8"? Minimum tread depth (means the width of the tread ) must be 10". That step is too narrow.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
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    Default Re: Do Stair rules apply on garage steps? Maybe, maybe not..

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    The bricks are about 8"? Minimum tread depth (means the width of the tread ) must be 10". That step is too narrow.
    And those bricks are tucked up under the threshold an inch or two to support it ... ... someone was not thinking when they did that.

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