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  1. #1
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    Default fire resistant dumbwaiter

    Doesn't a dumbwaiter in a garage require fire resistance? The garage ceiling, walls and walk-through door all meet fire resistant requirements. But there are wood cabinet doors on the dumbwaiter. If the dumbwaiter is up (in the kitchen), you can open a cabinet door in the garage and look up right into the kitchen cabinet. I found a post here regarding dumbwaiters, but not in garages.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: fire resistant dumbwaiter

    Randy,

    Based on your description of the walls and ceiling ... and wood doors you open to look into the kitchen cabinets - to me, you just described a 'hole' in the walls or ceiling.

    In which case that 'hole' would need to be covered to match the rest of the protection of the wall or ceiling.

    Just like is needed for a pull down stair in a garage ceiling.

    Now if that 'hole' is through the wall, then a 'door' could beused meet the opening protprotection requirements ... as long as the door meets the requirements for doors (which have three stated options).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: fire resistant dumbwaiter

    Thanks, Jerry. I felt I was correct. Not just the cabinet doors but the wood cabinet frame around the doors is exposed.

    There is a second cabinet door in the garage right on the floor to access the motor and chain. I also recommended a lock on that door to keep children out, even though the motor stops when the door is open.

    I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. (Thomas Edison)

  4. #4
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    Default Re: fire resistant dumbwaiter

    Sorry to be so late on this reply. Another issue is that a dumb-waiter, depending on how it is constructed, usually constitutes a concealed draft space and either must be fire-blocked (IRC 302.11) or constructed as a rated shaft (IBC 713). The old UBC used to allow lining of the shaft with 26 gage sheet metal but I don't think that is in the IRC.

    Thom Huggett, PE, SE, CBO

  5. #5
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    Default Re: fire resistant dumbwaiter

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom Huggett View Post
    Another issue is that a dumb-waiter, depending on how it is constructed, usually constitutes a concealed draft space and either must be fire-blocked (IRC 302.11) or constructed as a rated shaft (IBC 713). The old UBC used to allow lining of the shaft with 26 gage sheet metal but I don't think that is in the IRC.
    I don't know how the old UBC addressed it, but it is not a shaft per se and is not a concealed draft space.

    A concealed draft space is like what is hidden in the walls behind a fireplace and around the chimney, which is required to be fireblocked at each ceiling and each floor. A stud space is a concealed draft space too.

    A dumbwaiter is nothing more than a 'small elevator shaft' from one floor to the next ... and even includes a 'small elevator' inside it. Elevator shafts in dwelling units are not required to have fire-resistance rated walls, etc.

    Similar to a laundry chute which goes from one floor to another in a dwelling unit - fireblocking is not required at each ceiling or floor in them either, and those are typically lined with sheet metal with the purpose of protecting the clothes from becoming snagged or torn on the wood.

    Put a dumbwaiter, laundry chute, trash chute, or similar in a building other than a dwellings under the IRC and lots of things will kick in, but dwellings under the IRC (versus dwelling units within the IBC) have many reduced requirements.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
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    Default Re: fire resistant dumbwaiter

    I disagree with you, Jerry, but that's ok (). In our jurisdiction we require concealed spaces within combustible construction, including elevator shafts, to be fire blocked or otherwise protected to prevent unobserved fire spread, even in dwellings.

    Thom Huggett, PE, SE, CBO

  7. #7
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    Default Re: fire resistant dumbwaiter

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom Huggett View Post
    I disagree with you, Jerry, but that's ok ().
    Absolutely okay, heck, sometimes I even disagree with myself.

    In our jurisdiction we require concealed spaces within combustible construction, including elevator shafts, to be fire blocked or otherwise protected to prevent unobserved fire spread, even in dwellings.
    Okay, I'll bite , how do you fireblock an elevator shaft which needs to be open for the elevator?

    I'm not referring to fully enclosed wall stud spaces (concealed spaces) which need to be fireblocked at all floor and ceiling levels, but to the open elevator shaft itself?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: fire resistant dumbwaiter

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    ... how do you fireblock an elevator shaft which needs to be open for the elevator?
    Obviously a shaft cannot be fireblocked. I was speaking in terms of generalities for concealed spaces.

    With that, I'll let you have the last word....

    Thom Huggett, PE, SE, CBO

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