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  1. #1
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    Default Small porch support(s)

    I had a very small roof extension (maybe 4 ft by 4 ft) supported by 2 4x4 pt posts. While the 4x4's seemed more than adequate to support the roof pop-out, I noticed the posts were sitting on the concrete slab and where the posts were fastened to the roof structure looked a little iffy (see pics).


    I'm not sure if this is a code violation per say but it was definitely a safety issue imo. I reported it. Its the wording I'm not sure about. Something like ... "posts must be securely fastened to roof structure at top (more detail here?) and to concrete at bottom (more detail here?)" I was going to make some suggestions but wasn't sure if I should just direct him to a contractor.



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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Small porch support(s)

    Something like:

    Porch structure appears to have been improperly constructed; recommend a structural engineer design appropriate repairs; have licensed contractor deconstruct and reconstruct in accordance with engineering drawings as necessary.

    Note that the engineer determines what is necessary. The contractor then does what the engineer says needs to be done.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Small porch support(s)

    Hmm, indicating the need for a structural engineer for this would alarm a client to an issue I don't view as "that serious". While I would be concerned a post could be "kicked out" (safety issue), if it had been better secured at top/bottom I would have not even mentioned it.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Small porch support(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Miller View Post
    ... an issue I don't view as "that serious".
    Let's see ... leaning against one of those 4x4 posts and the roof comes crashing down on whowever is under it or even close enough to it ... is not "that serious"?

    I can see there is no need to answer any further questions of yours - you apparently are more intent in 'not rocking the boat' of the deal rather than doing what your client is paying you to do.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Small porch support(s)

    Come on, that's not true, I agree its a Safety Issue and needs to be reported as such. The "not serious" well, right, no one wants a roof on their head.
    Deck builders or most remodelers don't go to structural engineers about proper construction. I just don't think most folks would seek out a structural engineer for this but would hire a reputable contractor that would handle it.

    I appreciate your responses, but you don't need to get fired up when I comment on them.
    It's all good, THX!!


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Small porch support(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Miller View Post
    Deck builders or most remodelers don't go to structural engineers about proper construction.
    That is all to often way too correct, and bad things happen because of it.

    But ... 'you' are not "the" deck builder or the remodeler, you are the "inspector" ... until you right it off as not needing a structural engineer or even worse (something else you mentioned but I avoided replying to) ... "I was going to make some suggestions" ... if you do that, you 'become' the designer, and responsible for the end result of how it was built (and I doubt you want that).

    I just don't think most folks would seek out a structural engineer for this but would hire a reputable contractor that would handle it.
    You are quite correct! And look at the result of not doing that.

    I appreciate your responses, but you don't need to get fired up when I comment on them.
    It's all good, THX!!
    I can get all fired up when some inspector pooh-poohs recommending getting a structural engineer ... especially when they are looking at and questioning the results of NOT getting a structural engineer. It IS your responsibility to your client to recommend 'what is needed', not what you think they 'might accept doing'. It is up to your client to make an informed decision, and that can only be an informed decision if the information is given to them.

    Do many contractors have the knowledge and skills to properly construct that little porch? Yes, of course.

    Do many contractors not have that knowledge and skills? Unfortunately, that answer also Yes.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Small porch support(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I can get all fired up when some inspector pooh-poohs recommending getting a structural engineer
    Too defensive Mr. Peck. It's called a discussion, that's what people do in forums, share thoughts and ideas. I was being nice in my last response. Feel free not to answer any more of my questions, I won't lose any sleep over it. When folks disagree with me, I don't threaten not to talk to them anymore, that's a childish response imho.

    Good day.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Small porch support(s)

    It's not a simple disagreement when one isn't wanting to look out for their clients ... it is a dis ... service to their clients.

    Feel free to carry out your childish 'tantrum' for being called on it.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Small porch support(s)

    I'm late to the discussion, but, I can't see enough detail in those photos to even understand the exact scope of the issue.

    Is this "porch" newly installed? Are those posts (assuming more than 1) temporary supports while some fancy columns are being made or shipped in?

    Is the roof cantilevered?

    Was this just completed or is it old?

    Were there posts there previously?

    And how about some wide, pull-back shots to show the affected area.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Small porch support(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Miller View Post
    I had a very small roof extension (maybe 4 ft by 4 ft) supported by 2 4x4 pt posts. While the 4x4's seemed more than adequate to support the roof pop-out, I noticed the posts were sitting on the concrete slab and where the posts were fastened to the roof structure looked a little iffy (see pics).
    Morning, Michael.
    Hope this post finds you and your loved ones well.

    Little overkill and unsightly.
    Correct. Column not fastened at the top or bottom.
    Everything else about the extended porch roof looks very pleasing and proportionate.

    Opinion: Call back the framer, if they installed cladding, too fashion and install a triangular roof support bracket out of the same material and cladding to support extended roof framing, if you understand my opinion. The bracket will be fastened at the envelope & under the extended roof.
    Other than the 4"x4" inch wood columns, not a bad job.
    roof channel support.JPG

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  11. #11
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    Sep 2009
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    Default Re: Small porch support(s)

    I would not panic on this, but a good carpenter could make the modifications to the attachment points.

    Randy Mayo, P.E.
    Residential Engineering & Inspection Services
    http://www.rlmengineers.com

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