Results 1 to 26 of 26
  1. #1
    Ron Gries's Avatar
    Ron Gries Guest

    Default Entrance From Garage

    Hello Everyone,
    I know that the garage-dwelling door should not enter a bedroom due to the risk of vehicle fumes and/or fire entering the bedroom(s). But is it permissible to enter into a closet that is attached to the bedroom as seen in the photos? Garage to closet to bedroom.

    Similar Threads:
    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    2018 ASHI InspectionWorld

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Healdsburg, CA
    Posts
    1,741

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    As long as there's a door between the closet and bedroom and the door opening from the closet into the garage is a 1-3/8" in thickness, solid-core or honeycomb core steel door, or a 20 minute fire-rated door. ref: 2006 IRC 309.1 and for the west coast; 2007 CBC 406.1.4. BTW, the first ICBO code published in California in 1927 stated the same that there shall be no direct opening between a garage and a sleeping room. #1505.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,230

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Ron,

    This is the 2006 IRC wording, my answer, and why my answer is that:

    - SECTION R309
    - - GARAGES AND CARPORTS

    - - - R309.1 Opening protection.
    Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted. Other openings between the garage and residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) in thickness, solid or honeycomb core steel doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors.

    "Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted."

    No, that door is not allowed.

    The closet is part of the bedroom, it is part of what makes a room a 'bedroom', also, the closet, as part of a bedroom, requires AFCI protection for any and all circuits which have outlets in the bedroom (and closet).

    The simple solution is to make a 3' deep alcove with another door to the closet, separating the closet from the garage.



    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 03-12-2008 at 06:56 PM. Reason: speelin'
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #4
    Ron Gries's Avatar
    Ron Gries Guest

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Thanks for your quick response, both of you. I can now finish my report.


  5. #5
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
    Richard Stanley Guest

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    How about if the "fire" door was between the bedroom and the closet?


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chicago IL
    Posts
    1,984

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Jerry, I am surprised how lenient the IRC is on the door. Our Code also does not allow an exit path through a bedroom. However, our Code requires at least a B door or 3 hour steel door, (it's been a while, I don't remember exactly) between a DU and an attached garage. No wood door at all allowed I remember that for sure. Must also have rated jamb and rated self-closer and rated hinges.

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,230

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Keller View Post
    Jerry, I am surprised how lenient the IRC is on the door. Our Code also does not allow an exit path through a bedroom. However, our Code requires at least a B door or 3 hour steel door, (it's been a while, I don't remember exactly) between a DU and an attached garage. No wood door at all allowed I remember that for sure. Must also have rated jamb and rated self-closer and rated hinges.

    Markus,

    The only reason to have a door like that would be if the wall itself is a "fire rated assembly", and to require a 3 hour rated door would indicate that was a 4 hour rated wall.

    I think you are thinking of something else ... could you go back and check it? Thanks.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Healdsburg, CA
    Posts
    1,741

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Let's talk about a walk-in bedroom closet separated from the bedroom by a door being considered an integral part of the bedroom? (sleeping room)

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,230

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    Let's talk about a walk-in bedroom closet separated from the bedroom by a door being considered an integral part of the bedroom? (sleeping room)

    Okay ... but first explain what you just said (I thought that's what were we already talking about).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Healdsburg, CA
    Posts
    1,741

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Just being silly Jerry. BUT, if one has to walk through a doored space into another doored space I miss the point of why you want to say the closet space doesn't count as a true separation from the garage to bedroom. Of course I'm assuming the door from the garage into the closet is a fire rated door, etc.

    PS: I’m also aware there is no such word as “doored” but I know you get my drift.

    (this should make for a good discussion?)

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Memphis TN.
    Posts
    4,311

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Ron,

    This is the 2006 IRC wording, my answer, and why my answer is that:

    - SECTION R309
    - - GARAGES AND CARPORTS

    - - - R309.1 Opening protection.
    Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted.
    .
    The closet is part of the bedroom,

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    I miss the point of why you want to say the closet space doesn't count as a true separation from the garage to bedroom.
    Jerry Mc.,

    If the closet space is considered part of the bedroom I don't see how the garage door would be allowed.

    Closet doors are changed or removed (mirrored ,bia., latts ect.)

    Please elaborate how the closet space is not considered part of a bedroom.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,230

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    BUT, if one has to walk through a doored space into another doored space I miss the point of why you want to say the closet space doesn't count as a true separation from the garage to bedroom.
    Because the closet is part of the 'private bedroom' and many people leave "closet doors" open or ajar - as there is no real reason to close them.

    Thus, you end up with a bedroom and its closet opening directly to the garage.

    The closet is 'part of' the bedroom, and no bedroom ("room used for sleeping purposes") is allowed to open directly to a garage - the 'part of the bedroom' which is a closet does (in this case) open directly to the garage, hence 'the bedroom' opens directly to the garage (which is not allowed).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chicago IL
    Posts
    1,984

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Jerry, your answer was correct. The items I mentioned were for garage/repair shop separation.
    On the DU/attached garage separation Chicago Code states:
    1 hr. separation, only one access door no more than 21 sqft in size, self-closing door not less fire-resistive than a solid wood door one and three-quarters inches thick; sill not less than 8 inches above the garage floor.
    Correction posted.

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Healdsburg, CA
    Posts
    1,741

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Jerry P said: “Because the closet is part of the 'private bedroom' and many people leave "closet doors" open or ajar - as there is no real reason to close them. Thus, you end up with a bedroom and its closet opening directly to the garage.”

    I say: I cannot buy that argument in that many folks take the automatic closer, if there is one, off the door between the garage and house and leave it open a crack or even wide open. Is not a walk-in closet a separate space in an R-3 residential dwelling? If so how can a bedroom open directly into a garage when it actually opens into a closet that opens into a garage?

    I can't find any definitive reference in the codes to my dilemma and if you can I will stand corrected, chastised, ashamed, and suitably contrite.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,230

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    Is not a walk-in closet a separate space in an R-3 residential dwelling?
    Do lights in bedroom walk-in closets require AFCI protection?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Healdsburg, CA
    Posts
    1,741

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Yes and? Come on JP, you can make a better argument than that. Until somebody shoots down my two doors between a bedroom and garage theory I'll stick to my argument. BTW, because somebody could possibly change a door or remove it doesn't fly with me.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Posts
    3,746

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Tonight at 9:00, only on cable (hight speed internet).
    It's "East Coast Jerry" vs "West Coast Jerry", in a no holds barred extravaganza, for the World Championship title.

    Brought to you by your friends at Hann Tech .

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  18. #18
    Richard Stanley's Avatar
    Richard Stanley Guest

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    AND if the closet is considered part of the bedroom and requires afci for its electrical outlets AND if the bedroom is a habitable room, THEN lighting should be required for the closet!!!


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chicago IL
    Posts
    1,984

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    The idea of considering the closet or walk-in closet as a separate room between the bedroom/garage doesn't work at least on the following 2 points:
    1- closet most likely doesn't meet minimum sqft requirements to be considered a habitable room;
    2- the bedroom is still within the exit path
    Trying to rationalize that the closet scenario is OK, is just that, rationalization (bullshit)
    so ...
    - why not cut another access into a hallway a few feet over?
    - make it an office until the deal is done?

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,230

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    Yes and?

    And ....

    That's because the closet *IS* 'part of the bedroom', hence, in referring to the bedroom, that includes the closet.

    Since 'the bedroom' is 'a room used for sleeping purposes' (that is what a bedroom is), 'the bedroom' would not be allowed to have a door,i.e., "an opening", here: "Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted."

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Healdsburg, CA
    Posts
    1,741

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    JP stated: "Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted."
    JM says: The Key Word here is "directly" So in real life the door from the garage does not actually open directly into the bedroom, yes/no?

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,230

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    JP stated: "Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted."
    JM says: The Key Word here is "directly" So in real life the door from the garage does not actually open directly into the bedroom, yes/no?

    "yes/no?"

    No.

    The real life door from the garage *DOES* "directly" open into 'part of the sleeping room', i.e., 'part of the bedroom', i.e., "the closet part of the bedroom/sleeping room".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  23. #23

    Talking Re: Entrance From Garage

    Sheeeesh! Quible, quible. LOL
    All I know is that if I leave MY closet door ajar I'll find all my shoes in the back yard. My dog is a thief!
    Dana

    True Professionals, Inc. Property Consultant
    877-466-8504

  24. #24

    Smile Re: Entrance From Garage

    Jerry or one of the other Florida guys:

    I did an inspection on a house last week that was built in 2003. Had a standard interior door from the garage to the house. I wrote it up as: "Openings between the garage and residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 1-3/8 inches in thickness, solid or honeycomb core steel doors not less than 1-3/8 inches thick, or 20-minute fire-rated door."

    The buyer called me today to verify this was code at the time of construction. Of course I told him a home inspection is not a code inspection and recommended the door be changed regardless. He still wanted to know. I have an IRC 2000 that verifies the requirement but not a FBC 2001. Do you know if the FBC 2001 had this requirement? If so what chapter and section?

    Thanks,

    Larry


  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,230

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Larry,

    Regarding "separation" - That was one of the things lost when Florida went to its first 2001 Florida Building Code:

    - §411.2.6 Automobile parking garages shall be separated from other occupancies in accordance with §704.
    - - EXCEPTION: Separation is not required between a Group R3 building and an attached garage.

    - R3: Residential occupancies including the following:
    - - Child care facilities which accommodate 3 or fewer children of any age for any time period.
    - - One-and two-family dwellings where the occupants are primarily permanent in nature and not classified as R1, R2 or I.
    - - Rooming houses (transient)
    - - Rectories, parsonages

    That said (regarding "separation"), that door needs to meet the same requirements of any other exterior door regarding separating the conditioned space from non-conditioned space and outdoors, i.e., it needs to be a solid wood or metal insulated door with weather stripping, threshold, etc.

    Ultimately, when they meet the above, they will also be meeting the requirements for "separation" in today's code.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  26. #26

    Default Re: Entrance From Garage

    Hey Jerry:

    Thanks for the info; I will pass it along.

    Thanks,

    Larry


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •