Thread: Deckcellence

I've built more than my share of decks and have inspected hundreds of them. None quite like this though. Note that almost everything that could be done wrong was done wrong.

Needless to say I told the client to have the seller remove it before closing escrow.

Aaron

Who ever built that had no right even trying.

That was a news story in the making!

It's often fun on the weekend trip through HD to watch the people scratching their heads in the Simpson bracket and fastener isle, all while pulling around a load of lumber for a deck.

It's like looking into the future... The guy's going to go home, built a crappy deck, move someday, and I get to go write all about it.

It's like job security

Looks like someone got the pergola plans mixed up with the decking plans.

Rick Souter

Originally Posted by Matt Fellman

It's often fun on the weekend trip through HD to watch the people scratching their heads in the Simpson bracket and fastener isle, all while pulling around a load of lumber for a deck.

It's like looking into the future... The guy's going to go home, built a crappy deck, move someday, and I get to go write all about it.

It's like job security

I have always had the belief that the police who position themselves outside bars and nightclubs in order to nab drunk drivers would actually catch more criminals and prevent more crimes if they would just set up sub-stations in the Home Depot and Lowes parking lots.

They could approach you before you even loaded that roll of 12/3 cable into the car and demand to see your electrician's license. Same goes for the guy who's wheeling a cart of plumbing fixtures to his truck. May I see your plumber's license, please? Or the guy with the coil of CSST and a roll of white Teflon tape . . .

As for the lumber or tool department there would need to be a gate that is manned by someone checking IQs. Under 125 and your not going in . . .

Just dreaming.

Aaron

I LLLLLove it! Especially the 2 posts sticking up about 25" from the ....um...is it ....roof? Pergolaroof? Baby Sundeck?
"No need to trim 'em honey, nobody will see them from the living room!"
And let me tell you, those 5/4's will hold any 4"x4"...for a day or two.

I wish I could find pictures that good!

$10 says the builder's circular saw has electrical tape about 4' from the saw!
Any takers?

you all are being a little tough on the craftsman. he did put in knee bracing to support the roof and provide lateral bracing! too bad they're installed in the wrong direction

Aaron, just looking at that gives me bad ju-ju.

I like how they attempted to tie the decking into the siding.

Aaron,

That house looks like it might be in the Buckingham / Mars area of Garland.

You know the neighborhood of nothing but Masonite siding. Not a brick in site. Kind of like that neighborhood called The Savannah's up near Denton except its all HP siding.

Rick:

It was actually in Euless. It was rather windy on that day and I thought I saw in my peripheral vision movement in the thing as I passed by it. Then I though maybe it was the Chardonnay from the night before and though less of it. As I stepped up on the "deck" I heard the whole thing emit a sigh.

The deck boards were being supported on single 2"X6" joists on 3' centers. Most were bark side down and cupped enough to serve as gutter sections. But, the masterpiece was the arbor looking monstrosity literally set atop this rickety excuse for a deck.

The 4"X6" "support" posts were just sitting on top of the deck boards, and not over joists either. As someone mentioned they did provided something that resembled "anti-lateral support" for the overhead headache waiting to happen, but pushing ever so gently on the posts would result in a lot of movement above. Enough so that I only did this once.

The few 2"X6" "rafters" were so long and so undersized for their spans that they sagged about 1" in the centers. There were no joist hangers to be found. The ledger board was simply nailed to the siding with 12d ungalvanized nails.

HGTV has, among a myriad of others, one particular drawback. It has no enforcement branch. You know, someone like Jack Stone from Law and Order to prosecute them when they spend one Saturday morning watching part of an episode, between beer runs to the local 7-11, on replacing an incandescent light bulb with a greener and pricier compact florescent unit.
They then jump in the Kia and fly down to Home Depot, after stopping at 7-11 for yet another case of suds (of course), and promptly purchase a "contractor's package" main distribution panel with breakers, a 12-pack of cheap Chinese electrical tape and a flat of pansies to plant once the man's work is done.

That's capitalism,

Aaron

OK, before the first bug-eyed, bespectacled ex-English teacher amongst you takes the opportunity to point out to the entire world that I mispelled "thought" as "though" in the last post, I openly admit my brashness and will say right up front that I was in a hurry and simply put no "thought" in it.

Aaron

Originally Posted by Aaron Miller

OK, before the first bug-eyed, bespectacled ex-English teacher amongst you takes the opportunity to point out to the entire world that I mispelled "thought" as "though" in the last post, I openly admit my brashness and will say right up front that I was in a hurry and simply put no "thought" in it.

Aaron

Not to worry Aaron, you make A LOT of speelin' mistakes in your posts which no one (including myself) has been calling you on.

You really do need to get a spell checker.

Try this one: ieSpell - Download

I cdnuol't blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The
pheonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde
Uinervtisy. It deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the
olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit
pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a
porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by
istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? And I awlyas thought slpeling
was ipmorantt!

You guys have no doubt seen the TV commercial of the "smart guy" that......
"No but I stayed the night at The Holiday Inn".
This home owner must have spent a night passed out in the parking lot of HD.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Not to worry Aaron, you make A LOT of speelin' mistakes in your posts which no one (including myself) has been calling you on.

You really do need to get a spell checker.

Try this one: ieSpell - Download

Jerry:

Yeah, I have that software. What I need now is a reminder to use it from time to time. Also, I hate spell checkers because they are not intutitive. They should know before I do what I mean to say. Like my wife . . .

Aaron

I attended a 4 hour presentation by Simpson yesterday, according to the presenter decks are now the single greatest cause of death and injury due to structural failures at residential properties.

He also had some very interesting pictures of ZMAX coated connectors that were rapidly (within months) corroding when installed in contact with pressure treated lumber.

For example in some cases there would be little if any corrosion of the portion of a joist hanger in contact with a joist or ledger, but the metal in contact with an adjacent piece of wood would be badly corroded. When Simpson had the lumber tested, the concentrations of preservative on the material in contact with the corroded metal were 200% or more of those listed on the tags.

As a result, Simpson's current recommendation is that if their products are in installed in a wet exterior location and there are additional risk factors ("exposure to ocean salt air, fire retardants, large bodies of water, fumes, fertilizers, soil, some preservative treated woods, industrial zones, acid rain, and other corrosive elements") and/or you can't be certain of the preservative type/concentration of lumber ("verify actual retention level with the wood treater"), you should use stainless steel.

Which - as many of my inspections are of properties located near a large body of water (Lake Michigan) - means that they are in a "higher exposure environment", which in effect means that Simpson is recommending stainless steel for all exterior construction in these areas - a position the presenter verbally stated was correct.

Originally Posted by brian schmitt

aaron,
i vote don't use then speel check! it tells us something about an individuals personna to read the raw ,unedited version of the post,rather than the sterile and boring polished version. it would be like teaching your states contribution to our nations problems "W" how to read and write and be a critical thinker. we would all lose out on talk show jokes and evening news fodder. back away from the spell check

Brian:

Bright bulb that you are, you would know that W hails from Connecticut, not Texas.

As for critical thinking, you have a light years to travel to just catch up.

Want to criticize? Pick on someone in your depth. That would be a nominal, trade sized, 2" or so . . .

And, by the way, phuquetue.

Aaron

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas

I attended a 4 hour presentation by Simpson yesterday, according to the presenter decks are now the single greatest cause of death and injury due to structural failures at residential properties.

He also had some very interesting pictures of ZMAX coated connectors that were rapidly (within months) corroding when installed in contact with pressure treated lumber.

For example in some cases there would be little if any corrosion of the portion of a joist hanger in contact with a joist or ledger, but the metal in contact with an adjacent piece of wood would be badly corroded. When Simpson had the lumber tested, the concentrations of preservative on the material in contact with the corroded metal were 200% or more of those listed on the tags.

As a result, Simpson's current recommendation is that if their products are in installed in a wet exterior location and there are additional risk factors ("exposure to ocean salt air, fire retardants, large bodies of water, fumes, fertilizers, soil, some preservative treated woods, industrial zones, acid rain, and other corrosive elements") and/or you can't be certain of the preservative type/concentration of lumber ("verify actual retention level with the wood treater"), you should use stainless steel.

Which - as many of my inspections are of properties located near a large body of water (Lake Michigan) - means that they are in a "higher exposure environment", which in effect means that Simpson is recommending stainless steel for all exterior construction in these areas - a position the presenter verbally stated was correct.

Reading in Journal of Light Construction Feb.-08 there is a new pressure treated lumber that promises less corrosion.
Called PTI-or Wolmanized L3 Outdoor wood developed by Georgia based Arch Wood Protection. It is code compliant through an ICC evaluation report and is expected to receive final approval from the American Wood protection Association. sometimes this year. This will expand its use. It is carbon based meaning the preservative molecule is non metallic.
I am sure Simpson Strong Tie is not to happy about potential lost business for their stainless steel products.

Originally Posted by David Banks

I am sure Simpson Strong Tie is not to happy about potential lost business for their stainless steel products.

David,

Simpson is in the business of selling their products to contractors on the basis of reduced cost and improved productivity, and I didn't get the impression Simpson was pushing their SS products, it appeared to me that they were a lot more concerned about the fact that due to poor quality control on the part of treated lumber manufacturers (who probably assume that from their perspective too much preservative is better than too little) that their engineers could not predict when their ZMAX and 2x galvanized products - which builders and (especially) homeowners are going to use because of pricing issues - were going to fail.

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas

David,

Simpson is in the business of selling their products to contractors on the basis of reduced cost and improved productivity, and I didn't get the impression Simpson was pushing their SS products, it appeared to me that they were a lot more concerned about the fact that due to poor quality control on the part of treated lumber manufacturers (who probably assume that from their perspective too much preservative is better than too little) that their engineers could not predict when their ZMAX and 2x galvanized products - which builders and (especially) homeowners are going to use because of pricing issues - were going to fail.

Michael. My reason for the post was to tell people about the new product. My comment at the end was not to say anything negative about Simpson.
Did not mean it to come across that way. I agree the Company has some great products and probably does care about safety but the bottom line is always an issue here in good old USA.

David,

Sorry I misread the intent of your post.

Just ran across this article on safety glazing and decks, IMO it's worth bookmarking as it has some illustrations to help make things clear to clients and others:

http://www.deckmagazine.com/pdf/2007/0707/0707stru.pdf

Great article