I call these out all the time and recommend that they be covered with a fire rated material. Does anyone else see these and what do you call or recommend.

Yes, they should be called out.

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Tim Moreira
Suncoast Home Inspections
Suncoasthomeinspections@yahoo.com

Mike,

I assume you are talking about the type of attic door as in the picture below.
You are probably correct that the wood panel would not be "fire rated" material.

As far as recommending that the the panel be covered, I don't think I would recommend that myself. Additional weight added to the door panel may cause the panel to sag or be partially opened which would be more of a problem in its self.

Personally, I don't call them out myself as to have a covering over the door panel.

How about others, what do you say?

Rick

Attached Images

P4170045.JPG (78.7 KB, 53 views)

I am surprised that they are sold that way. I don't think I have yet to see a stair that is fire rated from the factory.

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Rick Hurst_Home Works Inspection Co_Rockwall TX
In the words of Mike Tyson.... "Everyone has a plan until they get hit inda mouf"

How many comment on the attic access door not being fire rated but assume that the scuttle hole to the attic that has the gypsum cut-out in place is acceptable?

Imagine a fire breaks out in the garage. It won't take a few minutes before that wooden facing trim nailed around the shuttle hole to hold up the gypsum piece burns up and the gypsum panel falls to the floor. Flames are then oxygen fed from the attic space and the attic is consumed.

I've been told by a city inspector that they were considering recommending that a panel of "cement backer board" be installed over the panel and have to cover the cracks around the panel door. He was claiming the cement backer board had a longer burn rate than gypsum board. Not sure of that information myself.

Just a thought.

Rick

There is no need to have them fire rated, the ceiling is not even "fire rated". Why bother with that little pull down stair cover is the rest of the ceiling is not?

"Separated" is the term.

The garage is supposed to be "separated" from the house and attic by 1/2" gypsum board, so, yes, the pull down stair cover should match that.

Either cover the pull down stair with 1/2" gypsum board (which, as has been pointed out, could cause the stair cover to drop from the extra weight), or, build a frame up in the attic and cover the opening with a piece of 1/2" gypsum board placed up there. Now, all you have to do is pull the stair down, push that cover up and back off the opening, then you are into the attic. When leaving the attic, remember to pull that cover back over the opening.

Yeah, I know, we all know that cover will never be put back, but that would be an option.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

I think alot of folks get confused with the requirements of having a fire-rated ceiling.

Basically it is this;
1. If there are living quarters above the garage-- the ceiling must be of 5/8 x-type (fire-rated) material.

2. No living space above the garage-- no fire rating required.

Rich

Rich,

Even what you posted is a bit confused.

Installing 5/8" Type X on the garage ceiling *DOES NOT MAKE IT* "fire rated", it simply 'raises the level of separation'.

The garage ceiling *system* would need to be constructed as one of the approved "fire rated systems", of which Type X is just one part.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

I don't report them.

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Scott Patterson
Spring Hill, TN
http://www.traceinspections.com

I do because there should be a fire stop between the garage and the living quarters. Do you call out the door to the garage if it is not hollow core or metal, I do. If the area around the furnace ducts, flue pipes, or furnace cabinet have gaps, I do.

So why not call out a 1/4" piece of plywood with trim and a gap around the edges. Its a safety item.

Mike

Says who?

We've been through this quite often, and I believe CA may still require a 'fire rated wall' between the garage and the living space, but the other codes do not, at least not the International Codes.

"Do you call out the door to the garage if it is not hollow core or metal, I do."

What's wrong with foam core metal?

"If the area around the furnace ducts, flue pipes, or furnace cabinet have gaps, I do."

The reason to call out those things has nothing to do with "FIRE!", but with "energy".

The living space is "conditioned" (heated and cooled) and the garage is not, thus, the garage door needs to be treated just like the front door. Solid core (wood or foam, foam is better insulating-wise), weatherstripped, threshold, etc. The gaps around the ducts, pipes, etc., are just like gaps around pipes, hose bibbs, etc., through the exterior walls - you do call those out too, right?

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Here is the info that is on the oregon fire wall information

Attached Images

92-25.pdf (375.7 KB, 33 views)

Yep.

"Separation" NOT "fire-rated assembly".

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

"Isn't the garage to house door suppose to be rated for approximately 1 hr 20 min before it disintingrates from a fire, thus making it a fireblock requirement?"

Nope.

~~~~~~~~~~
"2) Jerry, than what you are saying is the proper verbiage is:

" Pull down ladder cover does not provide proper separation between attic and garage".

versus saying,

"Pull down ladder cover does not provide proper fireblocking between attic an garage".
~~~~~~~~~

Correct, that would be a better way to say it.

"3) Jerry, define "fireblock" and "separtion"

"Separation" is simply a specified, but non-rated, 'membrane' used to separate to occupancies (residential dwelling unit from private garage).

"Fireblock" is incorrectly used there anyway. A "fireblock" is material used to block the passage of fire for a given rated time (for a rated fireblocking system) or simply as an empirical design proven over time to stop fire for an amount of time needed/desired (but is unrated). An example of an unrated "fireblocking material" would be a 2x4 "fireblock" in a wall.

A rated "fireblocking system" has a UL design number and must be installed precisely as shown in the UL design book, any deviation from that design installation and the fire rating is gone.

From the IRC: FIREBLOCKING. Building materials installed to resist the free passage of flame to other areas of the building through concealed spaces.

When you said "3) Jerry, define "fireblock" and "separation", I think you really meant to say 'define 'fire rated assembly' and 'separation'.

A 'fire rated assembly' is similar to a "fireblocking system" in that it is an assembly of materials, assembled specifically as per the UL design, and, when assembled that way, will provide a fire rating of the specified time (typically 1 hour, 2 hours, 3 hours or 4 hours, with doors typically being 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, 1 hour, 1-1/2 hour, 2 hour, 3 hour, or 4 hour). Most often you will find 20 minute doors in a 1 hour rated wall assembly.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

2003 IRC Sections R309.1 and R309.2 I think covers all the areas we've talked about.

What I find folks most often ignore when building is those few words "and its attic area." It's one of the sections included in our local code, but not enforced by the AHJ's, so I just get the glassy stare when I write it up. But, I do write it up.

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The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
- Paul Fix

Thom,

Please explain "What I find folks most often ignore when building is those few words "and its attic area." ".

Here is the IRC.
- GARAGES AND CARPORTS

- - R309.1 Opening protection.

- - - R309.1.1 Duct penetration.

- - R309.2 Separation required.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

"What is it that you find being ignored?"

The garage shall be separated from the residence and its attic area

I have always taken this literally.I am not an English major, nor do I play one on TV, but I was married to one for 25 years. The way it is worded it means "the residence and the residences' attic area." In short, there should be a separation in the attic between the garage and the house. Yes, my interprtation means that there would have to be an attic access inside the house the other side of the separation.

If it means otherwise, it should read "The garage shall be separated from the residence and the attic space over the garage."


I'm willing to accept that I'm wro..... wron........ wrong, but I don't have to do it willingly.

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The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
- Paul Fix