This is not a cantilever - InspectionNews

Jeff Remas · #1 (**permalink**) 02-20-2008, 09:56 AM

This is why I love the Poconos

Matt Fellman · #2 (**permalink**) 02-20-2008, 11:56 AM

I get those all the time up here in Oregon... deck joists pretty much start to rot the day the deck is built. Fast-forward 15 years and Mr. Repairman just cuts them off, ususally leaving about 6" to 'sister' the new ones to. Most often, there's half or so good ones left and the repaired ones are just for show.

I usually just ask the buyers if they have heavy friends or ever have 'kegger' parties

wayne soper · #3 (**permalink**) 02-20-2008, 07:37 PM

And I thought it was all those heart shaped tubs you get to test.

James Duffin · #4 (**permalink**) 02-20-2008, 09:48 PM

I've never seen this problem before. It took a while looking at the picture to even see how bad it was. I'll save this picture for future reference....amazing!

Jerry Peck · #5 (**permalink**) 02-21-2008, 06:28 AM

Jeff,

Either that deck is being supported by "structural air" of there is a support behind you

... how far behind you is the support (beam), and how far to the next support (beam).

Maybe it is "cantilevered", only it is "cantilevered" from the rest of the deck?

Jeff Remas · #6 (**permalink**) 02-21-2008, 07:45 PM

You are looking at the deck attachment to the house on a 12' deck. There are no joist hangars, no ledger board. The joists are toe-nailed only. Not even a lousy ribbon strip for good measure.

Jerry Peck · #7 (**permalink**) 02-21-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Remas

You are looking at the deck attachment to the house on a 12' deck. There are no joist hangars, no ledger board. The joists are toe-nailed only. Not even a lousy ribbon strip for good measure.

Jeff,

I understand that, but ... there must be *something* holding those joists up ... right?

Okay, so, now back to my question: what is holding those joists up and how far back from 'the house end' is it located, and, how far to the next support back further?

Surely those joists 'are not' just hanging there in mid air, being supported by the deck flooring, are they?

I.e., let's say you have 4 feet between the support behind you and the house, then another 4 feet to the next support and another 4 feet to the next support ... *IF* those joists are properly sized, they 'could be' cantilevered toward the house that far and work ... i.e., 1/3 their span rating and supported on two or more supports.

You would effectively have a "free standing deck" which is "touching" the house. Right?

So ... not enough information was given, and I was asking for that missing information.

Mike Schulz · #8 (**permalink**) 02-24-2008, 05:45 PM

Jerry,

I believe he means the joist are nailed through the siding into the rim band of the home.

Or they lined the joist up with the nailing pattern of the siding and tacked them to the studs.

Jerry Peck · #9 (**permalink**) 02-24-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Schulz

I believe he means the joist are nailed through the siding into the rim band of the home.

Mike,

I understand that, however, if (that big *IF*) the joists are 'otherwise supported properly for being cantilevered' off other supports, it might not be that big of a deal (except that you would want bracing or blocking to keep the ends from rotating).

Think of it this way: *IF* (there it is again) those joists were 'otherwise supported properly for being cantilevered' off other supports, you could technically take a sawzall and cut those joists loose from the wall, making the deck free standing, and those joists would not be a problem (other than lack of bracing or blocking to keep them from rotating).

Right?

Mike Schulz · #10 (**permalink**) 02-24-2008, 07:56 PM

Besides the fact that they are toe-nailed, there is no flashings and that masonite cardboard will rot in short time.

Andy Cox · #11 (**permalink**) 02-25-2008, 07:00 AM

I see what Jerry is saying, if the deck is otherwise a platform, supported, the pictured problem may not be as big a problem... something like this - excuse the very rough drawing...
Now, if there are only the 2 corner posts and the connection to the house holding it up, there's a real problem!

Mike Schulz · #12 (**permalink**) 02-25-2008, 04:01 PM

(the pictured problem may not be as big a problem)

It's a big problem no matter what. You can't but a deck up against a house with out some type of flashing to protect the structure.

Andy Cox · #13 (**permalink**) 02-25-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Schulz

(the pictured problem may not be as big a problem)

It's a big problem no matter what. You can't but a deck up against a house with out some type of flashing to protect the structure.

I agree, but it would be much worse if the whole deck was sitting on 2 posts with the weight resting on these toe-nailed joists. It's a little less bad if there are 4 posts, and these toe-nailed connections are not bearing the entire weight of the deck.

Either way, the deck needs some major help. Gee, do you think this was the work of a contractor, or a couple of buddies over a 12-pack on a weekend...???

Mike Schulz · #14 (**permalink**) 02-25-2008, 05:10 PM

This is what it needs..........

Jerry Peck · #15 (**permalink**) 02-25-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Schulz

This is what it needs..........

Mike,

No, not necessarily.

That is what Andy and I were trying to say.

*IF* (that big *IF*) the deck is constructed to be self supporting, all one needs is a sawzall (I know, that is a brand name) and cut off about 1/4" to 1/2" of the ends of the joints so the joists clear the wall and they are not touching, but are allowing drainage down between them and the wall ... but only ... *IF* the deck is constructed as self supporting.

Granted, *in all likelihood* the deck is supported by the house, but ... *IT MIGHT NOT BE*.

Without further information, we just do not know. And making those assumptions are not the best of things to do.

Andy, if a person talks and no one listens, is that like a tree falling in the woods? Is there really any sound?

Mike Schulz · #16 (**permalink**) 02-26-2008, 06:45 AM

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh oh wise one.

With the information given (12') It is likely only supported on one end. Adding supports at 6' is over kill and the way they attached it to the home would be a great indication they would not of added 6' supports.

Jerry Peck · #17 (**permalink**) 02-26-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Schulz

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh oh wise one.

With the information given (12') It is likely only

Mikey,

I don't go based on "It is likely only", I think about 'what is not shown and *could be*, or might not be' then ask the question related to that - but we just don't know, do we?

In which case we should not be stating anything with any level of certainty.

Mike Schulz · #18 (**permalink**) 02-26-2008, 03:44 PM

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh oh wise one.

With the information given (12') It "could be" only supported on one end. Adding supports at 6' is over kill and the way they attached it to the home would be a great indication they would not of added 6' supports.

__________________
Jerry where you my English teacher...............

Jerry one of these days I'm going to stump you............All kidding aside you are "my" mentor

David Banks · #19 (**permalink**) 02-26-2008, 04:19 PM

You know what happens when you assume? A 50 % chance of being wrong.

James Duffin · #20 (**permalink**) 02-26-2008, 09:49 PM

My thought was that the deck joist were originating from the crawl space, were cut off after they deteriorated, and left hanging.