Entrance From Garage - InspectionNews

Ron Gries · #1 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 12:50 PM

Hello Everyone,
I know that the garage-dwelling door should not enter a bedroom due to the risk of vehicle fumes and/or fire entering the bedroom(s). But is it permissible to enter into a closet that is attached to the bedroom as seen in the photos? Garage to closet to bedroom.

Jerry McCarthy · #2 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 01:32 PM

As long as there's a door between the closet and bedroom and the door opening from the closet into the garage is a 1-3/8" in thickness, solid-core or honeycomb core steel door, or a 20 minute fire-rated door. ref: 2006 IRC 309.1 and for the west coast; 2007 CBC 406.1.4. BTW, the first ICBO code published in California in 1927 stated the same that there shall be no direct opening between a garage and a sleeping room. #1505.

Jerry Peck · #3 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 01:37 PM

Ron,

This is the 2006 IRC wording, my answer, and why my answer is that:

- SECTION R309
- - GARAGES AND CARPORTS

- - - R309.1 Opening protection.

Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted. Other openings between the garage and residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) in thickness, solid or honeycomb core steel doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors.

"Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted."

No, that door is not allowed.

The closet is part of the bedroom, it is part of what makes a room a 'bedroom', also, the closet, as part of a bedroom, requires AFCI protection for any and all circuits which have outlets in the bedroom (and closet).

The simple solution is to make a 3' deep alcove with another door to the closet, separating the closet from the garage.

Ron Gries · #4 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 02:31 PM

Thanks for your quick response, both of you. I can now finish my report.

Richard Stanley · #5 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 04:26 PM

How about if the "fire" door was between the bedroom and the closet?

Markus Keller · #6 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 07:32 AM

Jerry, I am surprised how lenient the IRC is on the door. Our Code also does not allow an exit path through a bedroom. However, our Code requires at least a B door or 3 hour steel door, (it's been a while, I don't remember exactly) between a DU and an attached garage. No wood door at all allowed I remember that for sure. Must also have rated jamb and rated self-closer and rated hinges.

Jerry Peck · #7 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Keller

Jerry, I am surprised how lenient the IRC is on the door. Our Code also does not allow an exit path through a bedroom. However, our Code requires at least a B door or 3 hour steel door, (it's been a while, I don't remember exactly) between a DU and an attached garage. No wood door at all allowed I remember that for sure. Must also have rated jamb and rated self-closer and rated hinges.

Markus,

The only reason to have a door like that would be if the wall itself is a "fire rated assembly", and to require a 3 hour rated door would indicate that was a 4 hour rated wall.

I think you are thinking of something else ... could you go back and check it? Thanks.

Jerry McCarthy · #8 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 01:35 PM

Let's talk about a walk-in bedroom closet separated from the bedroom by a door being considered an integral part of the bedroom? (sleeping room)

Jerry Peck · #9 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

Let's talk about a walk-in bedroom closet separated from the bedroom by a door being considered an integral part of the bedroom? (sleeping room)

Okay ... but first explain what you just said (I thought that's what were we already talking about).

Jerry McCarthy · #10 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 06:15 PM

Just being silly Jerry. BUT, if one has to walk through a doored space into another doored space I miss the point of why you want to say the closet space doesn't count as a true separation from the garage to bedroom. Of course I'm assuming the door from the garage into the closet is a fire rated door, etc.

PS: I’m also aware there is no such word as “doored” but I know you get my drift.

(this should make for a good discussion?)

Billy Stephens · #11 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Ron,

This is the 2006 IRC wording, my answer, and why my answer is that:

- SECTION R309
- - GARAGES AND CARPORTS

- - - R309.1 Opening protection.

Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted.
.

The closet is part of the bedroom,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

I miss the point of why you want to say the closet space doesn't count as a true separation from the garage to bedroom.

Jerry Mc.,

If the closet space is considered part of the bedroom I don't see how the garage door would be allowed.

Closet doors are changed or removed (mirrored ,bia., latts ect.)

Please elaborate how the closet space is not considered part of a bedroom.

Jerry Peck · #12 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

BUT, if one has to walk through a doored space into another doored space I miss the point of why you want to say the closet space doesn't count as a true separation from the garage to bedroom.

Because the closet is part of the 'private bedroom' and many people leave "closet doors" open or ajar - as there is no real reason to close them.

Thus, you end up with a bedroom and its closet opening directly to the garage.

The closet is 'part of' the bedroom, and no bedroom ("room used for sleeping purposes") is allowed to open directly to a garage - the 'part of the bedroom' which is a closet does (in this case) open directly to the garage, hence 'the bedroom' opens directly to the garage (which is not allowed).

Markus Keller · #13 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 07:30 PM

Jerry, your answer was correct. The items I mentioned were for garage/repair shop separation.
On the DU/attached garage separation Chicago Code states:
1 hr. separation, only one access door no more than 21 sqft in size, self-closing door not less fire-resistive than a solid wood door one and three-quarters inches thick; sill not less than 8 inches above the garage floor.
Correction posted.

Jerry McCarthy · #14 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 07:45 PM

Jerry P said: “Because the closet is part of the 'private bedroom' and many people leave "closet doors" open or ajar - as there is no real reason to close them. Thus, you end up with a bedroom and its closet opening directly to the garage.”

I say: I cannot buy that argument in that many folks take the automatic closer, if there is one, off the door between the garage and house and leave it open a crack or even wide open. Is not a walk-in closet a separate space in an R-3 residential dwelling? If so how can a bedroom open directly into a garage when it actually opens into a closet that opens into a garage?

I can't find any definitive reference in the codes to my dilemma and if you can I will stand corrected, chastised, ashamed, and suitably contrite.

Jerry Peck · #15 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

Is not a walk-in closet a separate space in an R-3 residential dwelling?

Do lights in bedroom walk-in closets require AFCI protection?

Jerry McCarthy · #16 (**permalink**) 03-14-2008, 05:40 AM

Yes and? Come on JP, you can make a better argument than that. Until somebody shoots down my two doors between a bedroom and garage theory I'll stick to my argument. BTW, because somebody could possibly change a door or remove it doesn't fly with me.

Rick Cantrell · #17 (**permalink**) 03-14-2008, 06:11 AM

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Richard Stanley · #18 (**permalink**) 03-14-2008, 06:42 AM

AND if the closet is considered part of the bedroom and requires afci for its electrical outlets AND if the bedroom is a habitable room, THEN lighting should be required for the closet!!!

Markus Keller · #19 (**permalink**) 03-14-2008, 07:40 AM

The idea of considering the closet or walk-in closet as a separate room between the bedroom/garage doesn't work at least on the following 2 points:
1- closet most likely doesn't meet minimum sqft requirements to be considered a habitable room;
2- the bedroom is still within the exit path
Trying to rationalize that the closet scenario is OK, is just that, rationalization (bullshit)
so ...
- why not cut another access into a hallway a few feet over?
- make it an office until the deal is done?