.
Several.

__________________
It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie!
Billy J. Stephens HI Service
Memphis TN.

Sorry, but I do tend to ignore some questions designed to twist the subject matter into something else.


I also ignore questions that are incomprehensible and based on incorrect opinions.


This subject is so simple its scary that so many are lost in it.


Reread my posts and you should catch on.

First, forget the 2x4 thing, its not a disputed test just not the ONLY ONE that SHOULD BE DONE!

Concentrate on trying to understand why DASMA, and some other sources want to prevent us from doing a force setting check.

Hint, there are a few reasons.

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Bold is mine.

1. Several

2. Bruce I have an Engineering Background as well ( 30 + ) done work for / worked for many Fortune 100 Companies.

Do not believe everything I read.

But I am Baffled by a Garage Door !

Thank You for clearing this up for each & All.

Attached Images

Banging Head on Ground.gif (4.2 KB, 57 views)

__________________
It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie!
Billy J. Stephens HI Service
Memphis TN.

Your welcome.

LMAO!


Here are more links that have the force setting check in the procedure:

National Garage Door Co.


CodeDodger Fact Sheet

Garage Door Openers

I just write something up in the report stating that the old style pressure reverse door openers are only there to prevent entrapment, and not to prevent crushing injuries. I recommend they upgrade to a new/ safe door opener.

Not backpedaling, just coasting, waiting for you to catch up.

Sometimes I am just too dense, but you can explain it to me: How can you "test" for something which is arbitrary and changes from "test" (you testing it) to "test" (you testing it) and from "tester" (you) to "tester" (Ted)?

In order to "test" something, you must have something (some standard or goal) to meet.

I guess I am just to dense for your arbitrary reasoning, having been in quality control, test, and R&D.

The first requirement for a proper "test" is to establish something to "test for". And "reasonable" does not cut it.

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Ah ha!

We have found the problem.

Jerry, while you have been coasting along thinking that you are a scientist and everyone else is stupid, the world has passed you by.

Common sense and testing techniques go a long ways with garage doors.

As I said before, it may take some inspectors a year to get the feel of this very important test (force setting).

Once you get to the point of being able to do this arbitrary test you will be on board with being able to find many doors that are adjusted way too high and without damaging any in the process. (The first step is a careful examination of the door hardware to prevent testing damage)

It takes concentration, self awareness of your strength applied and most of all common sense and experience. I do not recommend anyone that disagrees with me to ever inspect a garage door. You do not have the common sense to do it and you or someone else could get hurt. Please refer it to someone else. Just don't refer it to a garage door tech, most of them don't know how to do it right either or at least their work product indicates that!


Since NC asks or requires this (its required unless you state that you did not do it and the reason for not doing it), all good inspectors concerned with their client and providing a quality service have trained themselves how to recognize a reasonable force.


It does not have to exact, if you had any experience with it you would know the difference in the feel of "about 10-15 pounds" as compared to "hey this door is not stopping".

Since I have had the chance to feel the force on many force setting certified openers (i-drive type) I do know how to issue my opinion very well.


In case you forgot Jerry, or never knew, we as home inspectors are hired, trusted, expected and allowed to issue our opinion.


Oh, before I forget, the argument about the force being different at other places along the track? Thats a minor issue if you know how to begin the inspection with a thorough checkout with the opener disconnected to look for problem areas along the travel. The mechanical advantage issue is not a major item since a good inspector will test the door at areas other than horizontal or near horizontal. And understanding the spring or torque tube function and knowing how to make sure it is close also. (thats another arbitrary test that you failed to knock down, is it because it is supported by DASMA, your favorite website?


Bottom line, it takes talent to inspect a garage door, no procedure is going to enable everyone to perform it correctly, so keep your hands off them doors Jerry until you stop coasting and accept the fact that there is way more to this than written codes, procedures and posted association guidlines.

I should be getting paid for this but at least I know there are many people that will read this and understand.

Remember folks, a 2x4 test DOES NOT tell you anything at all about the force setting on an opener unless parts start flying!

The hand/arm test tells you very quickly if a door is out of force adjustment.
Unless you are going to repair that door, the amount of error is not an issue at all. Refer the repair to a knowledgeble person.

FWIW I certainly appreciate EC Jerry's basis of argument, but resist buying the "2x4 smash test" to confirm door retraction and would definately adopt Scott Patterson's protocol in reporting overhead garage doors.
I'm done here.

__________________
Jerry McCarthy
Construction Consultant
www.expertbuildingconsultants.com

gees

I have been so nice staying out of this controversy but then my name got thrown back into it.


My response is one that has not changed. I test the photos. I test the reverse with the stupid 2x4 (doesn't matter) that says absolutely nothing except the door may or may not reverse.

I test with my hand, probably lower than a baby sitting on his but with my hand, with light pressure. If the door does not immediately (forget the 2 seconds) I inform my clients. I also inform my clients that these are just preliminary test and nothing definitive and they should get their garage door checked by a garage door company (or some one from the brainiac institute on the east coast of Florida) immediately and periodically and it *is* recommended once a month (stupid look from clients saying oh yeah I will pay to have some one come out once a month)

Better to test with light pressure (don't say a word Jerry Peck) and see if it at least reverses with that light pressure, than to not check at all.

Darn. I might as well add this.

Gee folks I will not test with any pressure at all because I am afraid of liability. So, while you are moving in and the photos stop working and you wittle kid trips and falls under the door just as it is closing, you will have absolutely know idea if the pressure reverse mechanism works what so ever until the door reverses or CRUSHES YOUR FREEKING LITTLE KIDS HEAD.

Light pressure folks, light pressure folks, light pressure folks. And tell them it is not definitive and should get the door checked by a garage door company. You could (most likely not) possibly save a life.

You know what ,you highly technical folks. It may just save a life. If it does not reverse at all then you write it up as in need of repair and your client *might* just get it paid for by the seller and have everything just hunky doory (get it) before they move in.

No matter what, you are writing it up anyway for them to follow up with a garage door company. BECAUSE YOUR TESTS ARE NOT DEFINITIVE. IS THAT SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND. YOU COVER YOUR PRECIOUS BACK SIDE. YOU COVER YOUR CLIENTS BACK SIDE. YOU *MIGHT* JUST SAVE A LIFE.

NOW WHICH PART DO SOME OF YOU NOT UNDERSTAND.

I tell everyone of my clients of the tremendous importance of GFCI receptacles. I tell them of a friends house that burnt down from the toaster shorting. If they had GFCI it would have kept their house from burning down. Simple short (just like you getting shocked) button pops out. House does not burn down. Is it an absolute, no. Does my testing with a stupid little gfci tester give it an absolute, no. BUT BY TESTING, TALKING, WRITING, EXPLAINING, YOU MIGHT JUST SAVE A LIFE. DOING ALL THAT WILL MAKE IT STICK WITH THEM MUCH BETTER THAN JUST SAYING "I DO NOT TEST BECAUSE SOME STUPID COMPANY (DOES IT SAY ANYWHERE YOU EVEN HAVE TO LISTEN TO THEM) DIDN'T TELL ME TO AND I CAN NOT DEFINE ADEQUATE PRESSURE.

Some times this highly technical, well, stuff, goes just a little to far away from common sense and possibly can do more harm than good.

OK, I'm all done now.

Going back to my late afternoon Knapp now.

__________________
Ted Menelly
"Castle"
Home Inspection Services

Wondering if I should even enter the discussion ...(oh what the heck!), I built an "auto-reverse tester" complete with a 1.5" load sensor and digital gauge, 110volt AND 12 volt. Thought I had the cats meow on that one, tested many doors over #350 when finally reversing 1.5" from the ground. Then (I think it was Jerry) someone on here reminded me that there is no recognized standard as to how much force can be applied before a door must auto-reverse and until that day comes I was opening myself up to legal problems. I do think the 2 x 4 is a partial test because it leaves out the force applied, but how do you test to the manufactures specs and still protect the consumer from over-applied forces? Here-in lies the dilema...

I was going to build one too but don't want to haul it around, especially since I know how to do a very good test without it.

The liability is nothing to worry about when you do your best, the liability is when you fail to inform your clients of the property conditions using normal inspection skills. We have no SOP that says we have to ensure it meets the manufacturers specs. Mine says I have to make sure it stops when meeting a reasonable force. The definition of reasonable is all up to the inspector in NC.


Many of the openers have force adjustments that can be reached easily while standing on the ground, so we can not be held liable for whatever adjustments someone makes after we leave the property.


Here's a tip, on every single opener that I have found operating in a reasonable manner, the ones that had the force adjustment (1 turn pot)visible were setting between the 4 o'clock and 6 o'clock position or in terms of percentage of full potentiometer travel, around 35 to 50 percent of maximum.

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Tell me Bruce how do you report Mold ?

__________________
It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie!
Billy J. Stephens HI Service
Memphis TN.

I'm not a mold inspector but will report anything that I see while on the property that appears to be a mold like substance to my client and recommend appropriate action as necessary.


Billy, why do feel it is necessary to change the subject?


Mold issues are not considered anywhere near the same as opener issues, but you know that right? Hint, it takes a lab to make conclusive decisions about mold but door opener issues only requires a good inspector with the right knowledge and desire to provide all of the safety checks readily available without the use of special tools.

Billy, Why don't you have a website with sample reports?
Work for a lot of realtors huh?

Bruce

Now I am going to make my point about sample inspection reports.

I do not supply any one for any reason a sample report. There is no need.

Maybe one reason is because all inspection report formatting is the same in Texas. Maybe a slightly different look but the same.

No 2 homes are the same and no 2 homes are going to be written the same. One inspection report has absolutely nothing to do with the home you are about to inspect.

If some one wants a sample I give them the TREC website. They may even say (practically never) "No but I want to see what you write" Write about what? "Well what would you say about the shingles?" It depends if the shingles and flashing may have a concern. "What do you say about foundations?" Well that depends if there is any concerns with your foundation

Really. What is a sample report for?

__________________
Ted Menelly
"Castle"
Home Inspection Services

Ted,

Most of my clients have hired other inspectors in the past and ended up unhappy with the inspection and report.

They like to know that some details will be provided instead of referring everything to someone else.

Some clients actually have the expertise to make many repairs themselves and are happy to have a list of what is really wrong, not that its just "wrong".


Its the next wave of reporting, I have always done it and don't have to rely on agents at all. I have two agents that send their friends and family to me but the others know where to find an average inspection and average report that helps with the commission checks and reduces workload negotiating and managing repairs.

Clients are getting way smarter these days, especially in this area.

Does texas not allow any custom narratives in the report or what?

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I'm just curious how " Captain Courageous " would handle this issue.

If you search my area the web is saturated with HI's .

You've seen the type Ain't I the One !!! I Inspect By Manufacturers Installation Instructions, (when they really don't) Bla, Bla.Bla.

BTW That's a Nice Link straight to a Realtor on your site. ( How can you offer to get someone a termite inspection from some other company for $55.00?)

__________________
It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie!
Billy J. Stephens HI Service
Memphis TN.

(see comments added above to each section)