.... so the buyer, AKA My Shadow, says "when we were here the other day, the garage door opener didn't work. Will you test it?"

TEST COMPLETE

I've wrinkeled a few of the doors made from old beer cans, but never had one blow up before! Less than estimated 10 lbs. resistance to closing when door stopped moving but the motor didn't. Looked up and the tracks were bowed like wet noodles. Almost ran over My Shadow, getting out of the way. See pics.

Attached Images

	080801her 092.jpg (24.3 KB, 181 views)
	080801her 129.jpg (19.0 KB, 158 views)

I feel your pain.


I had a buyer push the button for me. When I was waiting for the door to come down and I was looking at the buyer. The top 2 panels literally folded in on top of me. Luckily the seller was standing out side and saw the whole thing.

He said don't worry about it. Because of the slight creases in the top he was going to put a new one in anyway.

As he was laughing about it I laughed along and said "good, you need one"

What a way to end an inspection.

__________________
Ted Menelly
"Castle"
Home Inspection Services

__________________
Jerry McCarthy
Construction Consultant
www.expertbuildingconsultants.com

Vern,

How are you guessing at that force?

Were you holding the door with your hands to check the automatic reverse?

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Vern, dont feel bad. I was doing an older home (early 70s) a few weeks ago when I went into the garage, I was admiring the newly installed garage doors with torsion springs and new openers. One of two doors was opened, so I hit the button and it closed with a fine sound. When I hit the second button, (the closed door), I noticed it didnt do anything except make some noise. As I was scrambling to pull the opener electrical cord, it was too late. The pop riveted brace had ripped clear through the door. When I looked at the door, I noticed the lock was engaged into the track. I offered to fix or pay for it, but the client (who thankfully bought the property) said dont worry about it. He indicated it was his fault because when he arrived at the property the power cord was pulled from the receptacle and he plugged it in (but failed to disengage the lock). Needless to say, I felt terrible and learned a valuable lesson from the experience. Maybe I need to paint a little garage door on the front fender of my vehicle with a little red slash through it indicating I took one out.

Why did the door fail?

__________________
Michael Thomas
Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
http://paragoninspects.com

I stand sideways to the door with my arm bent at the elbow (gets my hand at about the same height as the BMW tail lights), feet together (so i'll tip over if i'm feeling strong), and estimate the weight of 2 sacks of suggar. Didn't have time to swing my foot infront of the elect. eye...just duck for cover.

The seller had left to run some errand and the buyer asked what happens with the door? All I could do was assure her it would be fixed. Lucky enough the listing agent showed up and when I told her what happend she said they would take care of it. I suspect the home owner had made repairs and everybody new it was a booby trap.

Hello Vern,

"Testing" the garage door by using your arms is not an appropriate method for several reasons.

For starters, that is not how to test the contact reversal feature. Even if the door stops and goes back up you are giving incorrect information to the client by telling them it is working.

As you know, it can break the door and it did not "fail under test" since the testing method is not a recognized test.

Regardless of it being a good, bad or a flawed test, the only recognized test of the contact reversal fearture as determined by DASMA is a 2x4 laid flat under the door.

The purpose of the door contact reversal test (with a 2x4) is to see that the door stops within 2 seconds and goes back up. It is not an anti-injury or anti-crush test.

Additionally, do you really think that using a body part is a good idea to stop a moving object?

Sincerely,

Corey

Another good example of why I do not test garage door openers. I will check the electric eyes and I will disengage the door from the track to test it's balance, but I will not, repeat WILL NOT test the reverse feature on an opener. I stopped doing this way back on March 11th, 1998. A day that is embossed in my mind!

So for over 10 years and around 3,000 inspections later I have never had a problem not inspecting the reverse feature on an opener. I have found many doors that are weak, have broken rollers, broken henge's, broken brackets, and the vast majority are not balanced properly. Before I moved I use to stick an orange label on the door or opener that says that reverse feature has not been inspected by Trace Inspections, LLC. It also told whoever that they needed to consult with the openers manufacturer for proper monthly testing procedures for the homeowner.

As Vern discovered, the door is at its full force when it is traveling down, and doors can be damaged as Vern discovered when you test a door like this. You need to know and understand how the doors and their balance springs work. I'm not trying to dish Vern but unfortunately this is how we all learn.

I hope that if you are testing garage doors that you are using the only approved testing method and that is with a 2X4 board placed flat on the ground under the garage opening and in the path of the door.

__________________
Scott Patterson
Spring Hill, TN
http://www.traceinspections.com

Pooooh

Here we go with the only approved test thing and I aint gonna test em

Like I said


Poooh

__________________
Ted Menelly
"Castle"
Home Inspection Services

In all due respect to those that subscribe to the 2x4 theory it’s just bad engineering and as Cory said proves dam near nothing except that after killing a slow moving house cat or God forbid Junior, the garage overhead door retracted so that the corpse could be safely removed.

__________________
Jerry McCarthy
Construction Consultant
www.expertbuildingconsultants.com

Here is the NC SOP section for this topic where Vern inspects:



(b) The home inspector shall:

(4) Report whether or not any garage door operator will automatically reverse or stop when meeting reasonable resistance during closing

Exactly, Does anyone really think the opener manufacturer is going to recommend a body part be used for testing? hahahhaha!

A 2x4 can't sue anyone.

Most of the manufactures installation instructions say " must reverse whith reasonable resistance" or something to that effect. Sears is the only one I have found that uses the 2X4. How much force does it take to crush a 2X4 instead of the door? We stop moving objects all the time with body parts. It is hard to determine reasonable resistance with a piece of wood.
N.C. Standards of Practice state: "inspector shall: Report wether or not any garage door operator will automatically reverse or stop when meeting reasonable resistance during closing".

From now on I will stand looking at the top of the door with one foot ready to break the elec. eye. If it still crushes the door....so be it.

And we all know, or those of us who have been in the profession long enough know that the NC law has some quarks in their requirements as do a few other states. Doesn't the NC law also say if inspecting _____ could cause harm or injury that it should not be inspected? I would be surprised if it does not have this verbiage buried in it somewhere.

__________________
Scott Patterson
Spring Hill, TN
http://www.traceinspections.com

Scott, good point there...

From NC SOP:

(b) Home inspectors are not required to:

(3) Enter any area or perform any procedure that may damage the property or its components or be dangerous to or adversely affect the health or safety of the home inspector or other persons;




Since we have several online message boards that prove testing for force reversal using a reasonable force test method, (not a 2x4, that does not provide any information about a reasonable force as required by NC) can cause door damage, it would be reasonable to not choose a hands on testing method. Now, I would think that someone has busted a door with the 2x4 method also, but they don't seem to admit it on here. Keep in mind that only about 2-3 percent of home inspectors participate in online discussions.

So I can get a neck cramp looking up a chimney flue, get shocked looking inside a main or sub panel, or bang my head on a framing member while entering a attic space . I think the excuse for not inspecting is weak. The whole business is a risk that we have chosen to take.

I must say that I no longer take the covers off any FPE or Zinsco panels. I report their known problems. As for attics, I have opted not to inspect a few due to low clearances, same for some crawl spaces. I have also had a few chimneys that I could not open the damper without it falling apart, so I could not inspect the flue.

But we also have to learn from the mistakes of others and many of us have screwed up and crumpled a garage door over the years. I would bet that those of us who have crumpled a door have only done it once.

__________________
Scott Patterson
Spring Hill, TN
http://www.traceinspections.com

Scott,

Most times by the time you recognize the danger its to late. Ref. your post a few months ago, with the knot on the top of your head.