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Thread: Flue Liners

  1. #1
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Flue Liners

    I see unlined chimneys like this regularly. I usually recommend just a cap and screen if they will only be using gas logs, or a new liner if they intend to burn wood.

    What does eveyone else recommend for these?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Aaron,

    That's a tear down and rebuild ... the only mortar they used was on the top to try to help shed water away from *THE STACKED* brick.

    Now that is an example of "the stack effect".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  3. #3
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Aaron,

    That's a tear down and rebuild ... the only mortar they used was on the top to try to help shed water away from *THE STACKED* brick.

    Now that is an example of "the stack effect".
    JP: But hey, it was only two feet tall, so it won't fall far.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    JP: But hey, it was only two feet tall,
    Only two feet tall? Then what is below it?

    so it won't fall far.
    It will fall pretty far ... it will fall ... all the way to the ground.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  5. #5
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Only two feet tall? Then what is below it?



    It will fall pretty far ... it will fall ... all the way to the ground.
    JP: Maybe. It was in a part of town where they have so much money that even the laws of physics don't always apply.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Whatever you do, don't just pass it off to a "professional" to fix it. I had one very similar over in your neck of the woods (Garland) and went back twice to check on the repairs and found two different "Brick and Fireplace experts" and found all they did was to clean it and fix the spalling brick on the exterior. Neither guy even attempted to address the interior even though I took pictures and spelled out what was wrong in plain English... Humm, maybe the English was the problem. (No hable' espanole)
    But the picture were pretty plain in any language.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  7. #7
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Whatever you do, don't just pass it off to a "professional" to fix it. I had one very similar over in your neck of the woods (Garland) and went back twice to check on the repairs and found two different "Brick and Fireplace experts" and found all they did was to clean it and fix the spalling brick on the exterior. Neither guy even attempted to address the interior even though I took pictures and spelled out what was wrong in plain English... Humm, maybe the English was the problem. (No hable' espanole)
    But the picture were pretty plain in any language.
    Jim: There's no other choice than to defer to the expert, unless you want to be that expert. How they choose to screw it up is not my concern.


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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    Jim: There's no other choice than to defer to the expert,...
    True, I guess my phrasing is not up to par.

    My point is that true experts in the field seem to be in short supply in this area, especially ones willing to work for a seller on a budget.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  9. #9
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Jim

    "My point is that true experts in the field seem to be in short supply in this area, especially ones willing to work for a seller on a budget."

    How true

    Aaron

    "There's no other choice than to defer to the expert, unless you want to be that expert. How they choose to screw it up is not my concern."

    Did you just say that??


  10. #10
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    True, I guess my phrasing is not up to par.

    My point is that true experts in the field seem to be in short supply in this area, especially ones willing to work for a seller on a budget.
    Jim: Agreed. But, there are still a few out there, scattered widely about.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Left hand flue. It's an exterior chimney, this flue is venting two pairs of GFAFs and WHs. Yes, know that's wrong... as are a number of other things at both the top and bottom of this chimney.

    Borrowing the thread, however, to to ask what I'm seeing here: what is the crescent of "silver material" at lower left?

    If it's cement, how did the section of flu tile above get displaced? If not, what is it?

    - Thanks

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    Smile Re: Flue Liners

    All chimneys must be lined. All chimneys must be suitable for the class of service. If the chimney cannot perform that function, it must be repaired or rebuilt. Even when you reline, the liner listing requires at least one wythe of nominal 4" brick that is structurally intact.

    Michael, it appears from there you have a mis-aligned flue. This results in a reduction in the effective flue area and bilateral breeches in the joint. The crescent appears to be backing masonry that should not be visible. Based on the info. about the 4 appliances common vented into this, you would still probably need a liner just for sizing. BTW, you can legally common vent WHs with furnaces but as we've discussed before, it defeats three safety mechanisms in the furnace and can allow the furances to vent out the WH draft hoods. We also discussed the repair.

    Bob

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Harper View Post
    ... it appears from there you have a mis-aligned flue. This results in a reduction in the effective flue area and bilateral breeches in the joint. The crescent appears to be backing masonry that should not be visible. Based on the info. about the 4 appliances common vented into this, you would still probably need a liner just for sizing. BTW, you can legally common vent WHs with furnaces but as we've discussed before, it defeats three safety mechanisms in the furnace and can allow the furances to vent out the WH draft hoods. We also discussed the repair.

    Bob
    Bob,

    Thanks for your response.

    Sorry if some of my questions seem pretty basic, but I have no one local to ask, and I assume that the questions/answers must be useful to at least some other people here as well.

    - If that is in fact backing masonry, does that mean that the flu tile was installed that far out of alignment, or is there some way that the tiles can shift that far despite the backing mortar and without obvious damage at the exterior of the chimney?

    - Does anyone here know the specific link to the thread Bob is referencing?

    - Thanks

    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    - Does anyone here know the specific link to the thread Bob is referencing?

    Michael,

    Many threads on many topics with many posts to varying degrees.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Michael what kind of ladder is that, looks like tongs on the top, what is there purpose. Handrail?
    Also just curious if you would say anything about the tar covered cricket leaking or not. Haven't seen that here.

    Mike Schulz License 393
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Michael scratch that found your post in another thread, Would like to know where to find them.

    Mike Schulz License 393
    Affordable Home Inspections
    www.houseinspections.com

  17. #17
    Jeff Allison's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Every chimney must be lined? Is this a 100% fact?

    I see an enormous amount of homes in Phila. area that have unlined chimneys.

    No fireplaces just venting gas or oil heaters and HW heaters.

    I always recommend a Level 2 inspection by a chimney tech when I see an unlined chimney as I do not have a camera or the expertise to sign off that an unlined chimney is safe.

    Anyway.... Anyone know what the material must be for the liners in certain applications?

    Gas appliances, no fire place: Aluminum or Stainless?
    Oil appliances, no fireplace: Aluminum or stainless?
    Gas/Oil, w/ fireplace: I know stainless or poured.

    Thanks,

    Jeff


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Those chimneys are rebuilds. Liners, rain cap, pointing, likely a lot of spalling. Oil fired furnace exhaust mixes with moisture to form carbonic acid. Not good.


  19. #19
    Jeff Allison's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    I know the steel, poured, and aluminum are rebuilds.

    I am asking if every chimney needs to be lined even if there is no fireplace?

    I am also asking what applications dictate the "New" liner to be aluminum, steel, or poured.

    From my knowledge:

    Aluminum: gas fired appliances
    Steel: Oil or gas fired fired appliances
    Poured: Chimney that is is disrepair and needs to be structruarly repaired.

    Yes, no.... what?

    Thanks!


  20. #20
    Dave Taurinskas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    I ran across a fireplace that had been converted from wood to a gas log set (not a direct vent). The fireplace still had the fire brick with a clay liner (no metal liner) and the damper had not been mechanically "fixed" to restrict closing it less than 1". I always called out any gas appliance that was exhausting into an unlined flue...but maybe I'm wrong here. Question? Is there a code or any published "rule" that I can get a copy of where it spells out what must be done with this type of conversion?


  21. #21
    Jack Murdock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flue Liners

    Dave,
    In New England we refer to NFPA 211 for chimneys and fireplaces and for gas questions NFPA 54 and 58 and / or IRC which most of of our local state codes are based on. The log set manufacturers instructions would be the best place to start.

    Jack


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