Thread: Flue Liners

I see unlined chimneys like this regularly. I usually recommend just a cap and screen if they will only be using gas logs, or a new liner if they intend to burn wood.

What does eveyone else recommend for these?

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Aaron,

That's a tear down and rebuild ... the only mortar they used was on the top to try to help shed water away from *THE STACKED* brick.

Now that is an example of "the stack effect".

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Aaron,

That's a tear down and rebuild ... the only mortar they used was on the top to try to help shed water away from *THE STACKED* brick.

Now that is an example of "the stack effect".

JP: But hey, it was only two feet tall, so it won't fall far.

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

JP: But hey, it was only two feet tall,

Only two feet tall? Then what is below it?

so it won't fall far.

It will fall pretty far ... it will fall ... all the way to the ground.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Only two feet tall? Then what is below it?



It will fall pretty far ... it will fall ... all the way to the ground.

JP: Maybe. It was in a part of town where they have so much money that even the laws of physics don't always apply.

Whatever you do, don't just pass it off to a "professional" to fix it. I had one very similar over in your neck of the woods (Garland) and went back twice to check on the repairs and found two different "Brick and Fireplace experts" and found all they did was to clean it and fix the spalling brick on the exterior. Neither guy even attempted to address the interior even though I took pictures and spelled out what was wrong in plain English... Humm, maybe the English was the problem. (No hable' espanole)
But the picture were pretty plain in any language.

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

Whatever you do, don't just pass it off to a "professional" to fix it. I had one very similar over in your neck of the woods (Garland) and went back twice to check on the repairs and found two different "Brick and Fireplace experts" and found all they did was to clean it and fix the spalling brick on the exterior. Neither guy even attempted to address the interior even though I took pictures and spelled out what was wrong in plain English... Humm, maybe the English was the problem. (No hable' espanole)
But the picture were pretty plain in any language.

Jim: There's no other choice than to defer to the expert, unless you want to be that expert. How they choose to screw it up is not my concern.

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

Jim: There's no other choice than to defer to the expert,...

True, I guess my phrasing is not up to par.

My point is that true experts in the field seem to be in short supply in this area, especially ones willing to work for a seller on a budget.

Jim

"My point is that true experts in the field seem to be in short supply in this area, especially ones willing to work for a seller on a budget."

How true

Aaron

"There's no other choice than to defer to the expert, unless you want to be that expert. How they choose to screw it up is not my concern."

Did you just say that??

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

True, I guess my phrasing is not up to par.

My point is that true experts in the field seem to be in short supply in this area, especially ones willing to work for a seller on a budget.

Jim: Agreed. But, there are still a few out there, scattered widely about.

Left hand flue. It's an exterior chimney, this flue is venting two pairs of GFAFs and WHs. Yes, know that's wrong... as are a number of other things at both the top and bottom of this chimney.

Borrowing the thread, however, to to ask what I'm seeing here: what is the crescent of "silver material" at lower left?

If it's cement, how did the section of flu tile above get displaced? If not, what is it?

- Thanks

All chimneys must be lined. All chimneys must be suitable for the class of service. If the chimney cannot perform that function, it must be repaired or rebuilt. Even when you reline, the liner listing requires at least one wythe of nominal 4" brick that is structurally intact.

Michael, it appears from there you have a mis-aligned flue. This results in a reduction in the effective flue area and bilateral breeches in the joint. The crescent appears to be backing masonry that should not be visible. Based on the info. about the 4 appliances common vented into this, you would still probably need a liner just for sizing. BTW, you can legally common vent WHs with furnaces but as we've discussed before, it defeats three safety mechanisms in the furnace and can allow the furances to vent out the WH draft hoods. We also discussed the repair.

Bob

Originally Posted by Bob Harper

... it appears from there you have a mis-aligned flue. This results in a reduction in the effective flue area and bilateral breeches in the joint. The crescent appears to be backing masonry that should not be visible. Based on the info. about the 4 appliances common vented into this, you would still probably need a liner just for sizing. BTW, you can legally common vent WHs with furnaces but as we've discussed before, it defeats three safety mechanisms in the furnace and can allow the furances to vent out the WH draft hoods. We also discussed the repair.

Bob

Bob,

Thanks for your response.

Sorry if some of my questions seem pretty basic, but I have no one local to ask, and I assume that the questions/answers must be useful to at least some other people here as well.

- If that is in fact backing masonry, does that mean that the flu tile was installed that far out of alignment, or is there some way that the tiles can shift that far despite the backing mortar and without obvious damage at the exterior of the chimney?

- Does anyone here know the specific link to the thread Bob is referencing?

- Thanks

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas

- Does anyone here know the specific link to the thread Bob is referencing?

Michael,

Many threads on many topics with many posts to varying degrees.

Michael what kind of ladder is that, looks like tongs on the top, what is there purpose. Handrail?
Also just curious if you would say anything about the tar covered cricket leaking or not. Haven't seen that here.

Michael scratch that found your post in another thread, Would like to know where to find them.

Every chimney must be lined? Is this a 100% fact?

I see an enormous amount of homes in Phila. area that have unlined chimneys.

No fireplaces just venting gas or oil heaters and HW heaters.

I always recommend a Level 2 inspection by a chimney tech when I see an unlined chimney as I do not have a camera or the expertise to sign off that an unlined chimney is safe.

Anyway.... Anyone know what the material must be for the liners in certain applications?

Gas appliances, no fire place: Aluminum or Stainless?
Oil appliances, no fireplace: Aluminum or stainless?
Gas/Oil, w/ fireplace: I know stainless or poured.

Thanks,

Jeff

Those chimneys are rebuilds. Liners, rain cap, pointing, likely a lot of spalling. Oil fired furnace exhaust mixes with moisture to form carbonic acid. Not good.

I know the steel, poured, and aluminum are rebuilds.

I am asking if every chimney needs to be lined even if there is no fireplace?

I am also asking what applications dictate the "New" liner to be aluminum, steel, or poured.

From my knowledge:

Aluminum: gas fired appliances
Steel: Oil or gas fired fired appliances
Poured: Chimney that is is disrepair and needs to be structruarly repaired.

Yes, no.... what?

Thanks!

I ran across a fireplace that had been converted from wood to a gas log set (not a direct vent). The fireplace still had the fire brick with a clay liner (no metal liner) and the damper had not been mechanically "fixed" to restrict closing it less than 1". I always called out any gas appliance that was exhausting into an unlined flue...but maybe I'm wrong here. Question? Is there a code or any published "rule" that I can get a copy of where it spells out what must be done with this type of conversion?

Dave,
In New England we refer to NFPA 211 for chimneys and fireplaces and for gas questions NFPA 54 and 58 and / or IRC which most of of our local state codes are based on. The log set manufacturers instructions would be the best place to start.

Jack