Thread: Gas Log Set

I am right that this is a log lighter that has been converted for use with a ceramic log set?

Jim, is this a statement or a question? Sorry, couldn't help bustin' on ya'

This appears to be your typical run of the mill vented "sand pan"-type gas logset. However, somebody vacuumed out all the sand (NG) or vermiculite (LP) causing it to massively overfire. From the pic, it would appear you have major heat stress at the top front of this Fp. Also, it would appear you have an illegal unlisted bay-type aftermarket glass enclosure over a factory built Fp. Good recipe for a fire. With that front acting as a hood trapping all that heat, God knows what the combustibles are like around this unit. What kind of facing? Is is well sealed? What is the condition of the top of the firebox? Any paint scorched away, rust, buckling?

I would note the make, model, and serial# of this Fp. Then I would look for same on gas logs. May be a plate on the rear of the burner pan or a metal tag on a leash often tucked under the pan. If there is a tag, there should be an ANSI std for Z21.60. If these logs are not listed, they should be removed anyway. Now, they are overfired and should be replaced due to improper use/ abuse. See how the base of the pan is all buckled? The massive sooting is from being fired without the sand or vermiculite. Also note the soot patterns not just at the rear but the sides. Instead of once nice truncated cone of soot up the rear, you have several soot trails indicating a very erratic, chaotic burn with some extending towards the front. This is also an indication the damper may not have been opened during firing.

The gas knockout is not properly sealed.

Is there a damper clamp in the proper position? Is the damper valve plate equally sooted on both sides or mainly one? Is there Black Particulate Matter all over the house?

FYI, log lighter pipes typically have a 1/2" black iron pipe entering the right side into a cast housing with a crude air shutter. The lighter pipe exits this shutter assembly and lies on the firebox floor with the burner ports facing down and to the rear. It is turned on and off by a key valve outside the firebox accessible within 6' (4' UMC).

HTH,
Bob

Bob,

Just wanted to tell you I enjoy your posts.

Your enthusiasm and knowledge of fireplaces is very much appreciated.

Rick Hurst

Wow, that's good!

Bob – when you see a question mark it is a question, and when you see (AGHS) it is a statement. (And God Has Spoken)

Haven’t been on the board in 2 months and right away I get my bricks broken – and from all people, you Bob! (Feels like home!)

Caught most of the defects on this one, I was just starting from an incorrect premise – the log lighter. I caught the mismatched glass enclosure, missing damper clamp, knock-out seal, and knew this had been misused but was not placing enough emphasis on it as a potential fire hazard.

It was a Majestic model R36, but I wasn’t pulling the log set apart to look for a listing plate. With that soot I was afraid I would be paying for fire restoration should it become air borne. But thanks for the advice on where to look for the plate, I was wondering where else to look.

The buyers would like to convert this back to a wood burning fireplace. I am concerned for potential damage that may have taken place behind the unit, do you think that is a legitimate concern?

I am returning this AM for a radon test pick-up and want to take a closer look at the top of the firebox for the conditions you mentioned.

Bob....

Are you aware of any ventless gas log sets that have the sand/vermiculite pans. It seems that to be ventless you have to have complete combustion and the sand would prevent this. Thanks for any input on this.

Originally Posted by Bob Harper

FYI, log lighter pipes typically have a 1/2" black iron pipe entering the right side into a cast housing with a crude air shutter. The lighter pipe exits this shutter assembly and lies on the firebox floor with the burner ports facing down and to the rear. It is turned on and off by a key valve outside the firebox accessible within 6' (4' UMC).

HTH,
Bob

Bob,
Any idea how they came up with 6'? Did they simply take it from IRC G2420.5? The 4' seems reasonable because one can keep on hand on the key valve while lighting the pipe.

It is an exercise in futility here getting builders to stop concealing the key valves inside cabinets next to the fireplace. And many times, the cabinet door is hinged on the fireplace side.

[Laughing]-- Hey Jim, G, I was wondering when you were going to surface. You are ususally the one correcting me! ;-)

James, there are some "dual listed" logs hitting the market that have both embers (rockwool) and a media difuser. However, the ones I'm familiar with employ a box full of broken car windshield glass. The 40,000 Chicklets create widers spaces thereby allowing more air and gas to mix inside the burner than as with sand or vermiculite. You'll see a difference in LP pan burners btw fine and coarse vermiculite. Sometimes, the original coarse stuff gets vacuumed up so they replace it with gardening (fine) vermiculite and it soots like hell.

Thom, the codes had to choose a point where house piping stops and "connectors" pick up. They chose 6 feet primarily because most gas ranges and dryers need this much slack in the 'connector" for service. Therefore, ALL gas lines must comply with the code's regs. for "piping" up to 6" of the appliance. Keep in mind, these shutoffs are not emergency shutoffs but are there for service convenience. That means they only have to be "accessible" and not "readily accessible". Being "accessible" allows them to be inside cabinets, behind trap doors, even behind a door that requires the removal of a dozen screws using ordinary tools. As long as the shutoff has enough clearance to turn wrenches and inspect it for leaks, you can legally stuff them into all sorts of places. Yes, sometimes you wish you had a valve locator sensor for the way they hide them.

Jim G., I'd be really worried about all that heat stress. If that unit was burning like a ventfree, Majestic only tests to 40,000 BTUs. I'll bet this one is normally 60K and without the sand, could be burning at over 100mbtu! Again, that bay would trap heat, too. This might acutally justify a Level III. MAybe Dale can chime in.

I agree not to disturb that sooted up mess. What I suggest is to use a telescopic mirror and flashlight or hold your digital camera back there. If the info is not readily visible, just note that and state you cannot disturb the set for fear of BPM escaping into the house. I'd CYA on the BPM anyway.

Have a good weekend!