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  1. #1
    Miki Ochi's Avatar
    Miki Ochi Guest

    Unhappy ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    We had a wood stove installed, and we had a waterleak from the chimny.
    We asked the stove company to fix it, and they just glued shingles around
    the chimny.

    We are wondering if it was necessary.Will it cause any problem in the future?
    We really don't like the look of it, so we would like to replace the
    shingles.
    Do you think it would cause any leak if we replace them? Because what they said was, because of the structure of the roof, water eventually comes to the chimney hole and leaks from there if they don't seal the shingles, and that's their standard procedure. Is it true?

    I just bought a house 2 weeks ago, and already feel like the value went down... I didn't pay 5K for this ugly roof.. I hope anybody can answer my questions.

    Thank you.


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  2. #2
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Don't know what they did where we cannot see it, but they butchered up everything they touched which we can see.

    Did they pull a permit?

    If not, I would call the city or county and make sure that contractor pulls a permit ... and corrects everything they did wrong. If they are even a licensed contractor.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    MO: Your contractor must work for 3M!


  4. #4
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Holy caulk seals Batman!!! That's some hideous work. You'd have been better off letting chimpanzees do the install.

    Caulk and tar is a band-aid and is no long term alternate for doing things the right way. What you're seeing here is a company that has no knowledge of or doesn't care about how their shorctuts and improper work can negatively impact you in other ways. I think you're better off getting another company to come in and complete the installation properly. Otherwise, you'll be spinning your wheels. But don't let the original clowns off the hook.


  5. #5
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    Cool Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    OMG. They laid the flashing on top of the shingles instead of weaving it under the upper half then laying it on top of the lower shingles. They should use plastic roof cement around the hole in a horseshoe shape open at the bottom for drainage. Done properly, there is no need to do anything with the shingles. At the most, you might want to use a dab of roof cement UNDER the shingles if the adhesive strip is not sticking or if done in cold weather where it will be months before the sun warms those shingles to re-seal them.
    The seams of the flashing should be caulked, preferrably with an aluminum colored silicone or gutter seal. Check with local codes and provide roof pitch as some locales may require pulling up shingles, laying down ice dam membrane then re-roofing around the hole then install the flashing.

    If they did this kind of work, I would be concerned about the rest of the installation including clearance to the roof deck (2").

    Get a different hearth pro in there.

    Hearthman

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Harper View Post
    If they did this kind of work, I would be concerned about the rest of the installation including clearance to the roof deck (2").
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Don't know what they did where we cannot see it, but they butchered up everything they touched which we can see.
    My concerns too, and not just the roof decking, but EVERYTHING not visible, well, in this case ... EVERYTHING ... not visible and visible - the visible stuff is typically a contractors *best work*, and if that is their *best work* ... as Bob said: "OMG".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
    Miki Ochi's Avatar
    Miki Ochi Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Thank you guys for your replies.

    I am very disappointed with what they did wrongly, and more than that, they said that's the standard.

    I will go to small claim court also, if they refuse to pay the repair bill.

    I was looking for some information about the repair, and seems like they didn't have flashing under the shingles like what it's supposed to...

    Do I need to call the roofer & the stove company other than the original one? ( I really don't want to see all glued up shingles anymore...)


  8. #8
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miki Ochi View Post
    Do I need to call the roofer & the stove company other than the original one? ( I really don't want to see all glued up shingles anymore...)

    Yes, but FIRST call your city or county and see if they pulled a permit, if not have the city (county) address first - that is free to you.

    Then make sure that first "contractor" (I use that term v-e-r-y lightly as they are not really a contractor in my mind) is licensed, either city, county, or state and go after them that way too.

    Then call a roofer and a stove company - making sure that both are licensed, and pull permits for their work.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Miki Ochi's Avatar
    Miki Ochi Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Thank you Jerry for your quick reply.

    Seems like the company has the construction lisence.
    and their work also passed the inspection right after the installation,
    before the glue problem. Actually the owner's son(may be like around high school or college boy?) did the most of the installation and ugly repair.

    Yes, I will call the city hall and check if they are lisenced, and if they pulled the permit.

    Until I started to collect some information, I almost believed what they did was the standard. I just kept crying and crying... I really appreciate you guys to let me know that they are wrong, and even more, which direction to go.

    Thank you very much!


  10. #10
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    Cool Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Miki, you need to know the mfr. of the factory chimney, then get their installation instructions as your main reference. There should be some detail in there on how to install this flashing.
    HTH,
    Bob

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  11. #11
    Miki Ochi's Avatar
    Miki Ochi Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Thank you, bob. Sounds like a great idea.

    They did pull the permit, and they were lisenced. Very disappointing that we can't trust the lisenced contractor...

    I will call some other stove company to find out the estimated repair cost, as well as the roof company.
    Also ask the inspector his opinion.

    I will keep everything documented, and show the original stove guys the proof that they did it wrong, and ask them to pay. If they refuse, I will go to small court.

    Is there anything else I should do?


  12. #12

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Miki,

    find out if you state has a construction contractor's board. If so, I would start by filing a complaint with them, and go from there.


  13. #13
    Mitchell Toelle's Avatar
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miki Ochi View Post
    Thank you, bob. Sounds like a great idea.

    They did pull the permit, and they were lisenced. Very disappointing that we can't trust the lisenced contractor...

    I will call some other stove company to find out the estimated repair cost, as well as the roof company.
    Also ask the inspector his opinion.

    I will keep everything documented, and show the original stove guys the proof that they did it wrong, and ask them to pay. If they refuse, I will go to small court.

    Is there anything else I should do?
    Besides checking with your State Contracting Board, the guy installing the unit and flue may need to be licensed specifically to do these installs (not a General License). Another concern is, the clearance to combustible materials as the flue passes through ceiling, attic, roof sheathing, etc. What about flue connections?This could be a total botched job and a hazard.

    Hope you get it worked out.


  14. #14
    Nolan Kienitz's Avatar
    Nolan Kienitz Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Additionally you can dig into shingle manufacturing sites and maybe find out what they approve or not ... for various sealing on "their shingles".

    GAF for example does not approve the use of silicone rubber for their composition line of shingles.

    There are products that are approved.

    With the images you showed ... I'd add some buckets below the decking to try and catch the drips.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Hello Miki,

    Just my $0.02....

    Don't let anyone touch it or do repairs until you give the original company a chance to correct it, review your complaint. Read any contracts carefully, there may be a clause that if you don't allow the original contractor (I use the term loosely) to at least view the complaints, they may not have to pay for repairs. That is IF you had any contracts from this company.

    It's fine to have other contractor's look at it, give written opinions, estimates, take pictures, etc. But just be careful not to void any chances of getting this repair paid for by the original company. I wouldn't allow them to do the repairs, but just be sure to cover your backside in this issue.

    Sorry to see this happen to folks asking for a simple job!

    Good luck and best wishes getting this repaired.

    Dave Hill
    Buyers & Sellers Property Inspections LLC
    WWW.BuyersSellersPi.Com

  16. #16
    Mike Truss Guy's Avatar
    Mike Truss Guy Guest

    Talking Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miki Ochi View Post
    We had a wood stove installed, and we had a waterleak from the chimny.
    We asked the stove company to fix it, and they just glued shingles around
    the chimny.

    We are wondering if it was necessary.Will it cause any problem in the future?
    We really don't like the look of it, so we would like to replace the
    shingles.
    Do you think it would cause any leak if we replace them? Because what they said was, because of the structure of the roof, water eventually comes to the chimney hole and leaks from there if they don't seal the shingles, and that's their standard procedure. Is it true?

    I just bought a house 2 weeks ago, and already feel like the value went down... I didn't pay 5K for this ugly roof.. I hope anybody can answer my questions.

    Thank you.


    wsglue01-2.jpg

    wsglue03.jpg
    That's exactly how I would have repaired it..So it's probably good that I never went into the roofing business.


  17. #17
    Roger P's Avatar
    Roger P Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Mike:

    re: "Seems like the company has the construction lisence.
    and their work also passed the inspection right after the installation"...

    Who was the person that performed the inspection,
    i.e. public code officer/inspector ?

    If it was a public official, I'd ask for a copy of that report. Then perhaps speak discreetly with their supervisor and show that supervisor your photo's and documentation.

    If any public official is allowing this kind of work to be passed, then they need to find another line of work.


  18. #18
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    Talking Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miki Ochi View Post
    Thank you, bob. Sounds like a great idea.

    They did pull the permit, and they were lisenced. Very disappointing that we can't trust the lisenced contractor...

    I will call some other stove company to find out the estimated repair cost, as well as the roof company.
    Also ask the inspector his opinion.

    I will keep everything documented, and show the original stove guys the proof that they did it wrong, and ask them to pay. If they refuse, I will go to small court.

    Is there anything else I should do?
    Miki,
    I see you have Washington listed as your location, are you here in Washington State? If so, here on the west side of the Cascades you can contact King5 Television and ask to have this story posted on the "Get Jesse" segment. Then, when it airs, everone here in the NW will be aware of this contractor's Hodge-Podge-Micky Mouse type of work.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Speaking of "roofing" jobs, this one showed up recently on one of the DYI boards:

    Need opinion on this roof - DIY Chatroom - DIY Home Improvement Forum

    and was brought to my attention by a local roofer because an "inspector" had supposedly blessed it...

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Hi, all &

    Geez - No strom collar on that stove pipe /chimney, either !?

    Call it "guaranteed to leak" !

    -Glenn Duxbury, CHI

  21. #21
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Hi, all &

    Geez - No strom collar on that stove pipe /chimney, either !?

    Call it "guaranteed to leak" !

    My '2 cents'...


    CHEERS !

    -Glenn Duxbury, CHI

  22. #22
    Phil Brody's Avatar
    Phil Brody Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Send a certified letter to the installer and give him ample time to rectify. If he fails then get a real roofer in and take it to small claims court. This is a very inexperienced roofer and it will fail over time.


  23. #23
    Miki Ochi's Avatar
    Miki Ochi Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Hi, guys

    Thank you very much for your replies.

    I live in East side of WA.

    I am so surprised that this would cagch so much attention.
    I guess their work is that bad, really really bad.

    ok, here is what I did and found out so far.

    *the company has a construction lisence.
    *they pulled the permit.
    *I found the installation manual for the metal chimny, which says
    "flashing should be under the shingles".
    *I called the other stove company to come check what they did, and
    give us the estimate of repair.
    *I called the house inspector to take a look and give us some opinion.

    Here is what I need to do, or find out.

    *check If they have a specific lisence for installing stoves, which I am sure they do.
    *check if our shingles can take any silicon sealant.
    *ask the inspector if he went up to the roof and looked at it.

    Then, I will send them a certified letter, probably give them a week to response. If they refuse to do anything, I will have other guys repair, and bring it to the small claim court to get money from them.

    IF they say they will repair it, I will be there, standing by them and videotaping everything they do.

    You guys are awesome! I hope everything will be fine.

    Thank you very much, guys. I will post the update.
    Have a wonderful weekend and holiday!


  24. #24
    Phil Brody's Avatar
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    When done properly no sealant is necessary, look at the plumbing flanges on the roof, they are probably done correctly and the same setup. They just cut a hole and slapped the flange on top with lots of ge clear sloppycon because they didn't feel like pulling up the shingles and doing it correctly. I just did a 3 car garage construction for a customer who set up a web cam and time lapse and recorded the whole 3 week project start to finish. I didn't mind because I have nothing to hide. Your contractor might refuse if you videotape him, I wouldn't be surprised. Looks like he did use stainless pipe. That's good news.


  25. #25
    Phil Brody's Avatar
    Phil Brody Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    You can also threaten him to take your pictures to the licensing bureau.


  26. #26

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    I wouldn't let the original "contractor" fix it. If he doesn't know what he's doing the first time...............


  27. #27
    Phil Brody's Avatar
    Phil Brody Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    In NY if you don't give the original contractor a chance at correcting the problem you stand a slim chance at collecting in small claims and you would definitely need to bring in an "Expert" to testify that the work was done improperly and possibly maliciously. The price to bring in an expert would exceed the repair cost and not recoverable.


  28. #28
    James Skinner's Avatar
    James Skinner Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Definitely, get estimates to rework this roof, keep in mind replacement shingles will more than likely be of a different lot than original ones and there may be a difference in color. These guys really botched this one, to make it right those siliconed shingles have got to go. That means a much larger patched area, hopefully this area is in an remote roof location not readily seen.
    I'm surprised no one recommended tar and feathering this installer. I'm glad he and his kind are around. Job security.


  29. #29
    James Skinner's Avatar
    James Skinner Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    In this case, I hope you got alittle more than the standard tail light warranty.


  30. #30

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    In NY if you don't give the original contractor a chance at correcting the problem you stand a slim chance at collecting in small claims and you would definitely need to bring in an "Expert" to testify that the work was done improperly and possibly maliciously. The price to bring in an expert would exceed the repair cost and not recoverable.
    How many chances do you have to give them. The caulk was their repair on the second time around. What next?


  31. #31
    Phil Brody's Avatar
    Phil Brody Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    one chance to fix, the idea is it's not a perfect world and people make mistakes,2nd attempt establishes incompetency.


  32. #32
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Skinner View Post
    Definitely, get estimates to rework this roof, keep in mind replacement shingles will more than likely be of a different lot than original ones and there may be a difference in color. These guys really botched this one, to make it right those siliconed shingles have got to go.
    If I was doing that fix, I think I'd try loosening the silicone first with sponges and good ole' gasoline, or Coleman fuel, even better. Get it loose, peel it off.


  33. #33
    James Skinner's Avatar
    James Skinner Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Gasoline will also dissolve the asphalt on the shingle and cause more problems. Have you ever tried to get mud off shingles, what a pain, its like trying to clean sandpaper. Since the shingles have to come up to install the metal underneath then why fiddle with trying to clean silicone off asphalt. Replace them and move on.


  34. #34
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Looks like my sisters husband did the repairs.
    It looks to me like the silicone on the flue could also cause a fire hazard.


  35. #35
    James Skinner's Avatar
    James Skinner Guest

    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    Speaking of "roofing" jobs, this one showed up recently on one of the DYI boards:

    Need opinion on this roof - DIY Chatroom - DIY Home Improvement Forum

    and was brought to my attention by a local roofer because an "inspector" had supposedly blessed it...
    Tab exposure seems too wide and the fastners backing out can only result in either leaks or possible loss of shingles. The only blessing this situation deserves is last rites, even though it could be repaired. The inspector must have looked at it from the ground and ok'd it.


  36. #36
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Absolutely unbelievably the worst installation in the United States.


  37. #37
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    Absolutely unbelievably the worst installation in the United States.
    Wayne,

    You must live a very sheltered life.

    Okay, that is BAD ... but I have seen WORSE.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  38. #38
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    Default Re: ugly water leak repair, is this standard?

    Okay, let me rephrase.........

    Ummmmm never mind....I just figured out..I do lead a sheltered life!


  39. #39
    Miki Ochi's Avatar
    Miki Ochi Guest

    Default Update

    Hi guys!

    Thank you very much for your replies. I was out of town for the weekend.

    Here is what we did so far.

    *had the home inspector take a look and asked his opinion
    He said it's unacceptable, so he will talk to them and follow up.

    *had the other stove company take a look and asked his opinion
    They also said it's unacceptable. they told me to call the roofer, too.

    *had the city inspector who inspected the stove take a look at it again.
    This time he came with his supervisor. They said that's not safe at all,
    so they will contact the stove installer, and go through the process again so that inspector would have better undersanding, then try have them correct it.

    So every information I have gathered says what they did was so wrong, and it's confirmed by the professionals. City inspector apologized, and said it's very unusual, and looked like crap.

    Anyway, I hope the original one will fix it correctly. I will have the city inspector and home inspector both inspect their work. Until then, I won't even touch the stove.

    Thank you very much for your advice. They were very very helpful!


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