Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    164

    Default Eco Smart Fireplaces

    Member Benefits1

  2. #2
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Eco Smart Fireplaces

    CF: Another fad that burns up not just the air in the house, but the money in your wallet as well.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    1,628

    Default Re: Eco Smart Fireplaces

    "In a house of typical construction, that is, one that is not of unusually tight construction due to heavy insulation and tight seals against air infiltration, an adequate supply of air for combustion and ventilation is provided through infiltration. However, if the heater is used in a small room where less than 5.7m3 [201.3ft3] of air space is provided for each 1000 BTU per hour of heater rating (considering the maximum burner adjustment), the door(s) to adjacent room(s) should be kept open or a window to the outside should be opened at least 25.4mm [1in] to guard against potential build up of indoor air pollution. Do not install or operate in a bathroom or any other small room."

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
    Minnesota Home Inspectors LLC
    ASHI #242887 mnradontesting.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: Eco Smart Fireplaces

    Its a glorified candle, but more dangerous and destructive to property.

    Same as any other alcohol burner, be it portable furniture "fire place" or sterno can under a catering tray or fondue pot.

    Their claims that purchase would be a legitimate application for an energy tax credit are false (sure you can claim it but don't get caught having done so in an audit - furniture mounted or not is not eligible - and this is not listed as a heating device for the home it is listed as a glorified candle). It is not listed for unattended use or heating equipment/appliance If you tried to use this continuously for heating you'd soon be overcome (CO) and the unit would overheat, rust, warp from many hours of continuous use. The gel cans have warnings on them including how long one can burn continuously and attentive monitoring.

    Ventless gas fireplace not legal in Chicago or most of Illinois - and for good reason (CO) but they haven't outlawed candles.

    Destruction of property issues (besides the obvious fire hazard) include black soot buildup on the ceiling, walls and furniture, etc. from excessive burning of the alcohol gel fuel. It builds up faster than even cheap candles.

    Nothing to stop something from floating in and being caught up in the flame - and nothing to stop little suzie or ronnie (or felix or fido) from getting burned or tipping unit over and getting gel on them, ignited and going up in flames.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 11-21-2009 at 06:39 PM.

  5. #5
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Eco Smart Fireplaces

    Zeta Portable Ventless Fireplace - Freestanding Fireplace Designs - EcoSmart Fire is my personal favorite. Check out the materials of which it is constructed.

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    1,628

    Default Re: Eco Smart Fireplaces

    Suggested Accessories



    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
    Minnesota Home Inspectors LLC
    ASHI #242887 mnradontesting.com

  7. #7
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Eco Smart Fireplaces

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    Suggested Accessories
    RW:


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    164

    Default Re: Eco Smart Fireplaces

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Its a glorified candle, but more dangerous and destructive to property.

    Same as any other alcohol burner, be it portable furniture "fire place" or sterno can under a catering tray or fondue pot.

    Their claims that purchase would be a legitimate application for an energy tax credit are false (sure you can claim it but don't get caught having done so in an audit - furniture mounted or not is not eligible - and this is not listed as a heating device for the home it is listed as a glorified candle). It is not listed for unattended use or heating equipment/appliance If you tried to use this continuously for heating you'd soon be overcome (CO) and the unit would overheat, rust, warp from many hours of continuous use. The gel cans have warnings on them including how long one can burn continuously and attentive monitoring.

    Ventless gas fireplace not legal in Chicago or most of Illinois - and for good reason (CO) but they haven't outlawed candles.

    Destruction of property issues (besides the obvious fire hazard) include black soot buildup on the ceiling, walls and furniture, etc. from excessive burning of the alcohol gel fuel. It builds up faster than even cheap candles.

    Nothing to stop something from floating in and being caught up in the flame - and nothing to stop little suzie or ronnie (or felix or fido) from getting burned or tipping unit over and getting gel on them, ignited and going up in flames.

    Hello All,

    Thanks for your responses.

    H.G. You indicated that this is not listed for home heating.
    Are you refering to tax credit stuff or a UL listing?

    You indicated it is not listed for unattened use.
    Direction where you found that would be helpful.

    Do you have a reference that this cannot be used in Chicago or Ilinois. That would be extremely helpful.


    Thanks,

    Corey


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: Eco Smart Fireplaces

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey Friedman View Post
    H.G. You indicated that this is not listed for home heating.
    Are you refering to tax credit stuff or a UL listing? (*1)

    You indicated it is not listed for unattened use.
    Direction where you found that would be helpful. (*2)
    (1) Both. The UL Listing, Product Category, and the tax credit stuff (IRS).

    (2) The UL Listing and category and the listed instructions for the FEW models which do bear a UL Listing of sorts (as a decorative alcohol burner assessory and completely factory assembled with fixed guard and reduced fuel capacity - the larger capacity and the portable ones are not listed). Only those which are afixed can be listed - and the ventless afixed combustion appliances are not permitted in Chi. You can also check the Scope for the "Subject" regarding a general introduction for the requirements, there isn't a "Standard" for the Listing category requirements. Note, to find the limited listings you have to search by the LLP name, an Austrailian company.

    Here are quotations and direct links for the "scoop" at UL:

    The Fire Company Pty Limited
    Category Name:
    Unvented Alcohol-fuel-burning Decorative Appliances
    LRBA.MH46715
    Unvented Alcohol-fuel-burning Decorative Appliances Certified for Canada:
    LRBA7.MH46715

    from (clickable link to database @ UL):
    LRBA.MH46715 - Unvented Alcohol-fuel-burning Decorative Appliances

    See this link for the GuideInfo for the category code "LRBA" (clickable link to database @ UL):

    LRBA.GuideInfo - Unvented Alcohol-fuel-burning Decorative Appliances

    From LRBA.GuideInfo (bold and underlining mine item in red is my insertion):

    This category covers unvented, self-contained alcohol-fuel-burning appliances . These appliances are intended for decorative purposes, though there may be limited radiant and convection-air comfort heating. They are not provided with means for duct connection nor is there electrical/mechanical assist of heated air movement, such as a fan-blower assembly.

    Denatured alcohol is formulated for the application. The appliances are investigated for use only with the specific fuel marked on the appliance nameplate. Use of fuels other than those specified for the appliance may result in risk of asphyxiation and fire hazard. Refueling is intended to be accomplished in accordance with markings on the appliance and only from containers indicated as suitable for the purpose.

    Installation is intended to be in accordance with local codes, the manufacturer's installation instructions and any markings on the appliance. These appliances may be floor mounted or wall mounted. They may be installed in a solid-fuel-burning fireplace adapted for the purpose and, when so marked, in a factory-built solid-fuel-burning fireplace in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions. They are not intended for use in bathrooms or bedrooms nor for institutional use.

    Unvented alcohol-fuel-burning appliances require fresh air infiltration into the room in which the appliances are installed. Refer to markings on the appliance and the manufacturer's instructions for information on ventilation.

    The Requirements used to investigate products in this category are contained in UL Subject 1370 (not a Standard), "Unvented Alcohol Fuel Burning Decorative Appliances.

    See Scope of Subject 1370 here (clickable link to database @ UL):
    out-1370.5

    When you review it you will find that even the requirements outlined in the Scope itself for Subject 1370 eliminate significantly more than half of the products offered on your web link only a few products, and then only certain models qualify and are listed (fewer still offered in the same form as listed). You will further read additional restrictions on installation and use in the scope itself. Further restrictions exist with the listed instructions which include language that is very strong regarding the listing.

    From the Mfg/Importer website:

    The EcoSmart™ Fire is the first product of its kind to have its collection so comprehensively C-UL US Listed. Specific requirements for models sold with the C-UL US Listed symbol include:
    C-UL US Listed models include Burner TwoUL. This is the same as Burner Two (our two litre burner) but has the C-UL US marking on it.

    This C-UL US marked burner will only be sold with completed models as the burner itself is not approved as an independent item - this means it can not be sold as a Burner Kit.

    C-UL US Listed models must have the Wind Screen Static fitted at all times.

    C-UL US Listed models must be installed into a fixed secure position using the instructions and fixing supplied with each model.

    The Grates can only be installed into an existing masonry fireplace setting.

    For the most up to date list of C-UL US Listed models and compliance requirements please contact your local distributor.

    You can download or acquire the specification requirements from the Mfg. or local distributor, check with your building department and fire authority for further details regarding the INSTALLATION of UNVENTED COMBUSTION APPLIANCES. Your tax advisor can more fully apprise you of the language of the credit and the requirement for it to be other than a Decoration. The limited heating capacity at maximum allowed for the UL listing, for the miminum required area for the device at rating and limited allowable fuel etc. as well as the listed use and designation make it ineligible for the credit authorized by law.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 11-30-2009 at 08:28 PM. Reason: formatting for clickable links to work properly

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    164

    Default Re: Eco Smart Fireplaces

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    (1) Both. The UL Listing, Product Category, and the tax credit stuff (IRS).

    (2) The UL Listing and category and the listed instructions for the FEW models which do bear a UL Listing of sorts (as a decorative alcohol burner assessory and completely factory assembled with fixed guard and reduced fuel capacity - the larger capacity and the portable ones are not listed). Only those which are afixed can be listed - and the ventless afixed combustion appliances are not permitted in Chi. You can also check the Scope for the "Subject" regarding a general introduction for the requirements, there isn't a "Standard" for the Listing category requirements. Note, to find the limited listings you have to search by the LLP name, an Austrailian company.

    Here are quotations and direct links for the "scoop" at UL:

    The Fire Company Pty Limited
    Category Name:
    Unvented Alcohol-fuel-burning Decorative Appliances
    LRBA.MH46715
    Unvented Alcohol-fuel-burning Decorative Appliances Certified for Canada:
    LRBA7.MH46715

    from (clickable link to database @ UL):
    LRBA.MH46715 - Unvented Alcohol-fuel-burning Decorative Appliances

    See this link for the GuideInfo for the category code "LRBA" (clickable link to database @ UL):

    LRBA.GuideInfo - Unvented Alcohol-fuel-burning Decorative Appliances

    From LRBA.GuideInfo (bold and underlining mine item in red is my insertion):

    This category covers unvented, self-contained alcohol-fuel-burning appliances . These appliances are intended for decorative purposes, though there may be limited radiant and convection-air comfort heating. They are not provided with means for duct connection nor is there electrical/mechanical assist of heated air movement, such as a fan-blower assembly.

    Denatured alcohol is formulated for the application. The appliances are investigated for use only with the specific fuel marked on the appliance nameplate. Use of fuels other than those specified for the appliance may result in risk of asphyxiation and fire hazard. Refueling is intended to be accomplished in accordance with markings on the appliance and only from containers indicated as suitable for the purpose.

    Installation is intended to be in accordance with local codes, the manufacturer's installation instructions and any markings on the appliance. These appliances may be floor mounted or wall mounted. They may be installed in a solid-fuel-burning fireplace adapted for the purpose and, when so marked, in a factory-built solid-fuel-burning fireplace in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions. They are not intended for use in bathrooms or bedrooms nor for institutional use.

    Unvented alcohol-fuel-burning appliances require fresh air infiltration into the room in which the appliances are installed. Refer to markings on the appliance and the manufacturer's instructions for information on ventilation.

    The Requirements used to investigate products in this category are contained in UL Subject 1370 (not a Standard), "Unvented Alcohol Fuel Burning Decorative Appliances.

    See Scope of Subject 1370 here (clickable link to database @ UL):
    out-1370.5

    When you review it you will find that even the requirements outlined in the Scope itself for Subject 1370 eliminate significantly more than half of the products offered on your web link only a few products, and then only certain models qualify and are listed (fewer still offered in the same form as listed). You will further read additional restrictions on installation and use in the scope itself. Further restrictions exist with the listed instructions which include language that is very strong regarding the listing.

    From the Mfg/Importer website:

    The EcoSmart™ Fire is the first product of its kind to have its collection so comprehensively C-UL US Listed. Specific requirements for models sold with the C-UL US Listed symbol include:
    C-UL US Listed models include Burner TwoUL. This is the same as Burner Two (our two litre burner) but has the C-UL US marking on it.

    This C-UL US marked burner will only be sold with completed models as the burner itself is not approved as an independent item - this means it can not be sold as a Burner Kit.

    C-UL US Listed models must have the Wind Screen Static fitted at all times.

    C-UL US Listed models must be installed into a fixed secure position using the instructions and fixing supplied with each model.

    The Grates can only be installed into an existing masonry fireplace setting.

    For the most up to date list of C-UL US Listed models and compliance requirements please contact your local distributor.

    You can download or acquire the specification requirements from the Mfg. or local distributor, check with your building department and fire authority for further details regarding the INSTALLATION of UNVENTED COMBUSTION APPLIANCES. Your tax advisor can more fully apprise you of the language of the credit and the requirement for it to be other than a Decoration. The limited heating capacity at maximum allowed for the UL listing, for the miminum required area for the device at rating and limited allowable fuel etc. as well as the listed use and designation make it ineligible for the credit authorized by law.

    Hello H.G.,

    Just looking for some clarification.

    In your original post you indicated:
    "this is not listed as a heating device for the home it is listed as a glorified candle). It is not listed for unattended use or heating equipment/appliance "

    I agree it is not listed as a heating device but they make no claim that this is a heating device /heating equipment or heating appliance.

    It is not listed as a "glorified candle" but they do have UL listed products as a decorative appliances.

    Although I won't attempt to play accountant, the laymans read of their own PDF attachment does indicate that these are not eligble for the tax credit, not beacuse it is not UL listed for that purpose, but because 25C(d)(3)(E) says "to heat a dwelling unit" and these decorative appliances clearly are not for that purpose.

    I still could not find where it says they are not listed for "unattended use".

    In your original post you indicated:
    "Ventless gas fireplace not legal in Chicago or most of Illinois".

    I think we are in agreement that this is not a fireplace but is a decorative appliance. Regardless, the Chicago Building Code 18-28-903.1.5 and 18-28-903.3.1 allows both, ventless fireplaces and decorative appliance installations. What Chicago code are you referring to?

    Additionally, what Illinois code prohibits ventless fireplaces or decorative appliances?

    Sincerely,

    Corey


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: Eco Smart Fireplaces

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey Friedman View Post
    Hello H.G.,

    Just looking for some clarification.

    In your original post you indicated:
    "this is not listed as a heating device for the home it is listed as a glorified candle). It is not listed for unattended use or heating equipment/appliance "

    I agree it is not listed as a heating device but they make no claim that this is a heating device /heating equipment or heating appliance. It has to be for the tax credit.

    It is not listed as a "glorified candle" but they do have UL listed products as a decorative appliances. Sigh...It is (the few that are - with their very limited listing) listed as a decorative appliance using an open flame of a Class I Flamable liquid. I'm calling that a "glorified candle" not UL for clarification as to what this product IS and IS NOT - i.e. your prior questions - whether or not a portable "candle holder" (i.e. flame and liquid fuel) or a fixed "candle holder". This "decorative appliance" is Decorative visually - heat is an incidential affect - The "visual" affect is ILLUMINATION i.e. Class I Flamable Liquid (alcohol) fueled ILLUMINATION (FLAME). This reference was to get you to where the City is, I.E. prohibited under 15-24-080 , glorified candle -- GET IT NOW?

    Although I won't attempt to play accountant, the laymans read of their own PDF attachment does indicate that these are not eligble for the tax credit, not beacuse it is not UL listed for that purpose, but because 25C(d)(3)(E) says "to heat a dwelling unit" and these decorative appliances clearly are not for that purpose. Sigh, I said that already - twice, but you disputed, this is not a listed heating appliance and those that are listed do not meet the qualifcations of a continuous use heating appliance.

    I still could not find where it says they are not listed for "unattended use". Guess you cannot read the manufacturer's listed use and instructions. Strange from someone promoting the use of same. Then purchase the UL subject and read it entirely. Also the listed Use and Instructions. Just as some of the outrageous claims about the product, claims about listing status, etc. The site removed the PDF documents from the site within 36 hours after I first directed you review them. Suggest you read the installation, use, etc. instructions for one of the "listed" models.

    In your original post you indicated:
    "Ventless gas fireplace not legal in Chicago or most of Illinois".

    I think we are in agreement that this is not a fireplace but is a decorative appliance. Regardless, the Chicago Building Code 18-28-903.1.5 and 18-28-903.3.1 allows both, ventless fireplaces and decorative appliance installations. No. What Chicago code are you referring to? Neither citation is applicable to your argument regarding Class I Flammable Liquid Fuel burning anything. No one subsection or part stands alone.

    Additionally, what Illinois code prohibits ventless fireplaces or decorative appliances?

    Sincerely,

    Corey
    Corey,

    I'm assuming your with the group who's already been told no repeatedly by the city NO - on whatever condo or apt project. Who do you think R. Bernacki and others talk to? I noted INSERTED COMMENTS IN RED in above quoted post from you. Perhaps now you'll 'get it' regarding MY "glorified candle" description earlier - it was to get you to understand the answers to your original questions, and why it would not be allowed in the jurisdiction you inquired about - and what this item IS and IS NOT code-wise and tax code wise. You seem to have difficulty understanding what this decorative item is and is not. You also seem to confuse solid fuel, gas fired, and liquid fuel - they are NOT interchangable.

    It is expressly prohibited as it falls under 15-24-080. The Decorative appliance is a fuel burning appliance (open combustion), not providing heat other than ancillary effect, the fuel is LIQUID, not solid fuel not gas fuel, the action is an open flame fuel class I flamable liquid; The decoration effect is a VISUAL one - i.e. the ILLUMINATION - OPEN FLAME as stated and listed to provide DECORATION not HEAT. When not Flaming (storage) - and even while flaming (use) there are the nasty cavaets regarding ANY quantity of a class I flamable liquid in the occupied space, precautions required, and those precautions rendering the space no longer habital.

    Next your citations don't apply. You apparently missed the word VENTED from 18-28-803.3.1 "Decorative appliances for installation in VENTED fireplaces. This decorative appliance is a combustion appliance and is neither gas fuel nor solid fuel. This decorative combustion appliance is not a vented appliance. It is not permitted as listed under either citation.

    Standards & Listings has not approved any product such as the ones you are so desperately trying to promote. And for good reason, and they would NEVER be approved. They are violative of a number of sections and titles of the Chicago Building Code and Chicago Fire Code.

    You fail to realize that the fuel is a Class I Flammable Liquid - therefore will NOT be approved;

    Conflict between requirements for Combustion and Dillution Air and ventilation precautions for the storage of the Flamable Liquid (Class I) of ANY quantity. 18-28-703,2 & 3 The need for an oxygen depletion safety shut-off system for the appliance (which would work - wouldn't would soot up immediately and shut down), a required hard wired Carbon Monoxide detector on the same circuit as the room being served, a provision change i.e. 18-28-903.1.1 equivalent (none exists no standard to list to), 18-28-502.8.5 (ANY QUANTITY of) Flammable and combustible liquids.

    You fail to realize that the storage, use, and especially an open flame use of a Class I Flamable Liquid in any residential occupancy would negate the C of O and cause the property to be declared a hazardous nusiance and be completely and entirely illegal. 15-4-080.

    See 15-24. Position statements exist for a long time regarding the inclusion of prohibition of ALL Class I Flamable Liquids, not just those specifically identified in for example 15-24-090, as the intent was clear 15-24-080, etc.

    Adequate ventillation not just combustion air but refreshing air cannot be met. Storage and use of ANY quantity of flammable and combustible liquids 18-28-502.8.5
    Flammable and combustible liquids.
    Exhaust ventilation systems shall be provided as required by Sections 18-28-502.8.5.1 through 18-28-502.8.5.5 for the storage, use, dispensing, mixing and handling of flammable and combustible liquids. Unless otherwise specified, this section shall apply to ANY QUANTITY of flammable and combustible liquids.
    Exception: This section shall not apply to flammable and combustible liquids that are exempt from the Chicago Fire Code. Ethyl alcohol, Class I Flammable Liquid is not exempt from the Chicago Fire Code. 15-24-020 (d).

    18-28-502.8.5 would require 15-24-060.
    15-24-060 Heating in rooms and buildings used for the storage and handling of Clas I flammable liquids shall be by steam, hot water or approved electrical heaters installed in accordance with Title 14 of this Code. Fire walls shall surround all boilerrooms, furance rooms, and other rooms containing exposed fire, electric dynamos, motors, switches or other spark-producing devices.

    And around and around we could go, and I've repeated myself too often. Bottom line, it is not allowed. Forget about your ideas regarding installing them in that condo or apartment project it further won't fly in that occupancy for many more reasons in addition to the few I've already pointed out to you. You strike me as one who would need it explained why one should not use the barbeque in the house or garage either.


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    164

    Default Re: Eco Smart Fireplaces

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Corey,

    I'm assuming your with the group who's already been told no repeatedly by the city NO - on whatever condo or apt project. Who do you think R. Bernacki and others talk to? I noted INSERTED COMMENTS IN RED in above quoted post from you. Perhaps now you'll 'get it' regarding MY "glorified candle" description earlier - it was to get you to understand the answers to your original questions, and why it would not be allowed in the jurisdiction you inquired about - and what this item IS and IS NOT code-wise and tax code wise. You seem to have difficulty understanding what this decorative item is and is not. You also seem to confuse solid fuel, gas fired, and liquid fuel - they are NOT interchangable.

    It is expressly prohibited as it falls under 15-24-080. The Decorative appliance is a fuel burning appliance (open combustion), not providing heat other than ancillary effect, the fuel is LIQUID, not solid fuel not gas fuel, the action is an open flame fuel class I flamable liquid; The decoration effect is a VISUAL one - i.e. the ILLUMINATION - OPEN FLAME as stated and listed to provide DECORATION not HEAT. When not Flaming (storage) - and even while flaming (use) there are the nasty cavaets regarding ANY quantity of a class I flamable liquid in the occupied space, precautions required, and those precautions rendering the space no longer habital.

    Next your citations don't apply. You apparently missed the word VENTED from 18-28-803.3.1 "Decorative appliances for installation in VENTED fireplaces. This decorative appliance is a combustion appliance and is neither gas fuel nor solid fuel. This decorative combustion appliance is not a vented appliance. It is not permitted as listed under either citation.

    Standards & Listings has not approved any product such as the ones you are so desperately trying to promote. And for good reason, and they would NEVER be approved. They are violative of a number of sections and titles of the Chicago Building Code and Chicago Fire Code.

    You fail to realize that the fuel is a Class I Flammable Liquid - therefore will NOT be approved;

    Conflict between requirements for Combustion and Dillution Air and ventilation precautions for the storage of the Flamable Liquid (Class I) of ANY quantity. 18-28-703,2 & 3 The need for an oxygen depletion safety shut-off system for the appliance (which would work - wouldn't would soot up immediately and shut down), a required hard wired Carbon Monoxide detector on the same circuit as the room being served, a provision change i.e. 18-28-903.1.1 equivalent (none exists no standard to list to), 18-28-502.8.5 (ANY QUANTITY of) Flammable and combustible liquids.

    You fail to realize that the storage, use, and especially an open flame use of a Class I Flamable Liquid in any residential occupancy would negate the C of O and cause the property to be declared a hazardous nusiance and be completely and entirely illegal. 15-4-080.

    See 15-24. Position statements exist for a long time regarding the inclusion of prohibition of ALL Class I Flamable Liquids, not just those specifically identified in for example 15-24-090, as the intent was clear 15-24-080, etc.

    Adequate ventillation not just combustion air but refreshing air cannot be met. Storage and use of ANY quantity of flammable and combustible liquids 18-28-502.8.5
    Flammable and combustible liquids.
    Exhaust ventilation systems shall be provided as required by Sections 18-28-502.8.5.1 through 18-28-502.8.5.5 for the storage, use, dispensing, mixing and handling of flammable and combustible liquids. Unless otherwise specified, this section shall apply to ANY QUANTITY of flammable and combustible liquids.
    Exception: This section shall not apply to flammable and combustible liquids that are exempt from the Chicago Fire Code. Ethyl alcohol, Class I Flammable Liquid is not exempt from the Chicago Fire Code. 15-24-020 (d).

    18-28-502.8.5 would require 15-24-060.
    15-24-060 Heating in rooms and buildings used for the storage and handling of Clas I flammable liquids shall be by steam, hot water or approved electrical heaters installed in accordance with Title 14 of this Code. Fire walls shall surround all boilerrooms, furance rooms, and other rooms containing exposed fire, electric dynamos, motors, switches or other spark-producing devices.

    And around and around we could go, and I've repeated myself too often. Bottom line, it is not allowed. Forget about your ideas regarding installing them in that condo or apartment project it further won't fly in that occupancy for many more reasons in addition to the few I've already pointed out to you. You strike me as one who would need it explained why one should not use the barbeque in the house or garage either.
    Hello H.G.,

    It appears that we are engaged in two different conversations. I understand fully what you are attempting to say but you are getting what I am saying. Before I sign off from this thread as it has become useless, I will point out a few things.

    1. I never said this was going to be installed in a condo, apartment or other residential setting. Perhaps you “assumed” this, too.

    2. My comment about the “candle” was tongue and cheek. Sorry you missed that. I knew exactly what you were saying.

    3. We are in agreement about the tax credit thing. I did originally miss the decorative appliance vs. heating appliance and asked a simple question in my second post. I simply asked “H.G. You indicated that this is not listed for home heating. Are you referring to tax credit stuff or a UL listing?”

    I thought this was a polite question looking for direction. I offer an apology for my “fast read” and missing it the first time round. Had I noticed it, I wouldn’t have asked the question. It was a sincere question. How silly of me to post a question on a forum designed to ask questions. Sorry to offend you, “sigh”. If you find answering questions or participating on a forum a burden, may I suggest to you not to participate.

    I never disputed what you said as you claim. In fact, I was actually looking for direction as to what I was overlooking. I’m curious why you feel the need for attitude.

    4. You said “Ventless gas fireplace not legal in Chicago or most of Illinois” This is simply not true and the code sections from Chicago I cited reflect the fact the you can install ventless gas fireplaces in Chicago.

    5. Your comment: “You strike me as one who would need it explained why one should not use the barbeque in the house or garage either.”

    What would prompt a professional having a forum conversation to make such a comment? I assure you I have a great response but I consider myself a gentleman and civil decorum on an on-line forum prevents me from posting it.

    I thought the point of this forum is for professionals to exchange thoughts, information and ideas in a professional manner. It appears that you don’t subscribe to that philosophy and therefore there is no point in continuing this conversation.

    You can respond or not, it doesn’t matter to me but I’m done with this thread and will not be responding to any additional posts.

    I wish you and your family health and happiness this holiday season.

    Sincerely,

    Corey


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •