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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Mesa AZ
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    Default This doesn't seem right

    The gas logs on a new gas log installation did not have a pilot, the only way to turn it on was by a key that fed the gas to the gas tubes, then lite it with a match.
    Is installation this OK? If it's OK, What's to stop someone from turning the gas on and getting side tracked , or kids messing around with the key, and filling the home up with gas?

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Spring City/Surrounding Philadelphia area
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    Default Re: This doesn't seem right

    Light it with a match? I thought that went out in the 50s.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Oregon
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    2,365

    Default Re: This doesn't seem right

    Very common installation around here... I'm not sure about current code and if it's allowed but I see a lot of existing installs like this. As for if someone could turn it one and walk away? Yep, they could... Kids turning it on? Again, yes. Someone could also get in a car and start driving down the road and crawl in the backseat to clean the rear window or take a nap

    Check to make sure there's a clip on the damper to keep it from closing completely so fumes always have a way to escape.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA
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    2,481

    Default Re: This doesn't seem right

    The whole point of the removable key is so that it can be removed when not in use.

    However, do some searching through this forum. Bob Harper does not like those keyed valves because they tend to leak.

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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Mesa AZ
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    Default Re: This doesn't seem right

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Fellman View Post
    Very common installation around here... I'm not sure about current code and if it's allowed but I see a lot of existing installs like this. As for if someone could turn it one and walk away? Yep, they could... Kids turning it on? Again, yes. Someone could also get in a car and start driving down the road and crawl in the backseat to clean the rear window or take a nap

    Check to make sure there's a clip on the damper to keep it from closing completely so fumes always have a way to escape.
    It did not have a clamp. I caught that, if I recall that was something I was reminded of by a post on this site.
    One of the bennies of being part of the IN crowd

    The current owners stated they had it installed on the major remodel, and never used it.
    The gas directly on caught me off guard, I turned the gas on then looked for a pilot, while looking I smelled the gas.

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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Near Philly, Pa.
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    1,643

    Cool Re: This doesn't seem right

    Unfortunately, the IRC still allows vented log sets listed to ANSI Z21.84, which is a match lit manual control valve appliance. There is no safety pilot. These are very popular west of the Miss but generally not allowed in the East. The old AGA std. required a standing pilot preassembled with the burner and valve and some means of maintaining the logs in a fixed position. ANSI Z21.60, which is the std. for your common vented set does not require fixing the log position. The air shutter is supposedly tested for flashback at low manifold pressure at high primary aeration (open).

    If yours is just the burner with no control valve inside the firebox, that is an unlisted appliance and should be removed.

    Anytime you have a key valve in the floor or wall, you have to be concerned with gas leaks. The newer ones listed to ANSI Z21.15 are quarter turn ballvalves that generally do not leak like the older globe valves with the rising stem and 21 throws of the wrist. However, all "key'" valves are rated at either 3 or 5 psi. High pressure testing can blow the valve seat & packing, esp. on those older globe valves.

    Those pan burners should be set to the rear of the firebox and the damper removed or blocked wide open. This makes them energy hogs. This just might get them banned from the new IECC which is trying to require gasketed doors and tighter dampers on all fireplaces.

    Of course, when in doubt, refer to a hearth pro
    HTH,
    Bob

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    745

    Default Re: This doesn't seem right

    Another thing to look for is to check the gas log heater and verify it is manufactured to work with the fireplace it is installed in.

    R1004.4 Unvented gas log heaters.
    An unvented gas log
    heater shall not be installed in a factory-built fireplace unless
    the fireplace system has been specifically tested, listed and
    labeled for such use in accordance with UL 127.




  8. #8
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: This doesn't seem right

    Nothing wrong with a gas log match lit fireplace. If a leaks develops with any key turned device then get it fixed.

    I am not one for taking every possible scenario that might be unsafe out of a home.

    Put the key away. Teach the kids about safety Either that or just let the Gov make all the rules and control every aspect of ones life.

    This whole everyone has to be protected from everyone and everything without leaving anything to chance or make a choice about yourself has to stop somewhere.

    Get into a jumbo jet with multiple thousands of gallons of fuel that can drop out of the air at any moment for a plethora of reasons but one should not have a gas log in their home because something might go wrong. I guess we should take gas stoves out of homes where you can pull them out and cause possible damage to the flex line etc etc etc. Water heaters that the TPR valve goes bad and the unit does not shut off and it blows. I guess water heaters should be removed from homes.

    A tire could blow on your car at anytime for a number of reasons but you will load your kids in it and drive a thousands miles and pass by how many drunks and or drive on icy roads?

    Oh well. Enough of a rant for now.

    Gas log fireplaces....Love em. No fuss no muss. Enough heat, shut em off.

    Glass of wine, a wonderful lady, turn the fireplace on, sit back, great.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Georgetown, KY
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    537

    Default Re: This doesn't seem right

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harris View Post
    I turned the gas on then looked for a pilot, while looking I smelled the gas.

    Turn on the gas and THEN look for a pilot?

    I'd think you'd find the pilot first!


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  10. #10
    Dennis Krouse's Avatar
    Dennis Krouse Guest

    Default Re: This doesn't seem right

    Usually a key valve is associated with log lighters use in solid fuel fireplaces. Is this log lighters or a gas log appliance?


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mesa AZ
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    1,181

    Default Re: This doesn't seem right

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Krouse View Post
    Usually a key valve is associated with log lighters use in solid fuel fireplaces. Is this log lighters or a gas log appliance?
    I'm assuming it would be considered a gas log appliance. It was a fancy piece of metal with holes, connected to a gas line, and fake logs.

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  12. #12
    Dennis Krouse's Avatar
    Dennis Krouse Guest

    Default Re: This doesn't seem right

    No data plate on the logs? Wondering if its rated for indoor use.


  13. #13
    Chris Turner's Avatar
    Chris Turner Guest

    Default Re: This doesn't seem right

    Ted is right. When in doubt recommend a qualified person for futher review and repair as necessary.


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