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  1. #1
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    Default Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    I ran across this is a new construction today. It is a site built fireplace and one brick is not like the others nor is it mortared in place (however it was not loose). Any ideas? Thanks!

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  2. #2
    Mike of MHI's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Vent hole or air intake. The fire brick is just a different color, but if it isn't a vent or air intake it should be mortared in. More investigation needed. Write it up and have builder correct or finish.

    Last edited by Mike of MHI; 09-16-2011 at 09:28 AM. Reason: Missed wording in orginal post

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    That one brick would be the least of two questions/issues. The first one would be the reason there is so much efflorescence present.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Barker View Post
    .
    the least of two questions/issues.
    .
    The first one would be the reason there is so much efflorescence present.
    .
    I think The First would be What Is That Thing on the End of The Gas Pipe and How Quickly can it be Removed.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  5. #5
    David McGuire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Is it true efflorescence, or just refection caused by the flash?


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by David McGuire View Post
    Is it true efflorescence, or just refection caused by the flash?
    It was probably set with pre-mix mortar which is water soluble. The joints are thinner, mortar dries rather than cures, brick does not have to be wet so building is much quicker, and because it is water soluble it can be cleaned off. Don't know about the loose brick?

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    I think The First would be What Is That Thing on the End of The Gas Pipe and How Quickly can it be Removed.
    Gas starter pipe... 17" Pipe 90 Degree End With Natural Gas Mixing Chamber | WoodlandDirect.com: Fire Starters

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Brick missing appropriate mortar is a fire hazard. Fireplace should not be used until repaired.
    Such a simple-minded error in new construction makes me suspect the entire fireplace and chimney, I would recommend a level 2 inspection by an expert.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary DeWitt View Post
    Brick missing appropriate mortar is a fire hazard. Fireplace should not be used until repaired.
    Such a simple-minded error in new construction makes me suspect the entire fireplace and chimney, I would recommend a level 2 inspection by an expert.
    The loose brick is where one would typically find an external air vent. The vent may not have been available during construction and is scheduled to be installed. I would query the builder before recommending a full inspection.

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    .
    Thanks Vern,
    But Where is The Rest of This Gas Fire Place ?

    It appears someone could misuse this Gas Fire Place Replacement part as a Fire Starter in a Solid Fuel Burning Fireplace.

    Quote=

    Don't despair if you have an elbow style starter pipe that has gone bad in your natural gas fireplace!

    The 17" Pipe with a 90 Degree Elbow and Natural Gas Mixing Chamber will solve your problem. This pipe and mixing chamber make is easy to start your natural gas fireplace but they do have a tendency to wear out over time. You can quickly and easily change the old burnt-out pipe with this 1/2" pipe thread replacement part.

    Order today and you will quickly be sitting beside your nice relaxing fireplace enjoying the calm and peace that comes from the glowing fire!

    Don't forget to order a spare one for the future.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    See NFPA 211. Negative slope at hearth opening questionable construction. Level III indicated (up a notch from Level II).


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    Thanks Vern,
    But Where is The Rest of This Gas Fire Place ?

    It appears someone could misuse this Gas Fire Place Replacement part as a Fire Starter in a Solid Fuel Burning Fireplace.

    Maybe I am missing something here but how would someone misuse this as fire starter for a solid fuel burning fireplace when it actually is a fire starter for a solid fuel burning fireplace?


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    It used to be a wood burning fire place,but was converted to a gas fired fireplace,very common,my guess it was never used as a wood burning unit,hence the effleresence?


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Stojanik View Post
    .
    Maybe I am missing something here but how would someone misuse this as fire starter for a solid fuel burning fireplace when it actually is a fire starter for a solid fuel burning fireplace?
    .
    Hi Phillip,

    There is such a thing as a gas fire starter for use in a Solid Fuel Burning Fireplace.

    It goes under a Grate and usually has a Keyed Valve to turn the gas on and off.

    All the components Have to Be Approved , Listed and Labeled for this Application.

    * Ya can't ( Not Allowed To ) Just get any Gas Appliance replacement Part to Fire it up.
    .

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    Hi Phillip,

    There is such a thing as a gas fire starter for use in a Solid Fuel Burning Fireplace.

    It goes under a Grate and usually has a Keyed Valve to turn the gas on and off.

    All the components Have to Be Approved , Listed and Labeled for this Application.

    * Ya can't ( Not Allowed To ) Just get any Gas Appliance replacement Part to Fire it up.
    .

    What I am seeing in the picture is indeed a gas fire starter for solid fuel that goes under the log grate and is designed specifically for that purpose (We typically call them "log lighters" here). A keyed valve and log grate are not pictured above but the log lighter device itself is approved for the specific purpose here in my part of the world.

    Not trying to be argumentative here, I am just trying to understand what you see in the photo that has you so excited. Do the local code authorities in you part of the world consider that log lighter rail to be a "gas appliance" by code definition?



  16. #16
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Stojanik View Post
    What I am seeing in the picture is indeed a gas fire starter for solid fuel that goes under the log grate and is designed specifically for that purpose (We typically call them "log lighters" here). A keyed valve and log grate are not pictured above but the log lighter device itself is approved for the specific purpose here in my part of the world.

    Not trying to be argumentative here, I am just trying to understand what you see in the photo that has you so excited. Do the local code authorities in you part of the world consider that log lighter rail to be a "gas appliance" by code definition?
    .

    Gas starter pipe... 17" Pipe 90 Degree End With Natural Gas Mixing Chamber | WoodlandDirect.com: Fire Starters

    This Link Say's it's for " Your Natural Gas Fireplace." not to Start Your Wood Logs.

    Even if it were Approved as a Log Lighter when used with a Grate and keyed Valve, Alone as Shown It's Just a Fire Hazard.

    Can't take one component of a System and use it as a stand alone part, then it becomes De listed for that application.
    .

    Last edited by Billy Stephens; 09-17-2011 at 07:59 PM.
    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    I think The First would be What Is That Thing on the End of The Gas Pipe and How Quickly can it be Removed.
    #1 You only ask, "What Is That Thing on the End of The Gas Pipe and How Quickly can it be Removed".

    #2 It is called a "Gas Starter Pipe" not a fire continuing pipe!

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post

    #1 You only ask, "What Is That Thing on the End of The Gas Pipe and How Quickly can it be Removed".

    #2 It is called a "Gas Starter Pipe" not a fire continuing pipe!
    .
    Thanks Again Vern,
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .

    This Link Say's it's for " Your Natural Gas Fireplace." not to Start Your Wood Logs.
    .
    I think I see what has happened here. Perhaps you have fixiated on some of the impercise marketing language found on the linked web site?

    Can't take one component of a System and use it as a stand alone part, then it becomes De listed for that application.
    .
    Here these are considered to be (and sold as) stand alone devices manufactured for a specific purpose and are used within approved vented fireboxes. We do not consider them to be inappropriately used when installed as intended within an otherwise approved firebox.

    Even if it were Approved as a Log Lighter when used with a Grate and keyed Valve, Alone as Shown It's Just a Fire Hazard.
    .
    Can you provide some support for that statement? How is the device inhereantly hazardous as installed? Its designed to start a fire in a firebox that is intened to house a fire. While many things can and do sometimes go wrong with fireplaces I just do not see any unusual hazard with this device when installed and used as intended.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Stojanik View Post
    I think I see what has happened here. Perhaps you have fixated on some of the imprecise marketing language found on the linked web site?
    .
    Perhaps Their Lawyers are Fixated on Not Calling this Product A Wood Fire Starter.

    Here these are considered to be (and sold as) stand alone devices manufactured for a specific purpose and are used within approved vented fireboxes. We do not consider them to be inappropriately used when installed as intended within an otherwise approved firebox.
    .
    Here Ceiling Fans are Sold as Stand Alone Devices.

    If You do not Attach them to The Ceiling with Sufficient Support , Wired Correctly

    but lay them on the floor cord wired are they still Approved as a Ceiling Fan?

    Can you provide some support for that statement? How is the device inhereantly hazardous as installed? Its designed to start a fire in a firebox that is intened to house a fire. While many things can and do sometimes go wrong with fireplaces I just do not see any unusual hazard with this device when installed and used as intended.
    .
    It's One Leg of a Chair ( would you tell someone they could sit in a one legged chair?)

    You can't Picture Mr New Home owner stacking firewood around this pipe and turning on the Valve? How do you reach in the fire and turn it off if needed?
    * your mileage may vary.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    It's One Leg of a Chair ( would you tell someone they could sit in a one legged chair?)

    You can't Picture Mr New Home owner stacking firewood around this pipe and turning on the Valve? How do you reach in the fire and turn it off if needed?
    * your mileage may vary.
    .
    I think we covered that the log rack was not shown in the photo or at least agree that it is missing. I think we would also agree that there should be a log rack in place for the installed log lighter to work as intended.

    I suppose the difference is that I would advise my client to get a log rack in place and you would advise them to remove the log lighter. Perhaps that is where our mileage varies?


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Stojanik View Post
    I think we covered that the log rack was not shown in the photo or at least agree that it is missing. I think we would also agree that there should be a log rack in place for the installed log lighter to work as intended.

    I suppose the difference is that I would advise my client to get a log rack in place and you would advise them to remove the log lighter. Perhaps that is where our mileage varies?
    .
    Philip,

    We are not that far apart. ( If The Fireplace can burn Solid Fuel.)

    Fireplace:

    Do Not Use Fireplace as is as it poses a Fire Hazard.
    Log Grate is Missing and must be in place before use.
    Confirm this setup is Approved to Start Solid Fuel Fires or Remove.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    .
    It's One Leg of a Chair ( would you tell someone they could sit in a one legged chair?
    Bill,

    Then you wouldn't recommend this chair?
    It's real and you can stand on it......

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  24. #24
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Goeken View Post
    Bill,

    Then you wouldn't recommend this chair?
    It's real and you can stand on it......
    .
    Well Ya Got Me There.
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    That brickwork, supply pipe, valve and starter pipe (manifold) does not appear to show any signs of use or discoloration from solid fuel. The starter pipe does have a slight discoloration perhaps from an initial test. I do not see any efflorescences on the brickwork from your photo but it appears the finished product was never cleaned properly. [(edit)You can still see numbers written on the brick face' and letters where the supply enters the chamber]. There is, however, what may appear to be ash debris at the base of the floor before the starter pipe. I agree with the comment that the loose brick is possibly a combustion air inlet. Documenting the need for additional verification is needed as well as noting the possibility that additional parts may be missing.

    Last edited by Franz Bailey; 09-20-2011 at 11:39 AM. Reason: added comment
    The full loathe honey, but to the hungry, even what is bitter tastes sweet.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    Thats where the husband stows his stash.

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  27. #27
    Rod Corwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Out of Place Fireplace Brick

    He stated this is new construction. So IMO the efflorescence is not efflorescence but rather residue not cleaned. Believe the loose brick to be left loose to put in vent to provide combustion air. Probably there temporarily to prevent a rodent from coming in. Gas pipe is not log starter but part of the gas fireplace. There probably will be a log rack (grate) with ceramic logs stacked on it to resemble real logs. Just my hypothesis.


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