Thread: Wood Stove Metalbestos goes through the bedroom

I inspected this today and have not seen this before. I can't find in the IRC if this can go through the 2nd floor bedroom. I know what common sense tells me but what do you think? The buyer wants to take it out and re-rout it outside and up through the overhang to get it out of the bedroom.

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If I didn't want it in the room, I would consider framing a chase around it. The floor space is already wasted and I would not have to consider the chilling effects of winter weather on the exposed outdoor chimney.

Thanks Darrel, This must not be an issue as no one else responded.

It's possible that an HT stainless steel Class A chimney which would be suitable for passing through floors. You should check clearance requirements for the materials used or refer to someone competent to inspect chimney systems.

Even if it were the right type of chimney, the penetrations at floor and ceiling are done incorrectly. Looks like site-made crap was used rather than listed components.

Originally Posted by Dan Hagman

I inspected this today and have not seen this before. I can't find in the IRC if this can go through the 2nd floor bedroom. I know what common sense tells me but what do you think? The buyer wants to take it out and re-rout it outside and up through the overhang to get it out of the bedroom.

Originally Posted by Dan Hagman

Thanks Darrel, This must not be an issue as no one else responded.

Bad ASS-U-mption that what you have photographed has "no issues". (And frankly rather illogical and impatient considering you posted Friday Night and concluded same late Saturday evening less than 24 hours. Some have other things to occupy their time on Friday evenings/nights and Saturdays, esp. Saturday Evenings!)

THIS is totally WRONG!!:








"interconnections between concealed vertical and horizontal spaces...." for one, but you'll find language in the IRC borrowed directly from NFPA 211 which leads you to ANSI/UL standard numbers which also further direct you to NFPA 211 (and/or NFPA 54 as the case may be). See NFPA 211, 6.1.3 for requirements for factory-built chimneys used with wood-burning appliances in one- and two-family dwellings and compare to R1005.

Manufactured chimneys (and vents) passing through an occupied 2nd (or higher) floor must be enclosed/separated! Must be enclosed and separated from the occupied space on that "second" or "half" story floor, which is other than that having the orignation of the chimney or connector from the first floor floor/ceiling assembly to and through that second story (perhaps rather, the half-story) ceiling introduction to the roof/ceiling insulated assembly.

Not only separated from the combustible structure, floor finish, etc. but separated from the occupied space, and further blocked and stopped, but protected from damage.

Its covered in the IRC as well as references to the manufactured chimney, solid fuel appliances, and references to the ANSI/UL standards for same, which incorporate NFPA 211. Further covered by the manufacturer's instructions for manufactured chimney system (system being key) which includes supports, sheilds, etc.

It may NOT pass through the floor/ceiling assembly immediately above the appliance through occupied floor without being enclosed/separated, properly supported, fire blocked and stopped - for entirety of the vertical passage through occupied floors or spaces.

Other "issues" and/or concerns regarding what is pictured at appliance/solid fuel burning location, and in the "passing through" bedroom shots, but outside of what appears to be the topic/scope of your OP.

Thats a roof support passed up through the floor.

DuraVent : Old Browser Notification
http://www.duravent.com/docs/product...atalog_web.pdf

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Thats a roof support passed up through the floor.
http://www.duravent.com/docs/product...atalog_web.pdf

Not sure which product you're seeing there, but it doesn't look like the DuraVent roof supports I've used (although on closer look it does look like the trim collars I've used). All the same, if it is DuraVent they're quite clear on how to install in a multi-story application (see pg. 64) and quite clearly show the required chase.

Page 31 Roof support

Thanks for all your responses. I did not overreact as I knew exactly what I was doing in asking the question and making the statement of assumption. I needed a quick answer for help and you guys responded to me. Although I do feel attack but that's OK. I agree HG, this is totally wrong but I couldn't find it so I asked for help. I wrote this up as a wrong and unsafe installation and won't explain all the words included. I was looking for validation from you guys and you gave me critisizm,I was looking for code violations in the IRC and you gave me incompetent personal findings. I was looking for help, just help. Is this site only for the most experience or can anyone ask for help.I do appreciate your answers because they all helped me learn some more about this. So Thanks!

Raymond, thanks for the catalog, I saved it for future use.

Dan, I'm sorry you took my response as a personal attack. "Competent" has a very specific meaning in the world of inspecting - it refers to someone who has particular skill or knowledge in an area.

A "competent" chimney inspector would be someone who can perform a Level II and can specify the appropriate fix. If you were a "competent chimney inspector" you wouldn't be coming here for advice on the chimney installation - we'd be looking to you for advice.

Some people here have particular trades they specialize in (e.g. Bob Harper with wood burning appliances, Ron Hasil with plumbing, or Bill Kreigh with electrical), while others draw on more general knowledge without a particular speciality. Not everyone can be an expert on everything (although Jerry Peck and H.G. Watson will try) and sometimes if something is wrong you will want to refer it to a specialist.

If a foundation has severe cracking you're going to refer the client to a "competent" engineer. A "competent" engineer will have extensive knowledge of foundations and know how to design a proper repair. By suggesting a "competent" engineer you would in no way be slighting other engineers who don't know much about foundation repairs, you're just being specific about the type of engineer needed.

Likewise, when I suggested referring the chimney to a "competent" inspector I meant if you are unsure about what is wrong and how to make it right, you should refer it to someone whose job it is to know those things. If you still feel that's an attack I'm afraid I can't help you with that.

Originally Posted by Dan Hagman

Thanks for all your responses. I did not overreact as I knew exactly what I was doing in asking the question and making the statement of assumption. I needed a quick answer for help and you guys responded to me. Although I do feel attack but that's OK. I agree HG, this is totally wrong but I couldn't find it so I asked for help. I wrote this up as a wrong and unsafe installation and won't explain all the words included. I was looking for validation from you guys and you gave me critisizm,I was looking for code violations in the IRC and you gave me incompetent personal findings. I was looking for help, just help. Is this site only for the most experience or can anyone ask for help.I do appreciate your answers because they all helped me learn some more about this. So Thanks!

I don't know what you're talking about!

I gave you IRC references, a quote and a citation (R1005), I gave you a starting point in NFPA 211 (most recent edition) citation in chapter 6.

I explained the IRC makes reference to ANSI/UL standards for manufactured chimney system, and referenced those very standards (along with the mfg directions for the system) specifically state they incorporate requirements of NFPA 211 and drew the circle for you - bringing you back to the exact language in the IRC at that reference which has been borrowed nearly verbatim from NFPA 211. Follow the cross references from R1005 and will take you eventually to six to Ch. 3.

I don't see where anyone, myself included, made any references regards to anything other than an illogical and impatient ASSUMPTION that all must be okay since noone had yet objected to the existing installation regards your photos.

Incredible 30 yrs in HVAC and 15 installing and replacing basement furnaces (other thread comments) you wouldn't be familiar with requirements for manufactured chimneys and appliance vents requring separation in occupied floors other than those where the system originates.

Hi Dan,

You can't expect an instant response on this, or any other forum.

I am set to "digest" mode which means that this hit my email box first thing this morning.

I didn't necessarily see any of the responses as "attacks", but since it has been adequately and correctly answered by HG, there is no need for me (or anyone else who is an expert in the field of chimney inspections) to respond further on this topic.

Chin up Dan. Remember, syntax in an email is often misunderstood because there's no voice inflection or body language involved in this medium of communication.

Sincerely,
Bart Ogden
Wichita, KS
NCSG Technical Advisory Committee Member
CSIA CCS #2653
NFI Master Hearth Professional

Originally Posted by Dan Hagman

Thanks for all your responses. I did not overreact as I knew exactly what I was doing in asking the question and making the statement of assumption. I needed a quick answer for help and you guys responded to me. Although I do feel attack but that's OK. I agree HG, this is totally wrong but I couldn't find it so I asked for help. I wrote this up as a wrong and unsafe installation and won't explain all the words included. I was looking for validation from you guys and you gave me critisizm,I was looking for code violations in the IRC and you gave me incompetent personal findings. I was looking for help, just help. Is this site only for the most experience or can anyone ask for help.I do appreciate your answers because they all helped me learn some more about this. So Thanks!

OK, it appears that I misunderstood all of your intentions and I stand to be corrected. Thanks for the advice and information. HG, you gave detailed information and I thank you for that. It was all good direction. Thanks again.

Sorry I've been gone so long--'puter crashed.

The exposed factory chimney must be protected from impact and incidental contact to maintain stated clearances. It also must be protected from people making contact with a potetially hot surface. In areas where the code requires 'vertical fireblocking' it would need to be enclosed floor to ceiling.

Note the homemade two piece firestop on the ceiling. This a red flag as is the pitched roof support used flat on the floor on top of the listed firestop. I would recommend a hearth pro pull that ceiling firestop and inspect that roof penetration with a copy of the listed instructions in hand. You also have the issue of attic insulation shields and possibly radiant heat shielding required in this space.
Bob