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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Spokane, WA
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    116

    Default Deteriorated Liners

    This house was built in 1981. The sellers have lived in the home for 20+ years and have never lit a fire in any of the 3 fireplaces. The top liner is deteriorated below the cap on all three flues. I have called them out for repair. My question is in this condition are the fireplaces unsafe to use? Should this be listed as a safety hazard? Thanks for the input.

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    116

    Default Re: Deteriorated Liners

    My bad. Here's the photos

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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: Deteriorated Liners

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Anglin View Post
    This house was built in 1981. The sellers have lived in the home for 20+ years and have never lit a fire in any of the 3 fireplaces. The top liner is deteriorated below the cap on all three flues. I have called them out for repair. My question is in this condition are the fireplaces unsafe to use? Should this be listed as a safety hazard? Thanks for the input.
    The pictured, the history you outline, and the circumstances you describe, necessate specialized and qualified professional inspection at a minimum Level II (areas likely requiring Level III if to be retained) or complete decomissioning and demolition.

    Structural analysis determination & Level II if decomissioning and not demolishing, recommended due to circumstances described, implied by 20+ years of non-use, non-inspection nor maintenance & obvious prior use/soot, unknown history of fire - chimney or other source of at least one of the flues in chimney pictured, and your seismic zone/location.

    Difficult to "know" for sure without a scale reference and camera lense distortion, but I question the adequacy/sufficiency of structure masonry chimney in the first place (depth perception view far side wash vs. brick vs. flue tile not suggestive of multiple wythes).

    Defer to a qualified professional to perform a minimum NFPA 211 Level II Inspection for all, such as a F.I.R.E. professional.

    See Chapter 14 of the 2010 edition of NFPA 211.

    The 2010 edition of NFPA 211 can be viewed on-line in view only mode, for free at the following link (clickable link to same):
    NFPA 211: Standard for Chimneys, Fireplaces, Vents, and Solid Fuel-Burning Appliances

    You need only register with the site for free access and verify that registration process (via the email links) , and be be prepaired to sign-in when prompted to do so.

    Pay special attention to:

    Review table @ 14.2.1, all of subsections 14.2, 14.3, 14.4 and 14.5.


    From Table 14.2.1:

    Indications:
    Level I: For verification of suitability of the chimney for continued service, under the same conditions and with the same appliance or appliances.

    Level II: For verification of suitability of the chimney for new or changed conditions of service; Level I inspection not sufficient to determine servicability of the chimney.

    Level III: When construction of all or part of a chimney is deemed critical to its renewed or continued use; required only for those ares that cannot be properly evaluated by a Level I or Level II inspection.


    See Section 14.4: (Note 20 years of non-maintenance, non-service, and non-use & a change in ownership/transfer of property, and the obvious defects & deterioration noted in pictures).

    14.4 Level II Inspections. A Level II inspection is indicated when verification of the suitability of the chimney for new or changed conditions of service is needed or when Level I inspection is not sufficient to determine the serviceability of the chimney.

    14.4.1 Circumstances. A Level II inspection shall be conducted under the following circumstances:


    (1) Upon addition or removal of one or more connected appliances or upon replacement of an appliance with one or more of disimilar type, insput rating, or efficiency, unless the last connected appliance and chimney use will be discontinued.



    (2) Prior to relining of a flue or replacement of flue lining, in accordance with 7.1.10.

    (3) Upon sale or transfer of the property.

    (4) After building or chimney fire, weather or seismic event, or other incident likely to have caused damage to the chimney.

    (5) At other times as indicated in Section 14.3.







    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 09-02-2012 at 02:05 PM. Reason: still missing some "a"s.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southern Vancouver Island
    Posts
    4,546

    Default Re: Deteriorated Liners

    For one thing, Bill, we don't know where the broken chunks ended up. Good bet there are pieces of flue tile laying on the smoke shelf, where they will affect the draft and the operation of the damper.

    #2, the chimneys won't draw properly, because a wind across the opening will tend to blow down the hole. There is a good reason for the extension of the flue tile above the cap.

    Damaged and unsafe.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

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