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  1. #1
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    Default Chimney attachment in attic

    Cant figure out if this is an acceptable installation.

    R1003.4.1 Anchorage.
    Two 3/16-inch by 1-inch (5mmby 25
    mm) straps shall be embedded a minimum of 12 inches (305
    mm) into the chimney. Straps shall be hooked around the
    outer bars and extend 6 inches (152 mm) beyond the bend.
    Each strap shall be fastened to a minimum of four floor joists

    with two
    1/2-inch (13 mm) bolts.


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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Chimney attachment in attic

    I don't see any evidence of a masonry or concrete chimney?

    Is there a masonry or concrete chimney, or is it a framed chimney?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Chimney attachment in attic

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I don't see any evidence of a masonry or concrete chimney?

    Is there a masonry or concrete chimney, or is it a framed chimney?
    You bet, sorry, its to the right of the pic.

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Chimney attachment in attic

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I don't see any evidence of a masonry or concrete chimney?

    Is there a masonry or concrete chimney, or is it a framed chimney?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    You bet, sorry, its to the right of the pic.
    "Is there a masonry or concrete chimney, or is it a framed chimney?"

    "You bet, sorry, its to the right of the pic."

    Which is to the right of the pic? Masonry or frame?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Chimney attachment in attic

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    "Is there a masonry or concrete chimney, or is it a framed chimney?"

    "You bet, sorry, its to the right of the pic."

    Which is to the right of the pic? Masonry or frame?
    I thought that the mere fact that there were steel straps suggested that a masonry chimney was present. So to be super specific, it's a precast rampart general chimney system. For a second there I almost forgot that you are a professional litigation expert....juuuust for a second though.

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  6. #6
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    Cool Re: Chimney attachment in attic

    Well, the straps cannot be cast into a Rampart General anyway and those fireplaces are defective. I'm sure if it has ever been burned, the calcium aluminate refractory breast plate has failed and it cannot be repaired in the field.

    No, those straps are on the webs of the trusses--not secured into four joists. Should the chimney attempt to collapse in a seismic event, it would surely collapse this part of the roof and possibly breach the living space below. Such strapping is intended to retard the eventual collapse of a chimney during a seismic event merely to allow occupants sufficient time to escape---not to prevent damage to the chimney.

    Shouldn't really even need a Level II inspection but when in doubt they can call Dale Feb.

    Recommend full removal and replace with a factory built fireplace.

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Chimney attachment in attic

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    I thought that the mere fact that there were steel straps suggested that a masonry chimney was present. So to be super specific, it's a precast rampart general chimney system.
    Then it is not a "masonry or concrete" chimney, is it? In which case that code section would not apply ... like it would not apply to a frame chimney.

    For a second there I almost forgot that you are a professional litigation expert....juuuust for a second though.
    Why do you think I wanted the specificity of what was actually there?

    I'd have to do some research to find out how those precast fireplaces and chimneys should be anchored to resist seismic forces - but I'm not getting paid for that ... ... you know, such as first reviewing the installation instructions and any product approvals they might have, if any, for installation in areas subject to seismic forces.

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Chimney attachment in attic

    Jerry, the Rampart General was a monolithic pre-cast fireplace and chimney. It was cast horizontally in a mold, cured, trucked to a site where a slab had been poured, hoisted vertical by a crane, then a footing poured under it. It has certain well documented defects and cannot be field repaired. This product once comprised two whole days of training in Dale Feb's FIRE course. It does not come with seismic straps cast into it and there is no approved way of strapping it. Even if never burned, the rebar corrodes causing failures in the corners vertically. They really should be removed-period.

    While mainly a Southern Calif. product, a few made it as far as Maryland that we're aware of.

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Chimney attachment in attic

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Harper View Post
    Jerry, the Rampart General was a monolithic pre-cast fireplace and chimney. It was cast horizontally in a mold, cured, trucked to a site where a slab had been poured, hoisted vertical by a crane, then a footing poured under it. It has certain well documented defects and cannot be field repaired. This product once comprised two whole days of training in Dale Feb's FIRE course. It does not come with seismic straps cast into it and there is no approved way of strapping it. Even if never burned, the rebar corrodes causing failures in the corners vertically. They really should be removed-period.

    While mainly a Southern Calif. product, a few made it as far as Maryland that we're aware of.
    Bob,

    A franchisee of Rampart General, manufactured on the east coast, and may have manufactured some sold/installed in Philly area/Baltimore area/mid-atlantic region, in addition to Sarasota, Florida area.

    Not sure if the google-news archieve link to scanned newspaper article from 1979 will work (hopefully, clickable link below) I typed it out in a quote box. {I may have missed a few "a"s in my typing, but the one the newspaper typesetter missed ("sttes" instead of "states") is denoted by my insertion of "(sic)".}

    Pay special attention to the installations already completed in Florida at the time of the article, and the plans to not only continue to handle "the line" from Philly and Baltimore, but to manufacture via A-Lok-Atlantic Concrete as well; at the bottom of the article.

    Interesting as well, the claims of the attributed and quoted comments from the francisee/local manufacturer, including claims the fireplaces having been "tempered" .

    Perhaps you can screen print or print to file, and/or share with Dale and others as you research, consult, inform, etc.

    Thought you'd find it helpful. In general, not just a "California" or just a "West Coast" problem, nor merely limited to "Rampart General, Inc."; or for that matter not just limited to "in the design of" or "style of" "just" Rampart General.

    Sarasota Journal - May 18, 1979



    Local Firm Checks Market

    'Instant Fireplaces' Are Tested in Sarsasota

    By Pete Dobens
    Journal Business Writer


    Sarasota hs been chosen as test market for the latest of America's "Instant" products: instant fireplaces.

    Built by A-Lok Products - Atlantic Concrete on Myrtle Avenue, the "'instant fireplaces'" can be installed in a home in 24 hours.

    Coronado Stone of Sarasota is the exclusive sales and instllation agents in this area for the fireplaces. Corondo president Steve Velli-quette said the idea has been well received by local developers and the idea's popularity is growing.

    A-Lok Products bought the local franchise for the instant fireplaces from Rampart General, Inc. of Santa Ana, Calif. Rampart preseident Bill Harris was the designer of the original concept.

    Tris Ditcher, president of A-Lok and Secretary and general manager of Atlantic Concrete, said he has been involved in the project for only about two months.

    Eventually looked at as a mass production item, the concrete fireplaces are now being installed in a number of local homes on an order only basis.

    Ditcher said the idea is to follow in the footsteps of Rampart General and make up to 150 fireplaces daily. Rampart builds and sells 150 of the instant fireplaces each day at the firm's two California plants.

    A pre-fab fireplace can be as built and installed for up to $*00 (?) less than mason-built project, said Larry Bower, marketing manager of Coronado Stone.

    Velliquette said the costs of installation and construction is cut because of the one-piece casting. The entire fireplace is one piece when installed, no joints which could be weak points.

    Ditcher said the fireplaces are built by pouring concrete in a specialized mold. The concrete then hardens and is ready for transportation to the site for installation. Installtion at homesite can be completed within 24 hours. Works (sic) include the installation of the fireplace and some additional stone work from Corondo on the inside and outside of the home.

    The interior of the precast fireplace is tempered. Ditcher said the concrete is never in danger of overheating and cracking because the design keeps the heat away from the exterior portions of the unit. The heat is reflected from the interior of the unit into the home more efficiently than the conventional cast iron models now being installed in a number of homes.

    Using reinforced concrete and a constant mold, fireplaces can be built uniformly, said Ditcher. Uniform construction means crucial construction points can be better watched and problems avoided.

    Ditcher sid the most important part of a fireplace is the smoke shelf. If the shelf is not built correctly, smoke from the fireplace might not be drawn out the chimney but pushed into the home. A precast construction allows for uniform construction and insures correct operation.

    All chimneys are also equipped with dampers, Ditchner said, but, at the present, the chimneys do not have outside "cleanouts." Ditcher said cleanouts will be included in future models. A cleanout is the small exterior trap door used to clean the ashes from the chimney.

    Instant fireplaces are designed for the life of a home, said Bower. The structure will enhance a home and be an asset in resale. Units can be installed in any living unit, except a mobile home.

    Through the efforts of Bower and Keith Burr of Coronado, the fireplace units are available in Sarasota, Manatee and Charlotte counties.

    "We are the guinea pigs," said Ditcher. "We are the first ones to have a franchise."

    Atlantic Concrete has offices in Philadelphia and Baltimore and eventually will begin selling the fireplaces, said Ditcher. While A-Lok is a separate corporation, it is owned and operated by Ditcher, an official of Atlantic Concrete. He said Atlantic will still handle the line in the middle Atlantic sttes (sic).

    Sarasota has already proven it is ready for the units. At the recent Contractors' Expo 79 at the Exhibition Hall, 38 inquiry cards were mailed to Corondo Stone. Since then, 32 job orders have been taken.

    Ditcher said sales locally have differed greatly from the experiences of Rampart General. In California, the bulk of the sales are to individual homeowners. Since beginning to write orders locally, the bulk of requests have been from developers who want an added touch to area developments.
    Caption to photos (2) by Sarasota Journal photographer -- Joyce Mendelsohn...
    Jim Parker and Steve Velliquette, above, prepare fireplace mold for pouring, and, at left, Velliquette, Jerry Smith, A-Lok office manager and Tris Ditcher, general manager, check over nearly finished 'instant' fireplace.
    above from:

    Friday, May 18, 1979 -- pg. 15-A Business;
    Sarasota (Fla.) Journal.

    Not sure this Google News link will work for ya'll, or for how long, here-goes:

    Sarasota Journal - Google News Archive Search



    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 12-30-2012 at 12:32 PM. Reason: sheesh, formatting errors, and a few missing 'A's

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Chimney attachment in attic

    P.S. here is a currently working link to one of Dale Feb's articles on Rampart General, at one of his web-sites. (Its a pdf file, suggest one downloads a copy to read/scan first before opening).

    Clickable link to Dale Feb's article on his site: http://www.fireassociates.org/media/pre-cast.pdf

    Note his warnings regarding post-tension slabs, etc. on demo.

    HTH.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Chimney attachment in attic

    So! If an 8.0 or greater eathquake hits, the chimney will be braced by the compression webs of the truss. Yea. Lets transfer the lateral loads to the truss webs.

    Only in America.


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