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  1. #1
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    Default Height of Oil-Fired Furnace Flue Pipe

    The vent opening on the top of this flue pipe was a little more than 1 foot above the roof surface. There was a good bit of soot debris laying on the basement floor in the area beneath the barometric damper door which appears to mean the drafting of the furnace is being affected by the height of the flue pipe.

    Does the 3/2/10 rule apply to oil fired chimneys and flue pipes?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Height of Oil-Fired Furnace Flue Pipe

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    The vent opening on the top of this flue pipe was a little more than 1 foot above the roof surface.

    .

    Does the 3/2/10 rule apply to oil fired chimneys and flue pipes?
    The 3-2-10 rule applies only to chimneys.

    This is what the IRC says, and this is only in the absence of the manufacturer's installation instructions instructions which rule over the code (but also meet the code, and may be more stringent than the code):
    - M1804.2 Termination. Vent termination shall comply with Sections M1804.2.1 through M1804.2.6.
    - - M1804.2.1 Through the roof. Vents passing through a roof shall extend through flashing and terminate in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation requirements.
    - - M1804.2.2 Decorative shrouds. Decorative shrouds shall not be installed at the termination of vents except where the shrouds are listed and labeled or use with the specific venting system and are installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions.
    - - M1804.2.3 Natural draft appliances. Vents for natural draft appliances shall terminate at least 5 feet (1524 mm) above the highest connected appliance outlet, and natural draft gas vents serving wall furnaces shall terminate at an elevation at least 12 feet (3658 mm) above the bottom of the furnace.
    - - M1804.2.4 Type L vent. Type L venting systems shall conform to UL 641 and shall terminate with a listed and labeled cap in accordance with the vent manufacturer’s installation instructions not less than 2 feet (610 mm) above the roof and not less than 2 feet (610 mm) above any portion of the building within 10 feet (3048 mm).

    Based on your photo, that vent needs to terminate at least 2 feet above that higher roof, which is within 10 feet of the vent, and it also need to terminate at least 2 feet higher than any part of the sloped roof within 10 feet of the vent, and ... in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions.

    Thus that vent definitely looks to be too short.

    I also have a problem with that plumbing vent being right next to that oil fired furnace vent - that is too close together.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Height of Oil-Fired Furnace Flue Pipe

    Is that type 'L' vent or type 'B' vent? Cannot use B-vent for oil. Otherwise, I think JP covered the termination and height rules.

    Note that when you use factory 'chimney', you must meet the 3/2/10 rule for 'chimneys' as it is not a 'vent'.

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Height of Oil-Fired Furnace Flue Pipe

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Harper View Post
    Is that type 'L' vent or type 'B' vent? Cannot use B-vent for oil.
    Bob,

    What are the visual identification factors to tell 'L' vent from 'B' vent (other than it being marked 'L' vent)?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  5. #5
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    Cool Re: Height of Oil-Fired Furnace Flue Pipe

    JP, it must have listing stickers or be embossed stating the class of venting, mfr and clearances to combustibles. The inner liner on 'L' vent is stainless steel vs. aluminum for gas. Otherwise, they can look identical. Similar joining systems, firestops, supports, etc.

    The thing I cannot emphasize enough with ANY factory venting is to use their adapter to single walled pipe. Whether "class A" factory chimney for woodstoves and oil heaters, types B or L vent or especially the AL29-4c stainless for positive vent pressure condensing appliances, you really should use the proper transition. Also note these transitions carry the same clearance to combustibles as a single walled connector because they do not have the same insulation as the regular pipe sections do.

    To your point about the proximity of that stink pipe to this vent: I agree it is too close for two reasons. First, corrosive fumes could corrode a metal vent stack. Even if plastic, the fumes from the stink pipe could get recirculated back down the oil vent at standby, esp. in summer. A good rule of thumb for oil vents is to discharge them at least 18" above and 18" laterally from ANY other metal, vent or opening to the building. I see oil vents right next to fireplace terminations all the time and those fireplace terminations are corroded. Even on masonry chimneys, I find some corrosion in the fireplace flue's top tile from the adjoining oil flue even where the wythe separating them appears intact and there does not appear to be a breech communicating between them. When I would reline oil flues, the oil liner termination would butt against the rain cap on the fireplace and allow easy shunting of flue gases either way. I talked a major liner mfr. into making and 18" extension for such cases and its now a popular option. When you see a liner terminating right next to a fireplace rain cap, recommend it be extended with the oil above the Fp.

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Height of Oil-Fired Furnace Flue Pipe

    The installation had other issues too like many areas of inadequate clearances and return ducting left in an incomplete state.

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Height of Oil-Fired Furnace Flue Pipe

    Nick,

    You've pictured Chimney, not L-Vent in this photo (and its likely been in use for well over 20 years):



    That's Hart & Cooley's legacy Model D pre-1985-ish UL 103 Coil, Oil or Wood Res. Heating Appliance chimney. It requires a 2" air space clearance - must meet the 3-10 rule and others- be properly terminated and shouldn't have "any-ol'" caulk on it.

    Say for example that chimney is through a 4/12 roof, penetrates at 8' from the peak, it would need to be MORE than 36" high.

    It might be "sooty" if it was used for dual fuel or coal, or if the oil burning equipment hasn't been properly maintained, and since it is TOO SHORT, there may be and have been draft problems.

    It MUST meet the chimney clearance & height rules. The photographed label above is NOT L-Vent (Low Temperature Oil Vent) it is a Higher Temperture CHIMNEY (Old edition UL 103...1700 degrees IIRC) that was made for Coal, Oil, and Wood fired Residential Heating Appliances.

    Can't tell if its 6", 7" or 8", as the photographed label is somewhat deteriorated and photo unclear, but likely a 7" for oil furnace & WH (dimensions for chimney are always the diameter of the inner liner).

    If the chimney is in good condition, clean enough, and properly supported and clearanced it can be extended to a PROPER height by using a Hart & Cooley adapter (Cat. no. begins with the size such as 6 for 6", 7 for 7", 8 for 8" , for example the 7" adapter is catalog no. 7TD-TLCA) and then extended and terminated with the same size current chimney Hart and Cooley Chimney parts Model TLC (HT). It may require roof top support if the chimney nears or exceeds 48" above the roof deck, depending on how it is supported below the roofline,

    That particular chimney (Hart and Cooley's Model D Chimney) was made until about 1985 where the next generation of revised temperature/testing/listing requirements for UL 103 went into effect.

    It (Model D) was then "superceeded" with Model "TD" which was made until about 2004/5.

    When the UL 103HT standards went into effect (tested to 2100 degrees) approx 2004 or 2005, "Model TD" was then "superceeded" with the present Hart and Cooley "Model TLC" (Twist Lock Chimney) which meets 103HT.

    When a file, issue, or listing number is discontinued, UL takes it out of the public on-line (non-proprietary) certification directory database. The chimney you photographed hasn't been made for many years, and is likely why you were unfamiliar with the labeling information - however - it is clearly marked "chimney" and further it indicates it is insulated by other than "just air" - this should "clue" you as to it NOT being a "vent".

    HTH.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 01-07-2013 at 03:30 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Height of Oil-Fired Furnace Flue Pipe

    Thanks for the info buddy.

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

  9. #9
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    Cool Re: Height of Oil-Fired Furnace Flue Pipe

    If you look on top of the rain cap, you'll most likely see the identification markings embossed into the metal.

    Yes, factory chimney is required to meet 3/2/10. May not be the cause of the sooting. Recommend certified pro conduct combustion analysis and correct as needed.

    The fact there is overt soot visible in the room means it could be all over the house. If there are any return leaks, it is virtually guaranteed. The seller of the house should file a claim with their homeowner's insurance if they can convince them it was "sudden and accidental" within the last 12 months. Otherwise, the buyers will move into a soiled house and could come after you if you fail to report it.

    CYA

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

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