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  1. #1
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    Default Outdoor wood burning FP with no cap on vent

    Curious...builder's Super is telling me no cap is required for this outdoor FP meant to burn solid fuel. Claims a cap makes it soot-up too much.
    Doubting he's correct, need more to go on.

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    Last edited by Dave Hahn; 07-20-2014 at 07:11 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Mar 2007
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    Plano, Texas
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    4,170

    Default Re: Outdoor wood burning FP with B-vert liner but no cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hahn View Post
    Curious...builder's Super is telling me no cap is required for this outdoor FP meant to burn solid fuel. Claims a cap makes it soot-up too much.
    Doubting he's correct, need more to go on.
    I call B/S.
    Since it is a factory made fireplace from all appearances, the entire fireplace and chimney must be installed to the manufacturers installation instructions. Ask the builder to show you that installation proviso in the manufacturers instructions or the listing and labeling.... crickets chirping...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    I call B/S.
    Since it is a factory made fireplace from all appearances, the entire fireplace and chimney must be installed to the manufacturers installation instructions. Ask the builder to show you that installation proviso in the manufacturers instructions or the listing and labeling.... crickets chirping...
    By the way, that is not a b-vent pipe. Bvent is not for solid fuel appliances.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    112

    Default Re: Outdoor wood burning FP with B-vert liner but no cap

    Thanks Jim.
    Yeah, knee-jerk typo on calling that B-vent.


  4. #4
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    Near Philly, Pa.
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    Default Re: Outdoor wood burning FP with B-vert liner but no cap

    Factory built fireplace--must be installed in accordance with the listed instructions. That includes a chase flashing, storm collar, rain cap and minimum chimney height. Moreover, factory built fireplaces used outdoors must be tested and listed as such. If it is not on the rating plate and note made of stainless steel, then it is improper and should be called out. No, it's air cooled factory chimney and cannot cool the firebox if the listed termination is not installed to separate the cooling air from the exhaust.

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
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    Default Re: Outdoor wood burning FP with B-vert liner but no cap

    UPDATE:
    OK, so the builder claims no cap needed and not required by code (love that one don't we).
    Manual for the FMI brand m/n VS36 (looked-up on line) says cap.

    Go back today and here's builder's solution.
    Trying to clarify (R1003.9.1) whether this grate is OK (not in lieu of the cap).

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  6. #6
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    Mar 2007
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    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    Default Re: Outdoor wood burning FP with B-vert liner but no cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hahn View Post
    UPDATE:
    OK, so the builder claims no cap needed and not required by code (love that one don't we).
    Manual for the FMI brand m/n VS36 (looked-up on line) says cap.

    Go back today and here's builder's solution.
    Trying to clarify (R1003.9.1) whether this grate is OK (not in lieu of the cap).
    Heck no that is not OK..... The cap/shroud must be approved for that unit. Look at the entire fireplace, cap included as an entire system. It has specific components that are all designed to work together.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  7. #7
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    Aug 2011
    Location
    Bennett (Denver metro), Colorado
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    1,394

    Default Re: Outdoor wood burning FP with B-vert liner but no cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hahn View Post
    UPDATE:
    OK, so the builder claims no cap needed and not required by code (love that one don't we).
    Manual for the FMI brand m/n VS36 (looked-up on line) says cap.

    Go back today and here's builder's solution.
    Trying to clarify (R1003.9.1) whether this grate is OK (not in lieu of the cap).
    Don't be surprised if the builder is also incorrect about what code says....check with your AHJ.

    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    26,250

    Default Re: Outdoor wood burning FP with B-vert liner but no cap

    Heck no ... and I see someone else has a Crack Comparator.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Memphis TN.
    Posts
    4,311

    Default Re: Outdoor wood burning FP with B-vert liner but no cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hahn View Post
    UPDATE:
    OK, so the builder claims no cap needed and not required by code (love that one don't we).
    Manual for the FMI brand m/n VS36 (looked-up on line) says cap.

    Go back today and here's builder's solution.
    Trying to clarify (R1003.9.1) whether this grate is OK (not in lieu of the cap).
    An expanded metal sheet attached with screws is not a "Spark Arrestor."
    *but they do work Great on the Barb Q Grill.

    Chapter 10 - Chimneys and Fireplaces

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Near Philly, Pa.
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    Angry Re: Outdoor factory built wood burning FP with factory chimney but no cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hahn View Post
    UPDATE:
    OK, so the builder claims no cap needed and not required by code (love that one don't we).
    Manual for the FMI brand m/n VS36 (looked-up on line) says cap.

    Go back today and here's builder's solution.
    Trying to clarify (R1003.9.1) whether this grate is OK (not in lieu of the cap).
    That's not a grate--its screening and its not the listed termination. This is cut and dried. Tell the moron to read the stupid manual. The listed cap costs a lot less than litigation. Have the weenie read my post. The cap is required to maintain the warranty and listing. It is against the code and thus against the law to install this fireplace without the listed termination-period. Is any part of that enclosure combustible? Is the fireplace listed for outdoor use? Rain will destroy the fireplace as is. I'd send the idiot a certified letter ret. rec't. to comply with the code and listing and Cc the fire marshal.

    R1003.9.1 is for masonry chimneys--this is factory built. Your applicable section is R1004.1 which basically says install the %@&! fireplace in accordance with the listed instructions-period. Is he brain dead? I'm sure the weenie is worried about the aesthetics and the few bucks cost. It needs a chase top, storm collar and rain cap. Sheesh!

    Keep the fire in the fireplace.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    112

    Default Re: Outdoor wood burning FP with B-vert liner but no cap

    Thanks to all.
    I forgot to add one of those little emoticons. I was joking about needing to see if the grate was an acceptable alternative to the cap. I expressed all of the same frustration with the builder to my client and have provided him the manufacturer's link on the product so he can stick it in the builders face.

    http://fmisupport.hcents.com/support...11026-01L1.pdf

    Thanks again.
    And Jerry, yes, I grabbed 5 or so of those crack gauges somewhere long ago. Handy little things.


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Outdoor wood burning FP with B-vert liner but no cap

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hahn View Post
    And Jerry, yes, I grabbed 5 or so of those crack gauges somewhere long ago. Handy little things.
    The company that made those used to send them to you for free - this was years ago, I ordered 50 for our local chapter down in South Florida and offered them to whoever wanted them ... only a few of the guys took some. I then took the rest to our state association at a meeting and offered the rest (I kept a few for myself) - it is almost like no one wanted them, but enough did take two or three that all I was left with were my few ... maybe 15 people out of 200 I offered them to took some.

    "Handy little things." I agree.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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