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  1. #1
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    Default Immediate Assistance Required

    This sectional chimney was inspected by a WETT inspector. In his initial report he stated that the section was damaged and should be replaced. Today the inspector was called back by the listing agent to take a look at the section which had been taken down and placed on the ground. The inspector has now stated verbally that the section is fine and does not need replacing. He has yet to issue a revision in writing.

    My client is concerned as I am that a damaged section should be replaced since there could be internal damage that cannot be seen from a simple visible inspection.

    Is my concern and that of my client warranted?

    I told my client that the WETT inspector should state in writing his revised findings, no verbal guarantees are legally binding, not to mention any liability associated.


    Thank you.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    I concur.

    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    Thanks Len.

    Subsequently and through my persistence and my clients agent pushed the issue and the 'listing' agent has now committed to paying $500 from her commission cheque to cover replacement and labour to replace the damage section for my client.

    My client is happy and I am happy and my clients agent is happy. The listing agent is not happy. $500 less for her to go shopping for Xmas gifts. There is a God!


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    Observation: 1: The lower portion of the factory built chimney is stained with soot. This can be from the chimney not being the required height, poor drafting, damper issues, improperly vented chimney, chimney blockage from bird or animal nesting to not cleaning out the ash tray before you burn another fire.
    2: There is an open slash in the metal envelope.
    chimney stoot staining.JPG
    Recommend: A licensed manufactured chimney installer report on the chimney condition and provide a test fire to track down the poor drafting conditions.
    Enact any repairs.
    A low to heigh cost of $400 to $750 or higher can be expected. Chimney sections may have to be replaced or added on.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    I didn't read your post Ray.
    That entire manufactured chaney may need replacing. It looks like it is nearing its live expectancy. There have been many hot fires burnt by the looks of it.
    Ask the vendor for any receipts of when the unit was installed. Expect 15 years tops for a stainless chimney. It depends on how many burning hours and how hot the fire.

    The slash would not bother me but I would write it us with a recommendation. Look like the WETT inspector works with the agent.
    Hope that helps.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 12-17-2014 at 05:50 PM. Reason: Adding.
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    Thanks Robert,

    It looks like a slash/dent/hole. The WETT inspector is out to lunch as far as I am concerned and he should not be inspecting. When he was at the inspection I told my client about the chimney and told her to go tell the WETT inspector to take a look at the top of the chimney. He came out and used binoculars to look at the top of the chimney.

    Personally I think some of these WETT inspectors are clueless, and WETT inspector should be sweeping first then inspecting. Otherwise its just an exercise in bring back in an other inspector post visual.


    Also I noted that during the inspection my client was asked to sign the contract post inspection, and we all know what the courts have said about inspection contracts signed post inspection. A BIG NO NO!

    LIMITATIONS and EXCLUSIONS;

    The information indicated above is acquired by performance of a Level 1 BASIC WETT inspection only. This type of inspection is a general overview of the readily accessible parts of a wood burning system to determine whether it meets current standards and regulations.
    This type of inspection is a visual inspection only. Components are NOT disassembled. Defects in and deterioration of components may exist and become apparent after cleaning and/or dismantling of components or the system that may require repair and have associated costs. The WETT inspection is based on the condition of the wood-burning appliance only, existing and apparent at the time and date of the inspection. Clearances to and condition of concealed wood framing members cannot be determined by a WETT inspection. Components and parts of components that are not completely visible, such as but not limited to the following; The interior of the chimney flue, top of smoke shelf, interior of ash dump and exterior air intake vents, top side of damper, internal condition of air circulation ducts; both metal and masonry, condition of masonry behind metal liners, breech pipes, heat exchangers cannot be thoroughly inspected. The inspector is not responsible for the non-discovery of any patent or latent defects in materials, workmanship, or other conditions of the wood burning appliance or installation of the appliance, or any other problems that may occur or become evident after the inspection time and date.
    It should be understood that all wood burning appliances (Stoves, fireplaces, inserts, etc.) and associated chimneys and components have a limited lifespan and require periodic replacement, repairs and maintenance. The inspector makes no warranty expressed or implied, as to the performance of the systems or components inspected.
    If the installation manual for the wood burning appliance is not present at the time of the inspection, or an approved certification plate is not present, legible or visible, the manufacturer’s specific clearance requirements cannot be determined. Clearance requirements from the CSA B365-1 will be used.
    The inspector will not be held responsible for damage caused from chimney fires as a result of poor maintenance and/or poor firing techniques.
    In the event of a chimney fire this report is null and void.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    Was that LIMITATIONS and EXCLUSIONS from the WEET inspector? If it is, "That's is one sorry excuse for a WEET inspector." I wish I was there Ray.


    Ray, this guy should be checked out by the fire marshal. The sad thing is, someone may pay for his mistake with the life.
    Regards!


    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    Yes Robert those limitations/disclaimers are on his report. And I concur with your concerns.

    As for liability this seems to be the least thing on his mind. He is also a home inspector.

    Also part of the overall problem with WETT is that the insurers seem to think these cursory inspections are suitable. They are not.

    I have yet to see a WETT inspection where the chimney was swept first and then inspected top to bottom. My guess is that there are many unsafe installations that are ticking time bombs.

    Thanks for your feedback.

    Merry Christmas (Joyeux Noel) and the best for 2015!


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    as a WETT inspector, he found deficiencies with the smoke stack, even tho it was from a safe distance.

    Then as a home inspector/competitor talking to you know who, he decides the pipe's ok after all. Funny one, Raymond.

    PS, anyone can see the joints have been leaking on that stack. It is fried.

    PPS, the WETT inspection is void as well, because that may very well have been a chimney fire and he has a disclaimer for a chimney fire in his contract, double funny one.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    I had to Google WETT to find out what it was ... didn't know if it meant they were still WET behind The ears ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    Wood Energy Technologists do the equivalent of Class II and III chimney and woodstove inspections, WETT inspections, in Canada. FYI, y'all.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    On the lighter side. How often do you Wett yourselves in Canada?


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    Thanks for the feedback gents.

    WETT inspector noted the fireplace as wood burning fireplace insert when in fact its a factory built fireplace.

    The secondary inspection when he was called back makes no mention of the dents, whereas his first report for my client makes note of the dents! The stains/soot had been cleaned off when I went back yesterday, and the dented section had been rotated in so the full extent of the dents cannot be seen from the ground. (2 story house). In the final report he has stated -

    Report Summary;

    Fireplace insert and visible components DOES meet WETT installation requirements.


    From another WETT inspector I trust and use who looked at the photos - along with Lon, Robert and Johns opinions above.

    I do think that it should be replaced and possibly not just one section. Could be the whole chimney needs to be replaced. Given the age, It could also be an old Class A chimney. If its still on the ground measure the wall thickness. I'll bet you see its a 1" wall. Most (not all) wood burning steel chimneys are 2" wall. which means there could be an issue replacing the sections lower in the attic and wall.
    He has issued the report on P2P letterhead which has the WETT logo on it. You all know how I feel about P2P.

    In my view this guy has left himself wide open for a law suit.

    Thanks again!

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    On the lighter side. How often do you Wett yourselves in Canada?
    Well on long inspections when utilities are not on, I wear Depends!


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    When you see an outside expert offer a dubious opinion or evaluation, do you ever recommend bringing in another expert or get a second opinion?

    I'm reminded of a sewer scope that I watched a tech do. He called out for a complete replacement which he could do for $13K. I had watched the monitor and didn't see any of the problems he was noting. After he left, I gave the client the name of a guy that I trust and he found minor cracks that didn't need action and recommended cleaning every other year.

    Actually, now that I think of it, I have a few more of these stories.......which I won't bore you guys with.

    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    Good afternoon Lon,

    Yes in this case I did recommend a second opinion, bu the client chose to take the money and hire their own repair person.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    Ray, Lon, I am not familiar with a second opinion strategy.
    I can see the justification behind recommending a second opinion but...

    1: Where does this place you legally within the contract?
    2: If you are mistaken can you be held liable to absorb any costs incurred for being wrong.
    3: Can the vendor hold you liable?

    Questions are many but I will start of with.
    A: Do you put in place a waiver and have the purchaser it?
    C: or have this included in your home inspection agreements?

    Sorry to use this thread as a model but since it is here it seems like the proper example.

    Thanks in advance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    They should change P2P to W2W (Way 2 Wrong) as they are the fastest home inspectors in the east. Since the Clients I have met hire me after to find what they missed.
    Kevin. P2P?

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    In this case the purchasers agent recommended the WETT inspector. When I found out he was also a P2P I didn't like that fact because I have had negative experiences with P2P and bad feedback from clients.

    When I found out what had transpired I let my client know what I thought, and my opinion was that the WETT inspector was wet! How can you write something up as being damaged and recommend replacement for my client who paid for the inspection, then come back and be paid by the listing agent, and then write a report that everything is okay? It just doesn't wash. Inexperience, take the money and hope no one questions things? I don't know, but I am still scratching my head.

    I am just waiting for my client to move in, hire someone to replace the section only to find out the whole bloody chimney is no good and that this chimney is not manufactured anymore. If that should happen I will be the first to help my client seek damages from this chap should they decide to go after him.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    P2P advertises they inspect 1600 items. Really!

    I guess they are anticipating the new CSA standards!


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    Kevin, Ray...
    BIG THANKS FROM THIS INSPECTOR.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  21. #21

    Default Re: Immediate Assistance Required

    I wouldn't want to get into a pissing match over the P2P comments but I would have to say I was a franchisee for 10 years and have been independent for several years now.

    The training was top notch but addressed the ASHI SOP and so you probably could find many non P2P HIs who are better trained or more knowledgeable in certain areas. Their goal appeared to be to train people to perform an ASHI SOP inspection but go no further.

    As far as "fast," goes I was (and still am) fairly well blacklisted in the largest town in my area since I took/take too long. Agents wanted you in and out in an hour to an hour and a half. One agent claimed the inspection should take 20 minutes.

    My point is, I am sure there are some poor P2P inspectors out there but all those I ever met were conscientious and through. Coming from an electrical engineering, BSEE, back ground and having worked for 20 years or so as a construction project engineer (PMI) prior to buying the franchise I never faulted their training or technical support. My reasons for leaving were a combination of personal and business.

    Sorry that you may have run into one of the duds.


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