Flue pipe - InspectionNews

wayne soper · #1 (**permalink**) 04-21-2007, 05:28 AM

This metal flue pipe for the boiler below comes up inside the fireplace flue in the living room. What do you think. The photo is looking up from the front of the firebox. 200 + year old unit made of stone.

Jerry Peck · #2 (**permalink**) 04-21-2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayne soper

This metal flue pipe for the boiler below comes up inside the fireplace flue in the living room. What do you think. The photo is looking up from the front of the firebox. 200 + year old unit made of stone.

Wow, one of those old unlined fireplaces.

I bet Bob H. has some things to say about each, and some more to say about that combination.

Brian E Kelly · #3 (**permalink**) 04-21-2007, 10:03 AM

Solid fuel and fossil fuel vents shall not be ran in there same chimney. I am assuming that the wood fire place is still active. If it is not It should be sealed off so no one can use the wood fireplace. Depending as to what the boiler chimney material is it needs at least a 1" clearance from combustibles. And the creaso from the wood is considered a combustible material. The only way to fix this problem with little cost is to permanently seal off the wood fireplace so it is unable to be used.

John Arnold · #4 (**permalink**) 04-21-2007, 01:52 PM

Totally bogus, in my professional opinion.
I don't like to get bogged down too much in technical language.
Seriously, sealing off the fireplace isn't going to do it. Being a generalist, I would write this up as unsafe, hazardous and completely unacceptable and that qualified specialists need to make everything right. Or, un-bogus.

neal lewis · #5 (**permalink**) 04-21-2007, 02:54 PM

Brian,

I see fossil fuel and solid fuel run in the same chimney every single day. I think you mean the same chimney flue.

Bob Harper · #6 (**permalink**) 04-21-2007, 05:02 PM

Quck terminology:
Flue is the passageway(s) inside a chimney.

Flues shall be separated by a nominal 4" wythe wall. Ooops!, guess that sort slipped by the installer...
IF the fireplace was permanently blocked off AND LABELED not usable, you could count the firebox and smoke chamber if the rest of the Fp & chamber walls were intact with at least 4" solid masonry units and the top of the Fp flue was permanetly sealed as well. However, to block off the Fp flue top and bottom would require 4" solid masonry units to county--no plywood or sheetmetal.

Since this liner serves liquid or gaseous fuels, there is no requiremet to insulate it. Also, that portion of UL 1777 does not require a 1" air space btw liner and chimney walls nor a 1" airspace btw chimney and combustibles. Liners serving solid fuel may be listed at a 1" air space btw liner and flue tile/ chimney along with a 1" clearance btw chimney and combustibles ( e.g., Heat Fab) or, what we refer to as a 0/0 meaning 0 btw liner and chimney and 0 btw chimney and existing framing, which is more of a real world condition. Most liners have a 0.0 but the insulation required around them varies with their listings. There are NO listed liners for solid fuel without insulation. If you find a woodstove with a liner, it better be insulated.

If this liner in question is coated with creosote, it needs to be puilled, swept clean or replaced, sweep the heater flue of any creosote that migrated in there, then re-install the heater flue liner and seal off the Fp as above. This installation certainly should not stand as is. Also, that liner looks pretty big.

What is the combined input BTU rating on the boiler and any attached water heater? If the boiler is oil, the input rating in gallons per hour often written on the rating plate or even the upper left corner of the service tag would be meaningless without knowing the pump pressure. A nozzle marked 1.25 GPH delivers that at 100 psi, which is the industry standard starting or minimum pressure. However, more and more burners, esp. Riellos routinely are set at 140 psi or more up to a max of about 200 psi. No way of knowing unless our hero the oil tech noted it on a service tag. Then, you could look it up and see that 1.25 GPH you thought was delivering about 140,000 BTU/hr based on #2 heating oil is actually firing at ~165,000 BTU/hr. Gas boilers fire at pretty close to their stated input BTU rate unless our hero the tech changed the manifold pressure, which is the pressure going to the burners.

any more pics? Up top? At boiler?

wayne soper · #7 (**permalink**) 04-21-2007, 06:05 PM

OK, Thanks Bob, The house has one chimney with three flues. Three fireplaces one of which is sealed shut, Go Figure?
The Boiler alone is using the steel liner seen inside the stone chimney fire chamber. The steel vent can also be seen inside what would have been the bread oven way back when. So I have to assume that they ran a liner for the boiler into the sealed fireplace flue.
BUT, you cannot see the steel vent pipe at the top of the chimney.
So did they cut it short and say it's friday F it. no one will ever see it or what.
This is a minor defect at this property compared to others but I am interested in all of your thoughts, Thanks , wayne

wayne soper · #8 (**permalink**) 04-21-2007, 06:06 PM

OH yeah, we also have a wood stove venting into one of the flues.

Jerry Peck · #9 (**permalink**) 04-21-2007, 06:16 PM

That looks like a stainless steel liner in there, certainly not real old.

wayne soper · #10 (**permalink**) 04-21-2007, 06:19 PM

Yes stainless Jerry, I was abbreviating using steel. It's not the lkiner material I'm worried about it's the termination and the sharing thing that may be going on.

Bob Harper · #11 (**permalink**) 04-21-2007, 06:32 PM

The top looks possibly like a pumped cementitious liner. This could be a bastardized conglomeration of stainless and cast liners. Just get a Level II.

Woodstove requires a 2,100F listed liner. That means better not be that bare stainless liner.

On closer exam, it appears they did pumped liners to the smoke chamber and scabbed in some different stainless liners up into this mess. Notice one liner's corrugations are pronounced ridges (lightweight flex) while the other has flat corrugations( heavy flex)? Also, not those drawbands. Looks like someone used up some leftover liner scraps and maybe scabbed different brands together.

What a mess!