copper galvanized connection in attic - InspectionNews

Jerome W. Young · #1 (**permalink**) 07-25-2008, 07:53 AM

Any concerns with this type connection as far as compatability etc?

Jerry Peck · #2 (**permalink**) 07-25-2008, 08:01 AM

Jerome,

You need to use either a compatible fitting (brass) or a dielectric fitting between the two dissimilar metals.

Is that a gas line?

Also in that photo:

What is that vent/duct for? If for exhaust air only, no clearance requirement to combustible material. Same for that (what looks like) NM cable, no clearance requirement for exhaust air only.

If that is a gas line, then the vent/duct is likely a vent, in which case it needs 1", 2" or 3" clearance to combustible material, including the wood truss and the NM cable. Also needs clearance to the insulation, requires an insulation shield and a fire stop, plus proper strapping. Also, if a gas line, that copper may not be allowed, check with the gas company.

Then there is that a/c duct which is not supported properly.

Jerome W. Young · #3 (**permalink**) 07-25-2008, 08:06 AM

I believe it is the LP gas line to the range and the duct is for the exhaust vent over the range

Jerry Peck · #4 (**permalink**) 07-25-2008, 08:23 AM

In that case, no clearance issues, just the concern of the gas and copper.

The only way to know is to call the gas company and ask if copper is allowed to be used with their gas.

If "the gas contains more than an average of 0.3 grains (0.0194 g) of hydrogen sulfide for 100 standard cubic feet (2.83 m3) of gas (a trace as determined under ASTM D 2385 or ASTM D 2420)." - from the old Standard Gas Code - SBCCI - , then the copper would need to be:
- G306.2 METALLIC TUBING. Copper tubing shall be of standard Type K or L complying with ASTM B 88 or ASTM B 280. Steel tubing shall comply with ASTM A 539 or ASTM A 254. Corrugated stainless steel tubing systems shall be tested, listed, and installed in accordance with ANSI/AGA LC-1. Tin-lined copper tubing shall be used when "the gas contains ... "(see above).

The following is from the 2004 Florida Building Code:
- G2414.5.2 (403.5.2) Copper tubing.
- - Copper tubing shall comply with standard Type K or L of ASTM B 88 or ASTM B 280.
- - Copper and brass tubing shall not be used if the gas contains more than an average of 0.3 grains of hydrogen sulfide per 100 standard cubic feet of gas (0.7 milligrams per 100 liters).

Ted Menelly · #5 (**permalink**) 07-25-2008, 09:25 AM

I will have to check , but I do not think I am mistaken, galvy cannot be used for gas in the home as well. Copper to galvy is definitely out of the question.

A bit controversial but I write copper up in a home (anywhere, attic, crawl inside) I tell my clients that I would rather not take the chance that the gas being pumped through that copper will be maintained at the minimum sulfides.

I doubt that the gas company will give you a guarantee in writing either. Here in the great state of Texas I have written it up when ever I find galvy or copper in a home and no one has ever questioned it.

Of course the great state of Florida may be different. I can not remember the specifics. I know, it was only 4 years ago or maybe 1200 or so inspections ago.

Jim Luttrall · #6 (**permalink**) 07-25-2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

LP gas line

Copper is good for LP around here, never heard of an issue.

Ted Menelly · #7 (**permalink**) 07-25-2008, 10:28 AM

Hmm, he did say LP didn't he. I guess I better stop skimming over the posts. Ah, I'll still write it up. Why, because I have not inspected a home with LP since I came to Texas. Pretty unusual but true. Oh shoot, even if I do run into LP I will probably still write it up.

Just doing the hit and run today like yesterday. In between inspections.

A quick edit.

I am sitting here doing my report from the first inspection smelling like a rat form my first rat infested inspection. I was told it was not a crawl. When I pulled down the road I new it would be. The Realtors uncle met me with a check in hand. If he did not I would have pulled away. The house turned from a 41 year old slab to a 1941 pier and beam. I have another hundred coming for compensation. I guess I won't be doing referrals from this realtor anymore. He already showed his colors.

Jack Feldmann · #8 (**permalink**) 07-25-2008, 02:47 PM

He may not have known the house was a crawlspace - I would probably cut him some slack.

I kind of take those situations with a grain of salt. There are many times I pull up expecting a crawl, and it's a slab. I view it as I win some, and I lose some.

To get bent out of shape and lose future business because you had to crawl a little, just strikes me as biting off your nose to spite your face. If it happened all the time, it's another thing. But, everyone is entitled to make at least one mistake.

Kind of like your spelling.

Ted Menelly · #9 (**permalink**) 07-25-2008, 03:21 PM

Bent out of shape? No just calling it like it is. I talked to him three times trying to schedule this. He has been to the house three times during the time I was trying to schedule. He finally sent me an email last night with the same info. Again, not 41 years old but built in 1941. Not a slab but a serious rat infested crawl. I highlight everything in red for concerns. I just emailed the report off a few minutes ago. It was all red and I did not even get into being Mr nit picky. Just pulling up to this property or just approaching this property you can see a handful of serious concerns. Get out of the vehicle and still 25 feet away all you smell is rats.

Sorry I did not explain it better but seriously. He new exactly what he was selling me for an inspection. He has been back there for three days in a row. He was probably hoping that I did cut him some slack and you win some you lose some and just kept it at the price sold on.

If the situation was different and I knew it was an oops it would be a totally different story especially if it was a long time referring party.
I know by some of my posts I may seem a little on the out of control side but I am actually a very down to earth , reasonable, sensible, logical, smiling, forgiving son of a --------, oooooopps, nice guy.

Just a quick edit. I always know the exact age and type of foundation before I go to any house and have never had any ooops. If they are unsure I call the listing agent for the MLS or just get the info from them. Even if the client does know I always get the info from the agents, including occupied or not.

Anyway I guess you would have to have been privy to the conversations I had with this agent to understand the situation.

See, Look

I can smile

Jerry Peck · #10 (**permalink**) 07-26-2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

I will have to check , but I do not think I am mistaken, galvy cannot be used for gas in the home as well.

Galvanized is allowed, we had this discussion several times in recent months.

Ted Menelly · #11 (**permalink**) 07-26-2008, 08:04 PM

Thanks Jerry

About the galvy for natural gas. I guess I did not pay attention or have not been on here long enough for the past threads and post.

I noticed your post around mid day and had a boring day after my inspection and did a lot of off an on checking about natural gas and galvy. I was not counting but for the tremendous amount of searches I did I found about a 50 50 split on the matter. To me it is like the radon thing with granite. Some reports say stop, don't put that granite in your home, others say , not really a problem.

The older cheaper (poorly coated) galvy seams to have been the concern and the newer methods, well, I guess it is suppose to be better. Some states and municipalities allow it , other states and or municipalities don't.

It seams to me that one should go by the municipality or state or write it and give reasons why.

Thanks again Jerry. One can never do enough reading and at least your response to my post made me do at least that.

We keep talking of standards being the minimum. When I write something in a report I explain my reasoning.

Jerry Peck · #12 (**permalink**) 07-27-2008, 12:56 PM

Ted,

If you Texas boys started finding the sediment traps you should be finding, having galvanized pipe would not matter - that's just one source of debris the sediment traps (properly designed and installed) would accumulate and let settle out of the gas stream.

Now, if there are AHJ which do not enforce sediment traps as they should, not allowing galvanized will help reduce the risk of not requiring sediment traps.

Ted Menelly · #13 (**permalink**) 07-27-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Ted,

If you Texas boys started finding the sediment traps you should be finding, having galvanized pipe would not matter - that's just one source of debris the sediment traps (properly designed and installed) would accumulate and let settle out of the gas stream.

Now, if there are AHJ which do not enforce sediment traps as they should, not allowing galvanized will help reduce the risk of not requiring sediment traps.

Thank you Jerry

Once again you read the meaning of why I write certain things up. When it appears to me that there are particular reasons to write things up for my clients, I do.

A lot of folks won't write things up because it is code, or the AHJ doesn't find it necessary, or, or, or.

As I have stated in the past. Codes are the minimum. We build off of them.

Gas with a certain amount of sulfides that I can not guarantee for the use of gas pipe.

Galvy zinc flakes "possibly" messing up the works.

I write these things up. After all, I am representing my client by giving my best opinion of the new home they are about to buy.

If there is open controversy about inspection items in their new home "I write them up and explain my reasoning".

Thanks again Jerry for the thought behind your response.

Jerry Peck · #14 (**permalink**) 07-27-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

I write these things up. After all, I am representing my client by giving my best opinion of the new home they are about to buy.

Ted,

Glad to hear that you do write up missing sediment traps, regardless of whether or not the AHJ enforces that code requirement or not.

Darrel Hood · #15 (**permalink**) 07-28-2008, 06:05 AM

I must confess my ignorance regarding gas piping. Why is black anodized pipe better than galvanized? I understand that galvanized deteriorates from the inside out and will contribute to flakes etc. in the gas. Why will black anodized not do the same thing?

Darrel