Thread: Joe the Plumber

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

Obama = Electric Harley=Sucks

Ron

Maybe Harley can include a button that makes the Harley Sound? That way you can have the electric Harley and the sound.

There's your answer so you can go vote for Obama now.

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

2 Drive my S class M.B. Need Gas Its a total pig no lip stick...

I vote for more Drilling need the gas.

1. Drive my XJS Jag. Need Gas. Need PREMIUM gas. Makes S class M.B. look like it sips gas.

I vote NO DRILLING.

Ain't gonna matter anyway. No gas from new drilling for a decade of so.

By then, no need gas, will have "flux capacitor" installed by then - don't know where I'll get the 1.21 gigawatts of electrical power to operate it, though.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

1. Drive my XJS Jag. Need Gas. Need PREMIUM gas. Makes S class M.B. look like it sips gas.

I vote NO DRILLING.

Ain't gonna matter anyway. No gas from new drilling for a decade of so.

By then, no need gas, will have "flux capacitor" installed by then - don't know where I'll get the 1.21 gigawatts of electrical power to operate it, though.

I watched the science channel and the rig managers and the workers all said 2 years max from set up to new supply for any rig off shore. I guess I cannot argue with the actual workers and managers. 2 years not 10

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

No gas from new drilling for a decade of so.

By then, no need gas, will have "flux capacitor" installed by then - don't know where I'll get the 1.21 gigawatts of electrical power to operate it, though.

.
Last One Came on line 1977. ( maybe now we can build again.)
* Photo was taken in FRANCE !
.

New rules for all. form the masters that be.

No drilling.
no nukes.
no keep your money.
no gold soon to come.
no gas.
no no no no no no.

JUST NO...

Best

Ron

Ron,

You'll still get that check from the gov't though if you don't work to hard.

rick

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

Make me mad they should not get any food eather...

Them dang Republicans just get to much. They should go back to eating dog food them dand Republicans...

I think Nancy Pelosi is a Republican just look at that pearl necklaces


Democrat or Republican
That pearl necklaces cost some bucks. that could pay alot of peoples rent.

She is so mean...

I just don't believe in donating money to somebody so they can go buy their little baby almost a $1000 outfit. Same with food, I'm not expecting anyone to eat dog food but I also don't expect anyone to spend $20 on a hot dog where the money came from a donation.

They talk about not be reckless with the American people's money but yet they spend that much of the donations on clothes that are going to be worn for a short time.

McCain blew his $250M in donations and was almost broke. He went back to his old ways and came back to win the nomination with little money. I guess he didn't learn from that.

I thought McCain & Palin was a Maverick (Not doing what the good old boys do). Seems like McCain doesn't learn and Palin is a puppet.

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

Ron,

You'll still get that check from the gov't though if you don't work to hard .

rick

.
$ CHECK $ .
.
I'm going to get 2 Mail Boxes. ( will He give me a FREE Mail Box as well ???
.

Saw Madam Speaker about a month ago ( talking point was "Energy Independence' ) *before gas prices started to fall & credit crisis.

Quote " We need to go from Fossil Fuel to Natural Gas"

She had recently Invested in a Natural Gas Company. (100k ) was asked about significant investment and rebuttal was the amount of money was not significant.

??? Get Away from Fossil Fuel to Natural Gas ( wonder what Madam Speaker thinks Natural Gas is??? )
.

Ya your right Rick I plum forgt about that.

Quote: Kevin. Maybe Harley can include a button that makes the Harley Sound? That way you can have the electric Harley and the sound.Quote:


This is part of a big problem. Kevin if you ever got on a Harley never mind the new ones. the old school bikes. they were a fix mount Vtwin the bike shook all the time, they had a carb. that for the most part ran rich. they always put out a little blue smoke mix with the extra gas...

when you gave it the gas and open the cluch you new you were on a bike. open the gas some more and kick it in 2 gear hit the gas the bike takes off your hands are holding on your finger grab the cluch kick into 3 pop the cluch your up around 60mph grab the cluch kick into 4gear let it rool out. you face is in the wind you are on a Harley. Thats what it all about.

I say out of my cold dead hands will you get my bike...

Only a Democrat would try to take the AMERICAN Harley off the AMERICAN Roads...

Kevin I bet you have a pink bike with button that makes the Harley Sound...


Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

Ya your right Rick I plum forgt about that.

Quote: Kevin. Maybe Harley can include a button that makes the Harley Sound? That way you can have the electric Harley and the sound.Quote:


This is part of a big problem. Kevin if you ever got on a Harley never mind the new ones. the old school bikes. they were a fix mount Vtwin the bike shook all the time, they had a carb. that for the most part ran rich. they always put out a little blue smoke mix with the extra gas...

when you gave it the gas and open the cluch you new you were on a bike. open the gas some more and kick it in 2 gear hit the gas the bike takes off your hands are holding on your finger grab the cluch kick into 3 pop the cluch your up around 60mph grab the cluch kick into 4gear let it rool out. you face is in the wind you are on a Harley. Thats what it all about.

I say out of my cold dead hands will you get my bike...

Only a Democrat would try to take the AMERICAN Harley off the AMERICAN Roads...

Kevin I bet you have a pink bike with button that makes the Harley Sound...


Best

Ron

lol. I thought you were really going to jump on me for making that comment.

I always like to read up on these after they have had a while for people to post wild outlandish claims. And, ahem, this one is no different. It is always interesting to see all the comments about how I (( as a member of a particular party, which one doesn't matter)) am going to ruin the country, destroy our lives, take your guns, abuse your rights, steal from the poor, distribute money from the wealthy, destroy our economics, and on, and on. It seems that there is never an shortage of abundant rhetoric, innuendo, false statements, and downright hate from both sides.
Good to see our industry is right in there with the rest of em! Sometimes I wonder, after having read the news from such reliable sources like CNN, Newsmax, Fox, MSN, and others just how our country ever survived as long as we have. None of this is new, been going on long as we have been a country and yet,,,,,yet,,,,,,we still belong to a proud Republic alive and well.
Guess I will have to tune in in four more years to see a country that has been destroyed by whom ever wins this election. And you know, I think this is just how the residents of our country felt back in say, 1800 too.
Maybe we will live after all, you think?

oh, almost forgot, They are actually going to begin taking Harley's? Wow, that's a new one. I want to see that on the news when it happens. Should be interesting.

This is just a teeny tin bit different Mike. This is world wide and serious. This is not just a localized US of A concerns. Yeah, I would say just a little different.

Why anyone would want to take the office right now is beside me. Well, I guess it really does not make a difference. Four years as President and no matter how well or how bad you do you collect hundreds of thousands a year with full complete benefits. Gee, not a bad gig. 4 years and retire for life. For that matter , four years in Congress

Originally Posted by Michael Greenwalt

I always like to read up on these after they have had a while for people to post wild outlandish claims. And, ahem, this one is no different. It is always interesting to see all the comments about how I (( as a member of a particular party, which one doesn't matter)) am going to ruin the country, destroy our lives, take your guns, abuse your rights, steal from the poor, distribute money from the wealthy, destroy our economics, and on, and on. It seems that there is never an shortage of abundant rhetoric, innuendo, false statements, and downright hate from both sides.
Good to see our industry is right in there with the rest of em! Sometimes I wonder, after having read the news from such reliable sources like CNN, Newsmax, Fox, MSN, and others just how our country ever survived as long as we have. None of this is new, been going on long as we have been a country and yet,,,,,yet,,,,,,we still belong to a proud Republic alive and well.
Guess I will have to tune in in four more years to see a country that has been destroyed by whom ever wins this election. And you know, I think this is just how the residents of our country felt back in say, 1800 too.
Maybe we will live after all, you think?

oh, almost forgot, They are actually going to begin taking Harley's? Wow, that's a new one. I want to see that on the news when it happens. Should be interesting.

Michael. My post about the Harley went over your head. They just want to convert the Harley to a pice of crap with an Electric Motor.
or wind power. or?

Thats not a Harley any more...

You need gas and oil for a Harley to run. not an extention cord.

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

Michael. My post about the Harley went over your head. They just want to convert the Harley to a pice of crap with an Electric Motor.
or wind power. or?

Thats not a Harley any more...

You need gas and oil for a Harley to run. not an extention cord.

Best

Ron

No one is going to take your gas powered Harley away.
Even if they did what do you want your Harley or endless wars for middle east oil? Now being the religious man you claim to be the choice should be easy.

Originally Posted by Michael Greenwalt

oh, almost forgot, They are actually going to begin taking Harley's? Wow, that's a new one. I want to see that on the news when it happens. Should be interesting.

Wait no more...
The city of Myrtle Beach has for all intents and purposes ended its Spring Harley Rally by passing 15 new ordinances aimed at ending said rally.
Amongst the ordinances are:
A mandatory helmet law (the state only requires helmets on riders under 21 years old)
A limit of 89 decibels measured at the exhaust. (my lawn mower wont pass that one)
Eye protection while riding
Makes property owners (hotels) responsible for any disturbances created by their guests.
etc. etc.
City of Myrtle Beach - New Ordinances

Private citizens and businesses alike have filed federal lawsuits against the city. Myrtle Beach bike rally lawsuits to go to court - Local - Myrtle Beach Online

There goes our tax money.

Although they wont admit it, this is all about stopping the Memorial day black biker week or should I say "crimefest"

YouTube - BLACK BIKE WEEKEND BBW 2008 MYRTLE BEACH

make sure you also watch the rest of the BBW videos.
And welcome to our family friendly beach.

Yup. The family friendly beach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't imagine what it must be like to live there during that week.
I guess there must be some businesses that welcome all the bikers. There is probably a lot of money rolling into town too, but at what cost?

I had a Realtor open a door for me this morning. Without prompting, she proceeded to tell me that...
1. Obama is a muslim, and was known to pal around with Osama.
2. Bill Clinton was the cause of 911, because he had Osama in custody, but let him go.
3. The Dem V.P. Lieberman was a crackpot.
4. That Sara Palin has more experience than ANY OTHER woman in politics.
5. Ted Kennedy had just killed woman with his car.

The saving grace was she ONLY opened the door. She left as soon as the lockbox dropped.

My client wasn't there today, so I didn't have to extend this conversation any further.

I just can't figure out why she thought I was interested in her views, or that I might even share them, or why she felt compelled to express them. I just made the mistake of saying Good Morning. Those were the only two words I got out, and the only two I spoke to her. It was surreal.

Doh, yes I did miss that, jeez somedays are umm, difficult for me.

Yo! Dude!

Don't forget about Bike Week in Daytona, which actually lasts about 2-1/2 weeks. Brings about 400,000 people for Bike Week.

Not satisfied with Bike Week in Feb., the added Biketoberfest in Oct., which just finished. This years crowds were down slightly from last year's crowds, only about 200,000 people they say.

Compared to Bike Week, Biketoberfest is the 'Wine and Dine' crowd, the 'Goldwingers' versus the 'Harleys' at Bike Week.

Not to worry, though, they bring enough dough to line the local merchants pockets to make it all worthwhile.

Besides, compared to the Daytona 500, the Firecracker 400, the 24 Hours at Daytona, the Truck Races, and all the other races, Bike Week and Biketoberfest as just marshmallows on a stick.

And where we live is just outside the areas they gather, so they are really no problemo ... except we went to our little diner we go to for breakfast on Sunday morning and ... there must have been about 100 bikes parked there ... we drove on by, to busy. No problem, those times are when those places make their money, so they can stay open the rest of the year.

There was a piece in the paper this morning about a Bristol, TN man that was convicted for killing a guy during Bikertoberfest last year. Seems he was one of a group that beat this guy to death in a motel room while robbing him. Nice crowd.

After watching this video clip, I think my choice is made clear.
YouTube - Unbelievable McCain Vs. Obama Dance-Off

Jack
I live in a condo that also has the brother of that agent you met as a resident. He cornered me one day in the parking basement and began his spiel about Obama being a known terrorist, and bla, bla, bla. I looked at him and said “did you know that we have two residents living in our building who are in daily email contact with Osama? The look on his face made my day. I’ve no time for such nonsense so that night is attached a Vote for Obama ad on the front bumper of his car and he drove around with it on for a week before finally discovering it and ripping it off. Everybody in the building had a good laugh, even the Republicans who think he is a nut case.

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

There was a piece in the paper this morning about a Bristol, TN man that was convicted for killing a guy during Bikertoberfest last year. Seems he was one of a group that beat this guy to death in a motel room while robbing him. Nice crowd.

Yeah, interesting story, if you can't trust another druggie from your own home town, who can you trust?

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but I have not heard Obama say that he wants Harley's to have electric motors. Ron said it. So Ron must want an electric motor, or he is just trying to stir up stuff by saying that Obama said something.

Oh yeah, he's a terrorist too - I know for a fact, because a well known Realtor told me so just the other day. "You bethcha!!!!"

Sorry guys if i can't find the words or if they just come out wrong sometimes. I do hope the best for all on this board

No I don't want an electric Harley. Jack.

I was trying to make a point that Mr Obama is just not going to open our land for Drilling for oil. thats a fact. the Dems say they will but they won't and thats a fact. we need the stuff and fast. and its only a few years out if we get started now. Not 10 Years like some say.
but If Obama is in we will not Drill one hole any place in the USA.
Thats my point guys.

almost everything we use, buy, have, drive, work with, and just about every part of out lives has some % of oil in it.

I had open heart bypass 6 years back and just about everything was plastic that was part of that time in the hospital for me.

I think Obama is a good guy for the most part just on the other side of so many things form my way of life.

Oil is what will Get my vote the year. with out the stuff we are sunk.

Best to all.

Ron

Nothing like a Harley driving by and seeing my daughter cover her ears or the Boom, Boom, Boom sound coming from 5 cars back.

When it comes to Joe the so called plumber. Who makes over $250K a year here and declares it all on their Federal Taxes. If I made more than $200k, I would put as much in tax free investment as I could (such as a SEP). Anyone that doesn't set something up and pays taxes on over $250K should pay more taxes for being stupid.

From the information I was able to look up on the computer, most home inspectors in the US makes between $30k to $50k after all deductions. The most I seen was $100K after deductions. That is a long way from $250k.

My grand daughters love to go for rides on my Harley.

Faster Granpa Faster...

Best

Ron

I envy you Ron. I raced dirt by for about 10 years in my younger life and there lies the problem with me getting on a street bike. Go faster Ted go faster.

I just cannot get on the things and get the rpm up fast enough. Before I know it I am passing cars on one wheel. Can't get enough of that power. Same thing with cars. I would love to own an old classic muscle car or one of the new Challengers with well over 400 horse. I just can't see myself driving very long without some blue lights behind me.

Yep its like looking down at the redline on the tach.
11K... on a street bike.

Something about that.

My Harley more of a cruser but it will get up and go... 85 is a good speed to cruse at... wind in your face... your are alive at that speed. then you say to your self... slow down live a little longer you have things to do...


Best

Ron

A little political humor here. Don't anyone get upset I just received it in an email and copied and pasted it.

Notice to All Employees
As of November 5, 2008, when President Obama is officially elected into office, our company will instill a few new policies which are in keeping with his new, inspiring issues of change and fairness:
1. All salespeople will be pooling their sales and bonuses into a common pool that will be divided equally between all of you. This will serve to give those of you who are underachieving a “fair shake.”
2. All low level workers will be pooling their wages, including overtime, into a common pool, dividing it equally amongst yourselves. This will help those who are “too busy for overtime” to reap the rewards from those who have more spare time and can work extra hours.
3. All top management will now be referred to as “the government.” We will not participate in this “pooling” experience because the law doesn't apply to us.
4. The “government” will give eloquent speeches to all employees every week, encouraging it's workers to continue to work hard “for the good of all.”
5. The employees will be thrilled with these new policies because it's “good to spread the wealth.” Those of you who have underachieved will finally get an opportunity; those of you who have worked hard and had success will feel more “patriotic.”
6. The last few people who were hired should clean out their desks. Don't feel bad, though, because President Obama will give you free healthcare, free handouts, free oil for heating your home, free food stamps, and he'll let you stay in your home for as long as you want even if you can't pay your mortgage. If you appeal directly to our democratic congress, you might even get a free flat screen TV and a coupon for free haircuts (shouldn't all Americans be entitled to nice looking hair?) !!!

In a past life (early 70's) I used to race Formula Karts (not sure what they are called now). At the time I had a 250 Suzuki/5 speed running nitro methane probably putting out well over 40HP on a kart that weighed 280# wet, with me on it.

Well over 100 mph with your butt less than 2" from the ground in a reclined driving position. We used to race on road courses like Riverside Raceway and Willow Springs in So CA. Races were typically 100 mile enduros.

Had a small block Chevy that ran low 11's. Of course by today's standards, that's almost like some production cars.

Ah, the smell of nitro in the morning!!!!!!

COPIED

I would suggest that you all read this, it makes so much sense. It speaks to all of the differences between Dem and Reps. I am sorry about the length. It has many references that support the facts herein.
F Y I -- Slightly political, mostly just common sense.

I was surprised by some of this info - maybe you will be too!
This email comes in three parts:

Part 1

Remember the election in 2006?
Thought you might like to read the following:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2-1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $ 4.00 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate
(stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!
Remember it's Congress that makes law, not the President. He has to work
with what's handed to him.

Part 2

Taxes... Whether Democrat or Republican, you will find these statistics
enlightening and amazing: The numbers are off but Bush is still lower

(http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html)
Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008
Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $38,750 &nbs p; Married making 125K - tax $31,250

Democratic candidates will return to the higher tax rates.
It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think
Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever.
If Obama is elected, he will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion
of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen.
This is like the movie "The Sting" with Paul Newman; you scam somebody
out of some money and they don't even know what happened.

PART 3

You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:
Boy am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the
Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. I now find that to be
RIDICULOUS.

I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again
until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading
them. I have included URL's for verification of all the following facts.

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens
each year by state governments. Verify at: _http://tinyurl.com/zob77_
(http://tinyurl.com/zob77)

2. $2.2 Billion a year is spent on food assistance programs such
as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: _http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html_
(http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html)

3. $2.5 Billion a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: _http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html_
(http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html)

4. $12 Billion a year is spent on primary and secondary school
education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of
English!
Verify at: _http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html_
(http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html)

5. $17 Billion a year is spent for education for the American-born
children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at: _http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html_
(http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html)

6. $3 Million a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: _http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html_
(http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html)

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: _http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html_
(http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html)

8. $90 Billion a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare &
social services by the American taxpayers. Verify at:
_http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html_
(http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html)

9. $200 Billion a year in suppressed American wages are caused by
the illegal aliens. Verify at:
_http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html_
(http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html)

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two
and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular their
children are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US.
Verify at: _http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html_
(http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html)

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that
crossed our Southern Border, also as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from
Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin
and marijuana and, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
Verify at: Homeland Security Report: _http://tinyurl.com/t9sht_
(http://tinyurl.com/t9sht)

12. The National Policy Institute, estimated that the total cost of mass
deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of
between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.
Verify at: _http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf_
(http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf)

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to
their countries of origin. Verify at:_http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm_
(http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm)

14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes
Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States .'
Verify at: _http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml_
(http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml)

The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!!

Why are we THAT stupid?

Now you want to vote for Obama for him to add more give aways!

YouTube - Obama Bombshell Redistribution of Wealth Audio Uncovered

WorldWatch - October 5, 2008 - Would the Last Honest Reporter Please Turn On the Lights? - The Ornery American

Mike

Yet there is a good chance that we will have a Democratic president this time and keep the Democratic Congress. If this happens (which is likely in Congress), that tells me a lot about people's opinion about Republicans.

It also doesn't help Republicans when people from McCain's party is calling Palin a Diva and people from the Palin part is upset with McCain's group for doing such a poor job showing Palin off and not allowing her to be herself.

I wish McCain won the presidency 8 years ago since he was the best qualified at the time, but the majority of Republican's screwed up and look what we got. McCain is a completely different person doing things completely different this time around and he has screwed up soo bad.

McCain is not a true Republican and doesn't represent what the Republicans truly believe in. Between the Democrats that are going to resist McCain and the Republican that laughing at the Maverick thing behind McCain's back, do you really think McCain can deal with these people? I personally don't think so.

Bush got elected twice and look where he is now (not many like what he has done). There is the mistake and I hope the American people don't make another mistake this time around.

So let me get this straight Mike, you really want us to believe that global warming, hurricanes, the housing crisis, 9-11, $4 gas were NOT caused by the Republicans or Bush?
I just cannot accept that, the entire liberal media takes the opposing position

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

So let me get this straight Mike, you really want us to believe that global warming, hurricanes, the housing crisis, 9-11, $4 gas were NOT caused by the Republicans or Bush?
I just cannot accept that, the entire liberal media takes the opposing position

Thats good Jim. I like that. Had to do a little thinking on it but it was good

I guess Theodore Roosevelt was a socialst because he cared about inequity and social upheaval in our country. Last paragraph says it all about the fear campaign.

McCain's Hero: More Socialist Than Obama!McCain can call Obama a socialist or he can call Teddy Roosevelt his hero. He can't do both.
By Timothy NoahPosted Thursday, Oct. 23, 2008, at 2:11 PM ET

Imagine that instead of telling Joe "the Plumber" Wurzelbacher that "when you spread the wealth around it's good for everybody," Barack Obama had said the following
We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used. It is not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community. … The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size, acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means. Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and … a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate.

The New York Post's Page One would blare: "OBAMA: I'LL SEIZE 'SWOLLEN FORTUNES'!" Bill Kristol would demand to know, in his New York Times column, what godly powers enabled Obama to discern precisely whose wealth—David Geffen's? George Soros'?—would "benefit the community." On Fox News, Bill O'Reilly would start to say something, then sputter, turn purple, and keel over backward in a grand mal seizure.
John McCain, meanwhile, would have to stop saying that Teddy Roosevelt is his hero, because the passage quoted above is from T.R.'s "New Nationalism" speech of 1910. Either that, or McCain would have to quit calling Barack Obama a socialist.

T.R. justified progressive taxation straightforwardly as a matter of equality. In his 1907 State of the Union address, Roosevelt said:
Our aim is to recognize what Lincoln pointed out: The fact that there are some respects in which men are obviously not equal; but also to insist that there should be an equality of self-respect and of mutual respect, an equality of rights before the law, and at least an approximate equality in the conditions under which each man obtains the chance to show the stuff that is in him when compared to his fellows [italics mine].
Obama is constrained by a very different political climate to justify his sole proposed tax hike—on incomes above $250,000—by stating its benefit to commerce. Here's his "spread the wealth around" comment in context (for a more complete transcription, click here):

I do believe that for folks like me, who have worked hard but, frankly, have also been lucky, I don't mind paying just a little bit more than the waitress who I just met over there who, things are slow, and she can barely make the rent. My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's going to be good for everybody. If you've got a plumbing business, you're going to be better off if you've got a whole bunch of customers who can afford to hire you. And right now, everybody's so pinched that business is bad for everybody. And I think when you spread the wealth around it's good for everybody.

In a radio address on Oct. 18, McCain said that to the "straight-talking," "plainspoken" Wurzelbacher, words like "spread the wealth around"
sounded a lot like socialism. And a lot of Americans are thinking along those same lines. … At least in Europe, the Socialist leaders who so admire my opponent are up front about their objectives. They use real numbers and honest language. And we should demand equal candor from Senator Obama.
In an Oct. 22 speech in Manchester, N.H., McCain expostulated further:
Joe and guys like him will earn the wealth. Barack and politicians like him will spread it. Joe didn't really like that idea, and neither did a lot of other folks who believe that their earnings are their own. After all, before government can redistribute wealth, it has to confiscate wealth from those who earned it. And whatever the right word is for that way of thinking, the redistribution of wealth is the last thing America needs right now. In these tough economic times, we don't need government "spreading the wealth"—we need policies that create wealth and spread opportunity.

When T.R. spoke of "swollen fortunes" and "malefactors of great wealth," socialism was a genuine force in American politics, perceived by many to pose a serious threat to the social order. When T.R. first called for a "graduated income tax" in his 1907 State of the Union, he was proposing a measure that the Supreme Court had ruled unconstitutional. Indeed, the federal income tax struck down by the Court wasn't even "graduated," or progressive; it was a flat-rate tax.

Today, McCain demagogically attacks Obama's purported "socialism" knowing that socialism is a dead letter in the United States. He feigns shock at progressive taxation ("confiscate wealth") nearly a century after the states ratified the 16th Amendment, enabling Congress to enact a progressive income tax, and nearly a decade after he himself scolded a town-hall questioner on MSNBC's Hardball who cried "socialism" about the rich having to pay a greater percentage of their income in taxes. "Here's what I really believe," McCain said. "When you are—reach a certain level of comfort, there's nothing wrong with paying somewhat more."

In his book The Great Tax Wars, Steven Weisman, formerly of the New York Times, writes that T.R.'s previous experience as police commissioner of New York City made him worry "about anarchy arising from gross economic inequality." Today, the income gap between the top 0.01 percent of families in the United States and the bottom 90 percent is greater than it was in T.R.'s day. The last time it was anywhere near so great was in 1929. The top marginal income-tax rate, meanwhile, is near its historic low in the late 1920s. Those of you seeking a cause to the current financial meltdown may draw your own conclusions. (For more on taxes and historic patterns of inequality in the United States, click here.)
T.R., of course, was no socialist. Indeed, his purpose was largely to prevent socialists from coming to power. But the trust buster got called a socialist a lot more often than Obama ever will. He writes in his autobiography:
Because of things I have done on behalf of justice to the workingman, I have often been called a Socialist. Usually I have not taken the trouble even to notice the epithet. … Moreover, I know that many American Socialists are high-minded and honorable citizens, who in reality are merely radical social reformers. They are opposed to the brutalities and industrial injustices which we see everywhere about us.

T.R. then goes on to outline his strong differences "with the Marxian Socialists" and their belief in class warfare and the inevitable demise of capitalism. Later, he returns to his earlier theme:

Many of the men who call themselves socialists today are in reality merely radical social reformers, with whom on many points good citizens can and ought to work in hearty general agreement, and whom in many practical matters of government good citizens can well afford to follow.
There were, however, limits to T.R.'s tolerance. "I have always maintained," he concluded, "that our worst revolutionaries today are those reactionaries who do not see and will not admit there is any need for change."

No doubt that we have socialist programs within the United States in many different forms which we have decided for better or worse is something we want.
The big sticking point in Obama's plan seems to be his plan of taking wealth from top earners and giving checks to lower income people, approximately 40% of whom pay NO taxes presently.
The only way to cut the taxes of the person who pays no tax is to give them a check, not taking less from them as in a progressive tax system, but welfare checks for those who already paid no taxes.

This is the government confiscating wealth from one group and giving it to another. This is by definition Socialism.

The question then, is not do we want socialism, but do we want to grow socialism to the point Obama envisions. While having the government take care of us from cradle to grave is the dream of some, it is a very expensive proposition which can only be financed by extreme taxes and the wealthy, contrary to popular belief, are not a limitless supply to finance the socialist programs. When you cannot finance the social programs that exist currently without a massive tax increase, why would we want to increase social programs.

Follow the money, are some in the campaigns buying votes with promises?

Originally Posted by Kevin Luce

If somebody on this chat would go up to Obama or McCain and tell one of them that they are a home inspector in a licensed state and they plan on buying a home inspection company that makes $250K a year and we found out that it was a complete lie, I think most of us would call him out. Then if he really did do home inspections without being licensed in that licensed state, many of us would be on his case if not doing more.

Poor Joe? I don't think so.

Kevin, where do you get your information?
I saw an interview with Joe, and according to him, he has worked under the license of his boss (who owns the company) for something like 14 years and is studying to take his master plumber's license. He wants to buy the business.
What is wrong with that?
Why all this negative attack on someone with ambition to become a small business owner. Is it wrong to have dreams?

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

Why all this negative attack on someone with ambition to become a small business owner. Is it wrong to have dreams?

Simple. They don't want to talk about the question Joe asked or the answer Obama gave.

They know they can't sell Obama's socialist plans so they attack the poor plumber instead of Obama's policy.

They understand that if they where in the position of the person making more than 250K they wouldn't want to feel the hand of someone else in their pocket either while the government pointed a gun at them to make the thief feel safe.

Dramatic yes. But most will be able to see the truth of it.

Frankly both candidates believe in a progressive tax system so it's a matter of degree as to who takes us down the road leading to Serfdom the fastest.

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

Kevin, where do you get your information?
I saw an interview with Joe, and according to him, he has worked under the license of his boss (who owns the company) for something like 14 years and is studying to take his master plumber's license. He wants to buy the business.
What is wrong with that?
Why all this negative attack on someone with ambition to become a small business owner. Is it wrong to have dreams?

I see no ambition in Joe. He has worked there for 6 years and hasn't completed anything.

Here is one of many articles that inform us that he is not a plumber, that he has no license or training that is required to be a plumber and that he's been there for 6 years. There is a lot more information in this article but it clearly shows that he lied about his situation.

Article published Thursday, October 16, 2008
SPRINGFIELD TOWNSHIP

"Joe the Plumber" isn’t a plumber — at least not a licensed one, or a registered one.

A check of state and local licensing agencies in Ohio and Michigan shows no plumbing licenses under Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher’s name, or even misspellings of his name.

According to Lucas County Building Inspection records, A. W. Newell Corp. does maintain a state plumbing license, and one with the City of Toledo, but would not be allowed to work in Lucas County outside of Toledo without a county license.

Mr. Wurzelbacher said he works under Al Newell’s license, but according to Ohio building regulations, he must maintain his own license to do plumbing work.

Mr. Wurzelbacher said he was hired by Mr. Newell six years ago and that the possibility of him eventually buying the company was discussed during his job interview.

Mr. Wurzelbacher’s notoriety has raised the ire of Tom Joseph, business manager for Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters, and Service Mechanics, who claimed that Mr. Wurzelbacher didn’t undergo any apprenticeship training.

"When you have guys going out there with no training whatsoever, it’s a little disreputable to start with," Mr. Joseph said. "We’re the real Joe the Plumber."

"This individual has got no schooling, no licenses, he’s never been to a training program, union or non-union, in the United States of America," Mr. Joseph said.

The association has endorsed Barack Obama, according to Mr. Joseph.

Note: I copied the paragraphs that I felt were important to answer the question asked.

toledoblade.com -- 'Joe the plumber' isn’t licensed

When did it become acceptable for somebody to lie about everything about themselves (He didn't lie about his name) and their situation to make a point?

Simple. They don't want to talk about the question Joe asked or the answer Obama gave.

If Obama was told the truth, then Obama was likely to tell Joe that his plan will work for Joe and that he will be better off since his income or the company that he talked about does not even come close to $250K.

They understand that if they where in the position of the person making more than 250K they wouldn't want to feel the hand of someone else in their pocket either while the government pointed a gun at them to make the thief feel safe.

I understand that if I knew I was going to make $250K, I would be talking to my accountant so it would show that I didn't make over $250K. Easy to do and completely legal.

Originally Posted by Kevin Luce

If Obama was told the truth, then Obama was likely to tell Joe that his plan will work for Joe and that he will be better off since his income or the company that he talked about does not even come close to $250K.

Which is irrelevant to the answer Obama gave.

I understand that if I knew I was going to make $250K, I would be talking to my accountant so it would show that I didn't make over $250K. Easy to do and completely legal.

You think you are alone?

That is why they magic money Obama wants to find will not appear.

People will not just take it. They will find ways to avoid the tax.

When the tax cuts end in 2010 it will go back to the higher taxes of the Clinton years.
Joe Smo who cares, all I know is I won't try and make more then $250,000 (God knows I wish I could get close) and I think most people will look for ways to do the same. That alone will hurt growth.

Originally Posted by Mike Schulz

...all I know is I won't try and make more then $250,000 (God knows I wish I could get close) and I think most people will look for ways to do the same. ...

When you do get close to $250,000, please put something away for retirement that is tax free or tax deferred. That 3% extra you will be paying for going over $250,000 might kill your business growth.

Rick, Hey Rick, has anyone seen Rick.

Just want to thank you Rick. Great thread starter here with 174 replies and 1,745 viewings.

Nothing like a good healthy thread to get the blood flowing and get folks interested. Just want to commend you Rick for a great post. During election time this is what should take place and help to, one way or the other, help folks to make up there mind about such an economic debate during a Presidential election.

Great job Rick.

Where does 3% come from. Why hasn't Obama on his campaign say it's only 3% increase. There is also indications that the threshold might be 200,000. Who knows what it will be before its over. If your paying 35% now and they keep raising it you will be giving half before it's all over with. Hell lets just throw all our money in a pot and divide equally........

Who knows once he is in office he just might want to push paying back all the African Americans for there fore fathers slavery. He has spoke of it on a radio show several years ago.

My goodness I'll be glad when this election is history and the lunacy will stop on this venue.... but will it?

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

Kevin, where do you get your information?
I saw an interview with Joe, and according to him, he has worked under the license of his boss (who owns the company) for something like 14 years and is studying to take his master plumber's license. He wants to buy the business.
What is wrong with that?
Why all this negative attack on someone with ambition to become a small business owner. Is it wrong to have dreams?

Jim,

What's wrong?

Joe The Plumber *is required* to be licensed to do what he has been doing, and he is not.

He owes back taxes. HE is "sharing your wealth".

Joe The plumber's "share the wealth" program ... share it with him.

Originally Posted by Mike Schulz

Where does 3% come from.

It comes from the difference between what McCain is proposing and what Obama is proposing.

Why hasn't Obama on his campaign say it's only 3% increase.

They have, but many people have closed minds and only listen and hear what they want to hear, they don't hear the news reports when they explain McCain's plan and Obama's plan, all they here is that tax cheat, unlicensed plumber's helper, harping on 'Share the Wealth" ... yeah, Joe The Plumber wants you to "Share the Wealth" ... with him.

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

My goodness I'll be glad when this election is history and the lunacy will stop on this venue.... but will it?

WC Jerry,

Can't answer you there.

With some of the recent outrageous posts, I suggested to Brain that maybe he should delete those threads.

Have not heard back from Brian, nor has he deleted them, so I'm guessing those threads will stay.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Jim,

What's wrong?

Joe The Plumber *is required* to be licensed to do what he has been doing, and he is not.

He owes back taxes. HE is "sharing your wealth".

Joe The plumber's "share the wealth" program ... share it with him.

According to a fairly reliable and independent source, Joe the Plumber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plumbing career
Wurzelbacher is one of two employees of a small plumbing firm, Newell Plumbing and Heating Co. of Toledo,[7] the company he described to Obama as making $250,000 to $280,000 per year.[7] Wurzelbacher said that the idea of buying the company was discussed during his job interview six years prior.[5] According to MSNBC, Court records show that Wurzelbacher made $40,000 in 2006.[15] Dun & Bradstreet estimates the annual sales of A. W. Newell Corporation, the actual corporate name, at $510,000, and states it has 8 employees. [26]
An Associated Press article reported that Wurzelbacher did not have a plumber's license or apprenticeship,[27] although Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics revealed that Wurzelbacher began an apprentice program in 2003 which did not result in completion.[28]
Wurzelbacher actually does not need a plumbing license because he works for a plumbing corporation, which holds responsibility for licensing issues. Additionally A. W. Newell holds licenses with the State of Ohio and City of Toledo.[5][12] Even in light of the fact that Lucas County Building Inspection records show A. W. Newell Corp. does maintain a state plumbing license, another with the City of Toledo, and none in Lucas County Ohio, Joe Wurzelbacher has no control nor responsibility in regard to this issue. Even if according to Ohio building regulations, he must maintain his own license to do independent plumbing work[29], Joe Wurzelbacher is not presently an independent plumber, meaning this is not presently a regulatory issue.

ABC News reported on October 16 that there is a judgment lien against Wurzelbacher for non-payment of $1,182 in Ohio state income taxes dating to January 2007, but "no action has been taken against him outside of filing the lien." Barb Losie, deputy clerk of the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas, said that "there is a 99 percent chance [Wurzelbacher] doesn't know about the lien, unless he did a credit report or was ready to pay his taxes."[44] While on Hannity & Colmes, Wurzelbacher stated that he was unaware of the tax lien prior to it being reported in the press, and felt he was being attacked because of his question of Obama.[45]

I think the negative attention on Joe is quite simply politically motivated with no one really too worried about his tax bill or his license until he dared to question "The One"
Give the guy a break, it is not like he is running for president and lied about his connections to terrorists or anything, he just ask a question about the tax program and how it would affect him and his future dreams.

Originally Posted by Kevin Luce

I understand that if I knew I was going to make $250K, I would be talking to my accountant so it would show that I didn't make over $250K. Easy to do and completely legal.

And this is exactly why his tax plan will not work. The people who thought the tax plan wouldn't affect them will wind up paying. There's no way Obama will be able to pay for all of his entitlement programs by just taxing the top 3-4% of wage earners.
To me, this is a first. I've never seen a candidate run on the platform of promising to raise taxes. Thinking it will "never happen to me" is a big mistake.

Great post Jim.

Personally Joe being licensed or not or having to be licensed or not does not matter one bit.

I am not sure what all the fuss about a license was. He could have been a bum off the street for all I care. Fact is he was talking about his possible future and bettering himself. Having a license or not does not have to do with a lot of businesses in a lot of states. Shoot, even if I did not have a home inspectors license I could start a home inspection business and have licensed employees under me as qualifiers. As long as no one was performing an inspection with out a license everything would be just fine.

He has been working a number of years as a plumber. What would possibly not make him qualified to own a plumbing company. You know, I did not take the time to check it out but I bet he could own the company in his state as long as he had licensed plumbers doing the work.

I hate the idea of anyone thinking for some reason that because one did not take a test than they are not qualified for something.

Yes a good portion of the time the licensed tested individual should know more but by no means makes him more qualified to do a proper job or own a company for that matter.

Enough said with all that for me. Some things just tick me off. Looking down upon anyone or thinking ones self is better than the other ones self has always pushed my buttons.

I am better than you because>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You are worthless because>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You can not know what you are doing because>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sorry, I get carried away some times.

"Who is John Galt?"

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

According to a fairly reliable and independent source, Joe the Plumber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"According to a fairly reliable and independent source," Joe in the Spotlight - The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com

An official at Local 50 of the plumber’s union, based in Toledo, said Mr. Wurzelbacher does not hold a license. He also has never served an apprenticeship and does not belong to the union. (The national plumber’s union, the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters, and Service Mechanics, endorsed Mr. Obama, it should be noted.)

“He’s basically playing games with the world,” Thomas Joseph, the local’s business manager, said in a telephone interview Thursday morning.

Joe The Plumber is looking for his free time in the spotlight, for his 15 minutes of fame (which he has so far stretched much beyond that).

While Joe The Plumber is not running for President, he is being carried high on the shoulder's of two people who are running for President/Vice President, touting him as an example, and if Joe The Plumber is their "example" of what they want, they are totally in the wrong ballgame ... wait ... Joe The Plumber fits right in with Palin and her graft and corruption ... no wonder she holds Joe The Plumber in such high esteem.

And to think That darn Joe the plumber just may put McCain in the white house...

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

According to a fairly reliable and independent source, Joe the Plumber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plumbing career
Wurzelbacher is one of two employees of a small plumbing firm, Newell Plumbing and Heating Co. of Toledo,[7] the company he described to Obama as making $250,000 to $280,000 per year.[7] Wurzelbacher said that the idea of buying the company was discussed during his job interview six years prior.[5] According to MSNBC, Court records show that Wurzelbacher made $40,000 in 2006.[15] Dun & Bradstreet estimates the annual sales of A. W. Newell Corporation, the actual corporate name, at $510,000, and states it has 8 employees. [26]
An Associated Press article reported that Wurzelbacher did not have a plumber's license or apprenticeship,[27] although Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics revealed that Wurzelbacher began an apprentice program in 2003 which did not result in completion.[28]
Wurzelbacher actually does not need a plumbing license because he works for a plumbing corporation, which holds responsibility for licensing issues. Additionally A. W. Newell holds licenses with the State of Ohio and City of Toledo.[5][12] Even in light of the fact that Lucas County Building Inspection records show A. W. Newell Corp. does maintain a state plumbing license, another with the City of Toledo, and none in Lucas County Ohio, Joe Wurzelbacher has no control nor responsibility in regard to this issue. Even if according to Ohio building regulations, he must maintain his own license to do independent plumbing work[29], Joe Wurzelbacher is not presently an independent plumber, meaning this is not presently a regulatory issue.

You should read their sources. I'm reading their sources different then what is written. Example: They write that Wurzelbacher actually does not need a plumbing license because he works for a plumbing corporation, which holds responsibility for licensing issues. Yet from their source it is clearly written that he does need a plumbing license. A source they used states that Joe the so called plumber commented that there are only two employees, yet for some reason I read above that there are 8 employees. Can Joe the so called plumber make that kind of mistake when he is looking at buying the company?

Source #5 is the exact same source that I posted so they must think its "fairly reliable".

I'm questioning how reliable Joe the Plumber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is because of what they wrote compared to what their sources say.

Here is a comment that is from the #28 source from Joe the Plumber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Even if Wurzelbacher's hypothetical were true, tax experts said it is unclear whether he would pay higher taxes under Obama's plan."

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

"According to a fairly reliable and independent source," Joe in the Spotlight - The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com

An official at Local 50 of the plumber’s union, based in Toledo, said Mr. Wurzelbacher does not hold a license. He also has never served an apprenticeship and does not belong to the union. (The national plumber’s union, the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters, and Service Mechanics, endorsed Mr. Obama, it should be noted.)

“He’s basically playing games with the world,” Thomas Joseph, the local’s business manager, said in a telephone interview Thursday morning.

Joe The Plumber is looking for his free time in the spotlight, for his 15 minutes of fame (which he has so far stretched much beyond that).

While Joe The Plumber is not running for President, he is being carried high on the shoulder's of two people who are running for President/Vice President, touting him as an example, and if Joe The Plumber is their "example" of what they want, they are totally in the wrong ballgame ... wait ... Joe The Plumber fits right in with Palin and her graft and corruption ... no wonder she holds Joe The Plumber in such high esteem.

Agree

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

"According to a fairly reliable and independent source," Joe in the Spotlight - The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com

Wow, I stopped reading your post after the NYTimes as a "reliable and independent source" comment.

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

According to a fairly reliable and independent source, Joe the Plumber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

"According to a fairly reliable and independent source," Joe in the Spotlight - The Caucus Blog - NYTimes.com

Originally Posted by Tony Infelise

Wow, I stopped reading your post after the NYTimes as a "reliable and independent source" comment.

Tony,

Now do you see why I used it, and even put it in "quotes"?

Jim posted based on a "reliable and independent source", so, being the good sport that I am, I also used the "reliable and independent source" headline.

Nonetheless, the information is just as good, all depends you starting viewpoint: If you are for Bush, you are for McCain, nothing will change that. If you are not for Bush, you are not for McCain, nothing will change that. (They are basically one and the same with regards to policy.) If you are for Obama, nothing is going to change that.

Which kinda makes all these political threads useless.

Get it?

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Which kinda makes all these political threads useless.:

Well now there's something we all can agree with.

My my my.

All this talk about Joe the plumber instead of Obama's "spread the wealth" answer to his question.

Very telling IMHO.

Don't like the message. Kill the messenger.

Some things don't change.

I noticed this thread began talking about Joe the plumber and it looks like Ron B. started taking it in a different direction. I find it a little amusing that in post #51, he wrote that he was trying to stay out of it even though he made a few post before and many after.