Thread: Spread the wealth

COPIED

Redistribution in Practical Application
Today on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read
"Vote Obama, I need the money." I laughed.

Once in the restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08" tie, again I
laughed as he had given away his political preference -- just imagine
the coincidence.

When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him
that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside.
The server angrily stormed from my sight.

I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the
server inside as I've decided he could use the money more The homeless
guy was grateful.

At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I
realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn,
but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn
even though the actual recipient deserved money more.

I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in
concept than in practical application

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Spread the wealth huh. Hmmm, let me think. Yup, you, the Jerrys and Jims and Ricks can pass a little of your wealth to me and then you can all say you already participated

Ted,

Your check is in the mail.

I was out your way today, could have dropped it off I guess. Had an inspection over there near the Miller Brewery off 35W. The Mrs. Bairds Bakery next door smelled great though.

Hour out there and an hour back. 2.5hrs at the house, 1 hr. on the report.
I'm going back to work at Chippendales.

rick

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

Ted,

Your check is in the mail.

I was out your way today, could have dropped it off I guess. Had an inspection over there near the Miller Brewery off 35W. The Mrs. Bairds Bakery next door smelled great though.

Hour out there and an hour back. 2.5hrs at the house, 1 hr. on the report.
I'm going back to work at Chippendales.

rick

I have one down there on Thursday. I know what you mean about the time involved with the travel. You must be pretty slow if you are coming all the way over here.

Forget about the check. I want cash. I want as much going into my own pocket as possible. If you give me a check you will be throwing some money away cause I'll get taxed on it.

Oh, I am sorry. You want to spread the wealth around Well shoot if you give me cash I will make sure I keep it all and I'll give your gran babies a cut

I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in
concept than in practical application

It say's it sounds good on paper to those that favor it but in practice it sucks. I don't like the concept and hope to God that people wake up and smell the roses before there pockets get hit by the Obama train.

It was one of those friends of the family type deals. Their son was buying a home and they knew me. I couldn't tell them no. They have sent me a ton of referrals over the years.

You said "shoot". Here's a game for you Ted.

Shoot em up.

rick

Southbank - Turkey Shoot

9875 score. If it wasn't a shot gun I would have missed a lot more.

All taxation involves redistribution, How people feel about it (except for the most extreme sorts of “Taxation is Theft” libertarians) depends on where it’s being redistributed to - but whether it goes to a defense contractor, a rural health clinic or to pay the emergency bill for the 20th emergency room visit for chronic alcoholic, it’s all still “redistribution” of your money to somebody else.

How much redistribution, and to whom, is a matter for the voters to decide. I don’t like a lot of the redistributive spending decisions made by our elected representatives, but as long as I want to live here I’ve got to pay my taxes along with everyone else, and my option if I want to change public policy is to do so by altering their behavior. And looking at the world’s present governments, it appears that the alternatives are authoritarian kleptocracy or economic and social anarchy.

However, the diner's decision not to tip the server and donate to the homeless person is not "redistribution" in this sense (see below), it's someting else.

For example, you can regard it as a decision about how to practice charity as he or she has no legal obligation to tip the server and/or drop a dollar in the beggars cup.

And for the diner to be making the point they (apparently) feel they are making in this anecdote this has to be the case: having no obligation to either party, neither the waiter or the homeless person has reason to be upset if the diner prefers the other, and the diner is solely responsible for making the choice and either choice is equally reasonable.

However, you can also regard tipping the server as a matter of an informal but widely recognized economic contract: I provide you with good service, you provide me with additional income.

Not everyone observes the contract, some servers believe a tip is their due for poor service, and some people who refuse to tip no matter how good the service.

And for the contract to be effective (that is to be a fair exchange) people have to be somewhat altruistic: I tip up for good service at a restaurant in a strange city which I will never return, and the server (hopefully) provides me with good service without knowing in advance whether or not I will tip, or not.

Nevertheless, the arrangement is advantageous enough so it is widely practiced with sufficient regularity so it works the mutual advantage of both parties.

So when the diner violates the terms of his informal contract with the server, he or she is not practicing “redistribution” in the sense of following a formal or informal set of agreed-upon rules, instead he or she is engaging in act of economic anarchy, subverting a system of agreed-upon rules to the detriment of both the informal parties to the contract.

Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

.
I'm going back to work at Chippendales.
.

rick

.
There is a Big Demand for ELVIS Impersonators.
.Did I say big?
.

McCain's own "spread the wealth" program (and not his only one).

"A major area of contrast is prescription drug coverage, also known as Medicare Part D, which Congress passed in 2003. McCain opposed it then, saying "we didn't have a single way of paying for it."

Now he argues Medicare could save $2 billion a year by making wealthier recipients - say, those making more than $80,000, pay for a larger share of their own drugs."

I watched this on TV tonight, and found it on the internet for you McCain lovers who think your money will be safe with McCain.

How Obama And McCain Differ On Medicare, CBS Evening News: How The Candidates Propose To Fix The Ailing Program - CBS News

For each Obama story there is a matching, and usually worse, McCain story.

Joe The Plumber is an embarrassment to REAL plumbers, according to the local union, no training, not licensed and, by the way, Joe The Plumber *IS* required to be licensed, does not pay his taxes, has not idea of how or when he would be able to buy his bosses company, and 'him and his boss talking about him buying the company' - during his job interview, not much since then.

McCain holding Joe The Plumber up like he is an upstanding citizen, and he is a tax cheat, a dead beat who owes back taxes ... now ... *who do you think is "spreading the wealth"? Joe The Plumber ... from all taxpayers to himself.

Guess he is following good examples for swindling the government: Two shining stars from Alaska - Palin and Stevens.

You guys supporting McCain have no idea what kind of puppy you are backing - don't want another 'W'? You'd be getting one with McCain - he himself has said that he has backed 'W' more than 90% of the time, more than most other Republicans, that 'W' and his policies are 'on the right track'.

McCain's own "Share the Wealth" programs.

McCain has my vote, signed, sealed, and delivered!! GO McCain-Palin.

Share the wealth. McCain says it!
YouTube - ZOMFG! John McCain Is A Socialist!

Personally Mike, as a past waiter, I would have redistributed a few of the eggs in the walkin to your car as you were driving away.
Never screw with anyone who handles your food.
I used to have a great 80 yard lob shot.
Save the tip? PAy the car wash!!
Now, the fact that you would rather give your money to someone who dosen't deserve it rather than someone who does just puts you right in line with McCains hopes of giving our money to people who don't deserve it.
I'm not saying Obama is the next coming, but anyone who would put up a ditz women, hoping to cover the female vote, just because they will never get the black vote is just stupid beyond belief.
WE have already bought her and her family a new wardrobe at 150G's and she hasn't even won yet.

Hey Billy, Theres a little more than wealth getting spread around down there. That's as close to a gagging smily as I could find

Originally Posted by wayne soper

Hey Billy, Theres a little more than wealth getting spread around down there. That's as close to a gagging smily as I could find

.

Youse Yankees Just Don't Appreciate Fine Art.
* but not in this case.
.

Man am I getting blurry eyed reading all these post in all the threads.


Jerry P

Not saying anything against or for any of your post but this one thing.

Don't you think someone who pulls in 80,000.00 a year every year should be paying for their own drugs anyway. Seriously, again not picking at things but Don't you think????

I have a serious problem going to the doctors office or the hospital (only when I was about half dead or worse) and seeing folks in there sucking up there medical insurance cause they got a wittle sniffl. It makes me sick that they are tying up the doctors office and emergency rooms and driving medical insurance cost up and then do nothing but complain about how high there medical insurance is.

Oh my honey. You got a wittle boo boo. Why don't you run down the doctors and get that taken care of. That wittle paper cut could get infected baby.

Please. Talk about making me want to throw up.

Then the argument comes back

BUT I AM PAYING FOR IT ALREADY. No, that is in case you really do need it. Not to pamper ones little back side.

I payout $ 800 a month for insurance. when i see the Doc there is always someone in front of me with a get in free card. with 6 kids running all over the Duds office.

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

.
There is a Big Demand for ELVIS Impersonators.
.Did I say big?
.

Billy stop you are killing me... L.O.L L.O.L. L.O.L.

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Don't you think someone who pulls in 80,000.00 a year every year should be paying for their own drugs anyway. Seriously, again not picking at things but Don't you think????

Likewise, ... ... Someone making more than $250,000 per year should be paying more than the person making $40,000 per year, percentage-wise? "Don't you think???"

'Percentage-wise' is what you are saying is good for those seniors making over $80,000 k per year.

BOTH are "spreading the wealth" and that is only fair.

Look are your tax forms, the more you make, the higher the percentage the tax rate is ... until you hit the big time ... then you can afford to hire people to keep your tax rate as low as possible.

I had clients who's income taxes were over $2 mil per year ... friggin' INCOME TAX ... OVER $2 mil per year.

They complained to me about it, until I offered to switch my income and my taxes for their income and their taxes ... ... suddenly ... they did not really see a problem paying their taxes and not having my income.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Likewise, ... ... Someone making more than $250,000 per year should be paying more than the person making $40,000 per year, percentage-wise? "Don't you think???"

'Percentage-wise' is what you are saying is good for those seniors making over $80,000 k per year.

BOTH are "spreading the wealth" and that is only fair.

Look are your tax forms, the more you make, the higher the percentage the tax rate is ... until you hit the big time ... then you can afford to hire people to keep your tax rate as low as possible.

I had clients who's income taxes were over $2 mil per year ... friggin' INCOME TAX ... OVER $2 mil per year.

They complained to me about it, until I offered to switch my income and my taxes for their income and their taxes ... ... suddenly ... they did not really see a problem paying their taxes and not having my income.

Ron hit it pretty good but If you read my other post its says I get sick every time I see someone with a little sniffle plugging up the doctors office and emergency rooms sucking up as much as they can of there insurance instead of using it when it is really needed. The cost of medical and drugs and especially insurance are going thru the roof because of people like that.

Someone wrote about the illegal aliens running up the medical costs with their unjust usage of our medical system. Yeah yeah I understand about cheap labor but come on. When they walk into the emergency room for service of what ever might be ailing them and cannot produce an ID stating that they are an American citizen then sure, help them and then call immigration so they can go back to their own country for follow up so the poor woman with six kids and her husband died can get good medical for her flock.

The double standards with all this garbage is what is killing this country.

The tax thing. Well I am getting more and more for a flat tax on everyone. This way everyone pays FIT and all to the same proportion. If you make 20,000 then you pay 2,000. If you make 2 million then you pay 200,000. If you make 200,000,000 then you pay 20,000,000.

No write offs. No loop holes. no scamming. Medicaid and Medicare and SS should be one flat percentage. No write offs, no scamming. No loopholes.

As far as what that percentage should be I will let the brain children in the world figure that one out. the 10% on the flat FIT was just a picked figure.

Imagine that. No more gonna give these folks a break or those folks a break. No black, no white, no redskin Italians like me. I am not talking about business I am talking personal income.

As far as business goes. After all overhead is paid (material, labor, rent, insurance etc, etc) a flat set amount should be picked for any business as well. If they make 2,000 after all that or 200,000,000,000 after all that it should be a simple flat percentage that taxes are paid on.

I've tried to stay out of this as much as possible, but I can't help myself any longer. There are many people on this forum whose opinions I respect, but some I can't. At least, not those views that are political. For those who think McCain is not perfect, I state this right now: I AGREE.

However...

For those who support Obama, I humbly offer a few observations. First, consider that Obama is the junior Senator from Illinois. Prior to that he was a "community organizer." (I can hear it now...Obama graduated from Harvard!
Congrats...but GWB graduated from Yale. So which is better?)
OK, just what has Obama done that qualifies him for the presidency? His supporters love to paint Sarah Palin as unqualified for the VICE Presidency. Maybe so. But in all fairness, at least she held some elected offices, including that of GOVERNOR. I do find it interesting that they don't publicly proclaim Senator McCain as unqualified for the presidency.
I might remind the Democrats that their beloved Bill Clinton had only the experience as a governor (of the small state of Arkansas: my home) prior to assuming the presidency. (I would also remind you as you point out the economic benefits under his tenure that he had the benefit of "serving" as President under a largely Republican-controlled Congress.)
Unfortunately, Obama's supporters conveniently ignore his lack of experience. So just what qualifies him for the presidency? (Other than the desire to see George W gone?)

Really, what has he done?

Those of us of a certain age (I'm 48) remember the last Democratic candidate expected to lead us out of an economic downturn following a Republican presidency: Jimmy Carter.

Who fixed the deep mess that Carter left us? Ronald Reagan.

It's fortunate for Obama that a record number of young voters are registered. It's unfortunate for those of us who want to work for a living and keep what we earn that these young voters who weren't alive during the late 70's have such a poor grasp of recent history that anything pre-iPod doesn't register with them. ( If you think I'm wrong, just watch an episode of Jaywalking on the Tonight Show. Scary.)
Those of us who remember former President Carter also remember the 20% mortgage rates that damn near totally killed our economy -- and the embarrassing foreign affairs fiascoes that temporarily emasculated the country. Let's not forget that the success of the Iranian hostage situation helped cultivate the belief among terrorists that they could strike us without fear. Don't believe me? Remember the ugly Somalia incident immortalized in film as "Black Hawk Down"? That was in 1993, under Clinton's watch. Did our response to that teach anyone not to mess with the US? Of course not.
OK, I digress. But the point is that an ineffectual can't-we-just-talk-it-out Commander In Chief will embolden those who wish to see the US fall. It's that simple. The world stage is not an episode of The View. The fact is that there will always be leaders and other powerful citizens of foreign countries who have their own agendas to push. Agendas which will be better served without the US in the way. It's not being imperialistic to merely defend our own interests.

So, back on topic again, please tell me...exactly what has Obama accomplished as junior Senator from Illinois that makes him so qualified to be President? What bills has he sponsored with any other real support? What important committees has he served on and made a meaningful contribution to? Anyone...Anyone? My apologies to younger readers who may not remember this allusion to the scene from Ferris Bueller's Day Off from 1986.

Here's a relevant bit of info on the bills he's sponsored recently. Obama's Senate Record: 110th Congress

Anyone see anything of real importance there? I sure don't. Also, look into Obama's association with William Ayers, an admitted domestic terrorist who bombed multiple targets as part of the Weather Underground, and who stated that his only regret was that he had not bombed more. Look into the association with the "reverend" Jeremiah Wright. (Sorry, I can't bring myself to capitalize "reverend" when referring to someone who is the moral equivalent of a KKK leader.) And look at the contributions that Obama has pulled in through the years from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Can you honestly think this is only a Republican issue? Don't kid yourselves. Obama sucked in a LOT of dollars from the mortgage industry well before the collapse. PLEASE read this and other related information:Obama's Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac Connection-Truth!

Then judge for yourselves. But before you are too quick to embrace "change", ask yourselves if it really is change for the better -- or even change at all. It is my opinion that Obama is merely a demagogue -- the (somewhat) sanitized 21st century version of Huey P. Long.

If you want to argue with me, I probably won't reply. Seriously. I realize that many of you have decided who you are going to vote for, and reason and factual information won't matter. Fine; that's your choice in a free country. However, don't try to rebut my statements UNLESS you cite factual sources. Don't give me opinions without any supporting facts. I can't debate/educate everyone out there, and I am not interested in doing so. In reality, I am VERY far from a political animal. I simply find it hard to believe that we are at this point..

Originally Posted by Kevin Barre

OK, just what has Obama done that qualifies him for the presidency? His supporters love to paint Sarah Palin as unqualified for the VICE Presidency. Maybe so. But in all fairness, at least she held some elected offices, including that of GOVERNOR. I do find it interesting that they don't publicly proclaim Senator McCain as unqualified for the presidency.

There are two well qualified people running for President.

There is one well qualified person running for Vice President.

For those how think McCain and Palin are the answer, ask yourselves just what Palin would do as President ... and you thought Bush as a disaster and embarrassment to the country?

Palin would be only one 72 year old heart beat away from the Presidency.

Nothing coming up this next week for Halloween is anywhere near as scary as that.

Talk about Obama 'not being qualified because ...' and you are back in your own face.

Did the American people deserve to have an idiot elected in 2000? An *UNQUALIFIED IDIOT*?

There are a lot of Republicans and Alaskans who are endorsing Obama.

Colin Powell: Colin Powell endorses Obama, says Palin unqualified, defends Muslim-Americans | Countdown to Crawford | Los Angeles Times

Anchorage Daily News: Roy Greenslade: Alaska's main paper backs Obama over Palin | Media | guardian.co.uk

SATURDAY TRIBUNE - News

Chris Brown's Blog: Will More Republicans Endorse Obama?

Kevin Barre. Excellent post. A+

Jerry Peck Very poor work F- I know you can do better.

Ted Menelly Excellence post A+

Billy Stephens Excellence post A+

wayne soper Bad additude C- have a nice day

David Banks No copying please D

Trent Tarter Work harder on you post C.

Michael Thomas Good points A

Rick Hurst Good points A

Mike Schulz Good points A




Best

Ron

Jerry are you kidding me.
Your worried about Palin being unqualified and not Obama. It's funny how lefty's look right over the facts as Kevin stated.

Do you really think Obama won't hit your pocket book. All Democrats that ran on no new taxes, raised taxes.
Do you think the taxes are going to help the poor. It just a new revenue stream for them. Look at all the programs that are in place. They are abused. Fix those don't make more.

Obama harps on how much the war cost, but wants to pull the troops and hit Pakistan..........How much is that going to cost us.

Quit reading the media hype and look at the facts. I would rather have McCain at the helm against the towel heads then Obama. He'll just throw money at them.

Anyone who thinks this country is in a position to lower your taxes is delusional, regardless of how much money you make. We are in no financial position to lower anyone's taxes. We'll be lucky if taxes stay the same and the government can lower spending. These tax plans are both election year promises that can be proposed to congress, but have absolutely no guarantee of being passed or implemented.

Originally Posted by Mike Schulz

Quit reading the media hype and look at the facts.

I suggest you do the same.

I would rather have McCain at the helm against the towel heads then Obama. He'll just throw money at them.

"towel heads"

Obviously, though, you are one of those who think that it they are not 'like you', 'they are no good'.

I sure hope that McCain is happy for support from idiots who think like that and call people things like that.

What you do call a black person? A N.......?

How about a disabled person? A cripple?

I think you need to look in the mirror then look at the people in this country around you ... YOU may be the weird looking one.

Originally Posted by Kevin Barre

I've tried to stay out of this as much as possible, but I can't help myself any longer. There are many people on this forum whose opinions I respect, but some I can't. At least, not those views that are political. For those who think McCain is not perfect, I state this right now: I AGREE.

However...

For those who support Obama, I humbly offer a few observations. First, consider that Obama is the junior Senator from Illinois. Prior to that he was a "community organizer." (I can hear it now...Obama graduated from Harvard!
Congrats...but GWB graduated from Yale. So which is better?)
OK, just what has Obama done that qualifies him for the presidency? His supporters love to paint Sarah Palin as unqualified for the VICE Presidency. Maybe so. But in all fairness, at least she held some elected offices, including that of GOVERNOR. I do find it interesting that they don't publicly proclaim Senator McCain as unqualified for the presidency.
I might remind the Democrats that their beloved Bill Clinton had only the experience as a governor (of the small state of Arkansas: my home) prior to assuming the presidency. (I would also remind you as you point out the economic benefits under his tenure that he had the benefit of "serving" as President under a largely Republican-controlled Congress.)
Unfortunately, Obama's supporters conveniently ignore his lack of experience. So just what qualifies him for the presidency? (Other than the desire to see George W gone?)

Really, what has he done?

Those of us of a certain age (I'm 48) remember the last Democratic candidate expected to lead us out of an economic downturn following a Republican presidency: Jimmy Carter.

Who fixed the deep mess that Carter left us? Ronald Reagan.

It's fortunate for Obama that a record number of young voters are registered. It's unfortunate for those of us who want to work for a living and keep what we earn that these young voters who weren't alive during the late 70's have such a poor grasp of recent history that anything pre-iPod doesn't register with them. ( If you think I'm wrong, just watch an episode of Jaywalking on the Tonight Show. Scary.)
Those of us who remember former President Carter also remember the 20% mortgage rates that damn near totally killed our economy -- and the embarrassing foreign affairs fiascoes that temporarily emasculated the country. Let's not forget that the success of the Iranian hostage situation helped cultivate the belief among terrorists that they could strike us without fear. Don't believe me? Remember the ugly Somalia incident immortalized in film as "Black Hawk Down"? That was in 1993, under Clinton's watch. Did our response to that teach anyone not to mess with the US? Of course not.
OK, I digress. But the point is that an ineffectual can't-we-just-talk-it-out Commander In Chief will embolden those who wish to see the US fall. It's that simple. The world stage is not an episode of The View. The fact is that there will always be leaders and other powerful citizens of foreign countries who have their own agendas to push. Agendas which will be better served without the US in the way. It's not being imperialistic to merely defend our own interests.

So, back on topic again, please tell me...exactly what has Obama accomplished as junior Senator from Illinois that makes him so qualified to be President? What bills has he sponsored with any other real support? What important committees has he served on and made a meaningful contribution to? Anyone...Anyone? My apologies to younger readers who may not remember this allusion to the scene from Ferris Bueller's Day Off from 1986.

Here's a relevant bit of info on the bills he's sponsored recently. Obama's Senate Record: 110th Congress

Anyone see anything of real importance there? I sure don't. Also, look into Obama's association with William Ayers, an admitted domestic terrorist who bombed multiple targets as part of the Weather Underground, and who stated that his only regret was that he had not bombed more. Look into the association with the "reverend" Jeremiah Wright. (Sorry, I can't bring myself to capitalize "reverend" when referring to someone who is the moral equivalent of a KKK leader.) And look at the contributions that Obama has pulled in through the years from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Can you honestly think this is only a Republican issue? Don't kid yourselves. Obama sucked in a LOT of dollars from the mortgage industry well before the collapse. PLEASE read this and other related information:Obama's Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac Connection-Truth!

Then judge for yourselves. But before you are too quick to embrace "change", ask yourselves if it really is change for the better -- or even change at all. It is my opinion that Obama is merely a demagogue -- the (somewhat) sanitized 21st century version of Huey P. Long.

If you want to argue with me, I probably won't reply. Seriously. I realize that many of you have decided who you are going to vote for, and reason and factual information won't matter. Fine; that's your choice in a free country. However, don't try to rebut my statements UNLESS you cite factual sources. Don't give me opinions without any supporting facts. I can't debate/educate everyone out there, and I am not interested in doing so. In reality, I am VERY far from a political animal. I simply find it hard to believe that we are at this point..

Kevin. I like how you went back to the Carter years and skipped the Clinton Years. If Reagan fixed the mess Carter left us in then Clinton fixed the mess Bush1 left us in. Two Bushes two recessions. Or did Reagan leave Bush1 the recession?
By the way McCain's campaign manager got paid something like $30,000 a month as lobbyist for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae up until recently and his past company still gets money.
Did Reagan react to the Lebanon bombing of our marine barracks? Over 300 marines dead. Nope. I think he cut and ran.
Obama might not have the experience, but he has intelligence. Bush may have gone to Yale but he can not put a sentence together. This is a sign of an unclear mind. I do not want Joe six pack as my president I want someone smarter.
Palen? Well unclear mind is very clear. Does not even know what Newspapers she reads. Did Obama get reprimanded for ethics violations? Her husband belonged to and she spoke to a group that wants Alaska to succeed from the union. Now thats Patriotic!
Like someone else has recently said we all hear what we want to hear and ignore what we do not want to hear. Besides I think we all have other agendas besides the economy.

Originally Posted by David Banks

Palen? Well unclear mind is very clear. Does not even know what Newspapers she reads. Did Obama get reprimanded for ethics violations? Her husband belonged to and she spoke to a group that wants Alaska to succeed from the union. Now thats Patriotic!

Yeah, but that's what you get from guys who go to family reunions to pick up girls.

Here just some of more of it.

She was pregnant before they were married. Her daughter was pregnant before she was married.

Her son dropped out of school, daughter dropped out of school (or maybe just at risk of dropping out, nonetheless, poor attendance = skipping school), as did her daughter's boyfriend.

Her husband was arrested and spent time in jail for drunk driving (before they were married).

The list goes on and on and on and on ...

And some people WANT that family, their family values, as Vice President?

Boggles the mind, it does.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Yeah, but that's what you get from guys who go to family reunions to pick up girls.

Here just some of more of it.

She was pregnant before they were married. Her daughter was pregnant before she was married.

Her son dropped out of school, daughter dropped out of school (or maybe just at risk of dropping out, nonetheless, poor attendance = skipping school), as did her daughter's boyfriend.

Her husband was arrested and spent time in jail for drunk driving (before they were married).

The list goes on and on and on and on ...

And some people WANT that family, their family values, as Vice President?

Boggles the mind, it does.

I don't even know why I'm responding to this. This isn't one of your better posts. You seem to have intimate details of Palin's life when she was young (by god, I hope I don't get judged on what I did 25-30 years ago, how about you), here's a challenge for you, find us something on Obama's background, his childhood, his college years, his professorship...anything. This stuff seems to be difficult to find.
BTW, her son is now serving in Iraq and aren't single mothers a large part of Obama's voting base?

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Yeah, but that's what you get from guys who go to family reunions to pick up girls.

Here just some of more of it.

She was pregnant before they were married. Her daughter was pregnant before she was married.

Her son dropped out of school, daughter dropped out of school (or maybe just at risk of dropping out, nonetheless, poor attendance = skipping school), as did her daughter's boyfriend.

Her husband was arrested and spent time in jail for drunk driving (before they were married).

The list goes on and on and on and on ...

And some people WANT that family, their family values, as Vice President?

Boggles the mind, it does.

Jerry: Sounds like one of my neighbors. Besides, she's hot. I am a great believer that the presidency is merely a chair. The guy/gal that sits in it has so many advisors who actually know(or not) their own area of expertise. The chair simply picks from the best advice of his/her advisors.

And besides that, she's hot.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Yeah, but that's what you get from guys who go to family reunions to pick up girls.

Here just some of more of it.

She was pregnant before they were married. Her daughter was pregnant before she was married.

Her son dropped out of school, daughter dropped out of school (or maybe just at risk of dropping out, nonetheless, poor attendance = skipping school), as did her daughter's boyfriend.

Her husband was arrested and spent time in jail for drunk driving (before they were married).



The list goes on and on and on and on ...

And some people WANT that family, their family values, as Vice President?

Boggles the mind, it does.

Oh well. Kinda sounds like an American family who have gone thru a little in life. Does that really make for a candidate to not be qualified. Oops, your say she isn't qualified so it just adds to it.

Shoot, I just don't know what to tell yeah.

I got arrested for unpaid parking tickets in Boston when I use to do a lot of work in there. I guess that makes me a bad person. Just an oops on paying them for that month. No place else to park.

I use to drink and party with friends when I was younger. I guess that makes me a bad person. The boyfriend made a bad decision about leaving school to support his girlfriend. From what I understand he still plans on getting his diploma. At least he did the honorable thing and did not shrug his family responsibilities off and let the girl and his child fend for them selves.

The reality is if a cop waited for every person to come out of any bar and put the key in the ignition and turn the engine over and then walked up to the window and gave any of them a breathalyser test, everyone of them to todays standards would more than likely be drunk and spend the night in jail.

Oh my God. She was pregnant before she got married. I guess we should take Palin out back and shoot her. She disgraced mankind. Humans are just that, humans. They struggle thru life trying their best to do right and hic up now and then. I love the hell out of the woman and have great respect for her and all she has done and continues to try to do for her family and constituants. Palin makes real life speaches and not some trumped up "Four score and".

As far as Joe the unlicensed plumber trying to do the best for himself and family. Whats up with that. As I said in some other post some where. I could care less if he is not licensed as far as buying a plumbing company. I could buy a plumbing company. I could hire the right folks to do the job. I would not have to be licensed. Shoot, I could buy a Home Inspection company and not be licensed. Round up the work, pass it on to my licensed employees and live on. Would that be so wrong? Make me foolish? Make me worthless? No, I think not. It would make me a business owner trying to do better for my family and employees.

The woman has lived in the real world and has tried to make the best for her family and then the people she was Mayor over and the as Governor of the state of Alaska.

Family values. Jerry. Most af the senate and congressmen and woman have srewed up in some way. It gets found out over and over again.

I feel bad that you think that way Jerry. People going thru life and trying to make an honest living and better themselves and you seem to look down on them.

Have you ever made a mistake in life Jerry? Or even if it was not a mistake but just something that you wish you did different? Did you try to do better for you and your family after screwing up?

I respect you in many ways but I think (my opinion) that you are way wrong in your thinking on this one.

As Ron would say. We are still brothers with different mothers. No offense, just a difference in opinions.

Originally Posted by Tony Infelise

I don't even know why I'm responding to this. This isn't one of your better posts.

Not intended to be a 'good post'.

I figured I might as well post anti-McCain/Palin stuff just 'cause ... you know, just 'cause others are trying to berate Obama and post anti-Obama stuff.

I tried staying out of it as much as I could, but, those others kept posting, so ... what to heck ... I figured it was acceptable and the thing to do, so ... I did post too.

Jerry when I said towel heads it was in reference of war against the terrorist. I was not speaking of all. I do have better words for the terrorist but chose not to post them for they are much worst.

I have great respect for Asians, Mexicans, blacks and so on. It's the bad ones I will call words of whatever I choose. Are you telling me you don't? Have you ever called someone a terrorist, I'm sure you have and that is demeaning no more then what I said.

Besides you took towel head as demeaning. If a terrorist wraps there head with a towel what do you call it?

I think it is good we can vent om this site and not hold it against one another. Keeps us from going "Postal". Oops another bad word that is demeaning to post workers.

1. I can't imagine the use of "towel head" as anything else than a racial slur. A description? yeah right.

I would rather have Tina Fey as VP. I think she is better looking, and by far smarter.

Palin as Gov of a State that has less people than a whole lot of cities, does not exactly have a stellar record. She isn't exactly going to get a plaque in the town she was mayor in either. Not everyone just loves her.

Oh for the record, some of us that lived in CA when Ronnie was Gov were not exactly crazy about him either, and could not understand how he could get elected Pres. Besides, everyone knows that while Ronnie's lips moved when he spoke, Nancy had her hand in his back all the time.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Not intended to be a 'good post'.

I figured I might as well post anti-McCain/Palin stuff just 'cause ... you know, just 'cause others are trying to berate Obama and post anti-Obama stuff.

I tried staying out of it as much as I could, but, those others kept posting, so ... what to heck ... I figured it was acceptable and the thing to do, so ... I did post too.

Um, I guess I don't understand this post at all. It doesn't say anything. BTW, even though I don't post here all that often, I've been around for a while (I even remember you from the old ASHI forum) and you've never been known to "stay out of it as much as you could", which isn't neccessarily a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Tony Infelise

Um, I guess I don't understand this post at all. It doesn't say anything.

I would be clear as day if you read it with all the other posts here on this board regarding political stuff.

BTW, even though I don't post here all that often, I've been around for a while (I even remember you from the old ASHI forum) and you've never been known to "stay out of it as much as you could", which isn't neccessarily a bad thing.

If someone needed to be disagreed with, and no one else would step up, *I* would then step up to the plate.

Except that here I was trying to "stay out of it as much as" I could. Even posed to Brian, who owns this site, that the political posts were possibly getting a bit too 'out of hand'. Being as Brian elected to leave them, and other elected to post more, I figured, "Hey, what to heck, that must be the accepted thing to do." - so I posted some posts which I knew would raise the hair on the back of some necks.

Too bad, as I've said before, "fair is fair", you get to do it, we all get to do it ... you want to keep doing it, we all get to keep doing it. (Meaning "you" as in the plural, not necessarily "you" as in the singular 'you'.)

I think these posts have outlived any decency they may have had ("may have had" because they really never "had" any decency).

So be it.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

I think these posts have outlived any decency they may have had ("may have had" because they really never "had" any decency).

Again, I agree. I for one, cant' wait for this election to be over with so we can all move on.

I am still waiting for someone to post something factual about anything that Mr. Obama has accomplished other than winning elections...
Has he sponsored a bill, been a watchdog over wasteful spending, unethical behavior... seriously, does anyone know what he has done?

I will start with what I know good about Obama:

1. He gives good speeches.
2. He has raise twice as much money for his campaign as McCain.

Please add to the list.

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

I am still waiting for someone to post something factual about anything that Mr. Obama has accomplished other than winning elections...
Has he sponsored a bill, been a watchdog over wasteful spending, unethical behavior... seriously, does anyone know what he has done?

I will start with what I know good about Obama:

1. He gives good speeches.
2. He has raise twice as much money for his campaign as McCain.

Please add to the list.

He is tall

He can pose well

He has practised his stance in the mirror.

He has practiced his body language

He has given him self many speeches in fron of the mirror

Out of 4 years in the senate he spent a good year there and part of another year there.

Could not put bills forth

Spent 2 years running for president

He has stile but no substance

Did a half hour infomercial (well over 5,000,000 dollars)

He wants to take your money and give it to me

He bought and election with 600,000,000 dollars (thats 600,000,000 dollars)

Has had long relationships with US terrorist (true, no beeting me up please)

Had relationship with PLO supporters and Jew haters (true, no beating me up please)

Relationship with racist and US hating Ministers (true, no beeting me up please)

Don't you folks find those last three true statements just a little teeny weeny bit off to you??????????? Is he any of those things??? I doubt it but it is still just a teeny weeny bit off if you ask me.

Has said a thousand times that the civil rights movement never did do enough for his people (don't know what his people means) aren't all Americans "His people"

His wife is as rich or richer than McCains 100,000,000 dollar wife

He is goinf to save America and save the world

Spent 150,000,000 this past month for advertising (thats 150,000,000 dollars)

Oh, I am sorry you asked what he has done to be ready to be president and accomplishments before that

Sorry, I have not heard anything about that.

By the way I heard all this directly over a long list of interviews that obama was in.

To be honest with you I am not to wild about the other side either but the other side, both pres and vise pres are way closer to the center and are not to far right. Unlike Obama be way, way, way far left.

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

I am still waiting for someone to post something factual about anything that Mr. Obama has accomplished other than winning elections...
Has he sponsored a bill, been a watchdog over wasteful spending, unethical behavior... seriously, does anyone know what he has done?

I will start with what I know good about Obama:

1. He gives good speeches.
2. He has raise twice as much money for his campaign as McCain.

Please add to the list.

Read it and weep. Does not take much to do a little research. I say quite impressive for starting with nothing.

Barack Obama's Résumé

ObamasResume.org aims to put together a simple and complete description of Barack Obama's career.

Anyone may edit this wiki. Registration is required – you can register here.


Trace: »
−Table of Contents
Education
Undergraduate
Graduate
Organizing and other work experience
Teaching
Law Practice
Illinois Senate 1996-2004
United States Senate 2004-present Sworn in 1/4/2005
Sponsored Bill Statistics
Bills / Amendments Passed
Other Bills Introduced
SourcesEducation
Undergraduate
Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA
Undergraduate, 1981-1983

Columbia University
B.A. Political Science with specialization in international relations
Thesis topic: Soviet nuclear disarmament

Graduate
Harvard Law School
J.D. magna cum laude 1988-1991

President, Harvard Law Review

Organizing and other work experience
1983-1984 Writer/Researcher for Business International Corporation. Helped companies understand overseas markets in the “Financing Foreign Operations” service and wrote for the “Business International Money Report”
1984-1985 Community Organizer for New York Public Interest Research Group (PIRG), promoting personal, community, and government reform at City College in Harlem.
1985-1988 Director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland on Chicago's South Side. While director grew the DCP staff from 1 to 13 and their budget from $70,000 to $400,000.
1992 Led Chicago's Project Vote! push. This effort resulted in a record number of voter registrations, over 600,000 in Chicago. 1)
Teaching
1993-2004 Visiting Law and Government Fellow, then Senior Lecturer, in Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School. Taught courses on the due process and equal protection areas of constitutional law, on voting rights, and on racism and law. Helped develop a casebook on voting rights.
Law Practice
1993-2002 Worked as an associate attorney with Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland. Represented non-profits and private individuals in urban development projects, voting rights cases, and wrongful firings. Filed major suit that forced the state of Illinois to enforce the Motor Voter Law and successfully argued a wrongful firing case before the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.
Illinois Senate 1996-2004
Chairman, Health and Human Services Committee
Spearheaded a successful bipartisan effort in Illinois to pass the broadest ethics-reform legislation in 25 years, and gained bipartisan support for his successful bills reforming death penalty interrogations and ending racial profiling by police. Worked with the Republican-led effort to reform welfare.
Also sponsored successful bills expanding tax credits and child-care subsidies for low-income working families, protecting overtime pay for workers, expanding health care for children, and providing job skills training for juveniles.
New York Times chart on Obama's legislative record in the Illinois Senate: The New York Times > U.S. > Image > Obama’s Record in the Illinois Senate

United States Senate 2004-present Sworn in 1/4/2005
Member, Senate Foreign Relations Committee
Chairman, Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Affairs
Member, Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
Member, Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
Member, Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs
Shares responsibility for the bipartisan Coburn-Obama Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006, requiring full online disclosure of all entities receiving federal funds, and the bipartisan Lugar-Obama Cooperative Proliferation Detection, Interdiction Assistance, and Conventional Threat Reduction Act of 2006, deepening non-proliferation work with WMD and including surface-to-air missiles, land mines, and other weapons that may be used by terrorists. Also worked with Coburn to end the abuse of no-bid contracts in the wake of disasters.
Sponsored Bill Statistics
Number of sponsored bills: 70
Number of sponsored bills passed: 2
Number of co-sponsored bills: 404
Number of co-sponsored bills passed: 8
OpenCongress - Track bills, votes, senators, and representatives in the U.S. Congress (9/3/2008—-dankster keeps taking this out for some reason) (because it makes no sense at all. If you go to the NYT link or the Advanced Bill Summary and Status Search for the 109th Congress - THOMAS (Library of Congress) and Advanced Bill Summary and Status Search for the 110th Congress - THOMAS (Library of Congress) searches, you'll find that he's sponsored and cosponsored many times more bills than those stats list. They're ridiculously off.) PolitiFact | Obama sponsored a bill that became law

Bills / Amendments Passed
Barack Obama has introduced nearly 300 bills during his time in the U.S. Senate, and cosponsored close to 1,000 others. To see his legislative efforts, search the 109th Congress at Advanced Bill Summary and Status Search for the 109th Congress - THOMAS (Library of Congress) and 110th Congress at Advanced Bill Summary and Status Search for the 110th Congress - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
S.AMDT.1041 to S.1082 To improve the safety and efficacy of genetic tests.
S.AMDT.3073 to H.R.1585 To provide for transparency and accountability in military and security contracting.
S.AMDT.3078 to H.R.1585 Relating to administrative separations of members of the Armed Forces for personality disorder.
S.AMDT.41 to S.1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.
S.AMDT.524 to S.CON.RES.21 To provide $100 million for the Summer Term Education Program supporting summer learning opportunities for low-income students in the early grades to lessen summer learning losses that contribute to the achievement gaps separating low-income students from their middle-class peers.
S.AMDT.599 to S.CON.RES.21 To add $200 million for Function 270 (Energy) for the demonstration and monitoring of carbon capture and sequestration technology by the Department of Energy.
S.AMDT.905 to S.761 To require the Director of Mathematics, Science, and Engineering Education to establish a program to recruit and provide mentors for women and underrepresented minorities who are interested in careers in mathematics, science, and engineering.
S.AMDT.923 to S.761 To expand the pipeline of individuals entering the science, technology, engineering, and mathematics fields to support United States innovation and competitiveness.
S.AMDT.924 to S.761 To establish summer term education programs.
S.AMDT.2519 to H.R.2638 To provide that one of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5 million or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee certifies in writing to the agency awarding the contract or grant that the contractor or grantee owes no past due Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.2588 to H.R.976 To provide certain employment protections for family members who are caring for members of the Armed Forces recovering from illnesses and injuries incurred on active duty.
S.AMDT.2658 to H.R.2642 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.2692 to H.R.2764 To require a comprehensive nuclear threat reduction and security plan.
S.AMDT.2799 to H.R.3074 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.3137 to H.R.3222 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.3234 to H.R.3093 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.3331 to H.R.3043 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
Senate Resolutions Passed:
S.RES.133 : A resolution celebrating the life of Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson.
S.RES.268 : A resolution designating July 12, 2007, as “National Summer Learning Day”.
Other Bills Introduced
S.J.RES.23: A joint resolution clarifying that the use of force against Iran is not authorized by the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq, any resolution previously adopted, or any other provision of law.
S. 453: Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act of 2007. The Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act of 2007 (H.R.1281), (S.453), would establish criminal penalties for acts of voter deception. Those who knowingly disseminate false information with the intention of keeping others from voting would face up to five years in prison under the legislation. The Act was sponsored by Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) and 60 cosponsors in the House, and Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) and 15 cosponsors in the Senate. (20 Cosponsors)
S. 2030: A bill to amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to require reporting relating to bundled contributions made by persons other than registered lobbyists. (1 Cosponsor)
S. 2111: Positive Behavior for Effective Schools Act. A bill to amend the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 to allow State educational agencies, local educational agencies, and schools to increase implementation of early intervention services, particularly school-wide positive behavior supports. (3 Cosponsors)
S. 2066: Back to School: Improving Standards for Nutrition and Physical Education in Schools Act of 2007. A bill to establish nutrition and physical education standards for schools.
S. Con. Res. 46: A concurrent resolution supporting the goals and ideals of Sickle Cell Disease Awareness Month
S. 2044: Independent Contractor Proper Classification Act of 2007. A bill to provide procedures for the proper classification of employees and independent contractors, and for other purposes. (6 Cosponsors)
S. 2519: Contracting and Tax Accountability Act of 2007. A bill to prohibit the awarding of a contract or grant in excess of the simplified acquisition threshold unless the prospective contractor or grantee certifies in writing to the agency awarding the contract or grant that the contractor or grantee has no seriously delinquent tax debts, and for other purposes.
S. 2433: Global Poverty Act of 2007. A bill to require the President to develop and implement a comprehensive strategy to further the United States foreign policy objective of promoting the reduction of global poverty, the elimination of extreme global poverty, and the achievement of the Millennium Development Goal of reducing by one-half the proportion of people worldwide, between 1990 and 2015, who live on less than $1 per day. (9 Cosponsors)
S. 2330: Veterans Homelessness Prevention Act. A bill to authorize a pilot program within the Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development with the goal of preventing at-risk veterans and veteran families from falling into homelessness, and for other purposes. (1 Cosponsor)
FULL VOTING HISTORY
Barack Obama's Senate Voting Record

Sources
Milestones: Barack Obama -- The New York Times
Professor Obama was a listener, students say -- Chicago Sun-Times
An Obama Moment -- Geoffrey R. Stone at The Huffington Post
Detailed research into Obama and Clinton's bills that they have authored
Oxy Remembers "Barry" Obama '83
Andrew Sullivan lists major legislative accomplishments, and links to several other articles discussing Obama's record
TNR Online | The Agitator (1 of 5) (print)
OpenCongress - U.S. Congress - Sen. Barack Obama
1) Vote of Confidence - Chicago Magazine - January 1993 - Chicago

Karl Marx had a nice Résumé

Karl Heinrich Marx
Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society Modern socialism originated in the late nineteenth-century working class political movement. Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution which represents the transitional stage between capitalism and communism.
Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.
Socialism is not a discrete philosophy of fixed doctrine and program; its branches advocate a degree of social interventionism and economic rationalization, sometimes opposing each other. Another dividing feature of the socialist movement is the split on how a socialist economy should be established between the reformists and the revolutionaries. Some socialists advocate complete nationalization of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; while others advocate state control of capital within the framework of a market economy. Social democrats propose selective nationalization of key national industries in mixed economies combined with tax-funded welfare programs; Libertarian socialism (which includes Socialist Anarchism and Libertarian Marxism) rejects state control and ownership of the economy altogether and advocates direct collective ownership of the means of production via co-operative workers' councils and workplace democracy.

If this what you want you can get. just Vote for Obama...

Wake America. If you want this go over to USSR or China they can help you understand the just what end results of socialism will be.

As for me and my house... I will be free and a Capitailst. work for what i have. and help my brother with my own hand.

Big Joe biden. made 750K his tax form shows he only gave $ 350 bucks the charity. Thats a joke!

Just about every democrats gift to charity is a big fat 0

yet they call a conservitive mean spirited. L.O.L.

Best

Ron

Thanks to our states early voting I have already voted for the RIGHT person!

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

Karl Marx had a nice Résumé

Karl Heinrich Marx
Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society Modern socialism originated in the late nineteenth-century working class political movement. Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution which represents the transitional stage between capitalism and communism.
Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.
Socialism is not a discrete philosophy of fixed doctrine and program; its branches advocate a degree of social interventionism and economic rationalization, sometimes opposing each other. Another dividing feature of the socialist movement is the split on how a socialist economy should be established between the reformists and the revolutionaries. Some socialists advocate complete nationalization of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; while others advocate state control of capital within the framework of a market economy. Social democrats propose selective nationalization of key national industries in mixed economies combined with tax-funded welfare programs; Libertarian socialism (which includes Socialist Anarchism and Libertarian Marxism) rejects state control and ownership of the economy altogether and advocates direct collective ownership of the means of production via co-operative workers' councils and workplace democracy.

If this what you want you can get. just Vote for Obama...

Wake America. If you want this go over to USSR or China they can help you understand the just what end results of socialism will be.

As for me and my house... I will be free and a Capitailst. work for what i have. and help my brother with my own hand.

Big Joe biden. made 750K his tax form shows he only gave $ 350 bucks the charity. Thats a joke!

Just about every democrats gift to charity is a big fat 0

yet they call a conservitive mean spirited. L.O.L.

Best

Ron

Ron. Pretty sad you have to resort to scare tactics and false charges. What does putting the progressive tax system back to the Clinton years have to do with Socialism. Even McCain answered a girls question whose father was a doctor that it was fair to tax him more because of his higher income.
I think the people of America are seeing through all these lies and the Republican party will pay for this come election day.
I wonder what your God thinks of all your false statements?
Just about all Democrats do not give to charitys?

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Thanks to our states early voting I have already voted for the RIGHT person!

Same here.

9971 on my first try.

Originally Posted by David Banks

Read it and weep. Does not take much to do a little research. I say quite impressive for starting with nothing.

Barack Obama's Resume

Pretty impressive list, but after scanning through it, I see very little of importance or of a controversial nature to reinforce the "Change" mantra.
Most of the bills passed appear to me to be house keeping and clarification of previous measures.
Just my opinion, but it seems to be mostly "feel good" stuff that is mostly resume' padding. There are about 5-6 (didn't take time to take an accurate count) different listings to prevent contracts from being awarded if they owe any taxes. Maybe this is just a misprint or maybe the IRS needs help collecting, but not exactly something to write home about as a major accomplishment.

I am sorry, but I just don't see much in the way of accomplishments for someone wanting to be president.

Originally Posted by Jack Feldmann

9971 on my first try.

Shame on you Jack. Were you using a mouse or were you using a laptop with your finger pushing it around.

Oh yeah. I was answering calls, making dinner, talking with friends, typing a report, brushing my teeth and blowing my nose

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

Pretty impressive list, but after scanning through it, I see very little of importance or of a controversial nature to reinforce the "Change" mantra.
Most of the bills passed appear to me to be house keeping and clarification of previous measures.
Just my opinion, but it seems to be mostly "feel good" stuff that is mostly resume' padding. There are about 5-6 (didn't take time to take an accurate count) different listings to prevent contracts from being awarded if they owe any taxes. Maybe this is just a misprint or maybe the IRS needs help collecting, but not exactly something to write home about as a major accomplishment.

I am sorry, but I just don't see much in the way of accomplishments for someone wanting to be president.

Sad but true Jim but most of the things that go on in the Senate are just like that. Do much of nothing very costly bills. From what I understand and I could be wrong but Obamas goodies cost the US about a million a day just for his first year in the Senate.

I watched a show were both Rep and Dem Senators (3 each) both said that Obama was present a lot the first year and present a little the second year and basically disappeared the third year.

Another show where hearings were held on a vast number of things where Obama walked in late for most of the meetings and asked repetitious questions because he was not there to hear previous questions and answers. I saw a clip this morning on the news that reiterated that where clip after clip had him apologizing for being late and asking his forgiveness and a heads up that he may ask the same questions because he was not there to hear them to begin with.

Again I am not happy with either candidate but all I have seen about Obama was for a very long time he had an agenda all along of being the top gun. Please don't beet me up on this because I watch both sides every day trying to keep an open mind. All my life other than when I was very young I have always tried to go with the folks that made the best sense out of things and how I saw the country going at the time so it is not like I am rep or Dem.

I just truly believe that the far left is not the way to go right now.

And a little beat up on the Rep. Reagan may have helped end the cold war only because USSR could not keep up with the spending. Reagan had us trillions in overall debt and George 1 had to try to deal with that. We went into a recession. Rep over 12 years did not do the greatest job and their time ended in a recession. It was overdue anyway. Clinton had the appearance of doing a good job but his entire Presidency had the dot com boom behind him.

The dot com boom ended and about put us in a recession and the Dems and Rep had to do something about it.

And here comes the housing fiasco. It kept everyone working and no one complained at all because of the nice cash flow. The real problem, just a coincidence, came after the Dems took control other than the Presidency and lenders came up with all these wonderful ways to get more folks to buy homes (not just no down payment) that just plane could not afford them. So in the past couple to three years maybe 4 is where all this mess came from. Phony money and bad paper.

The absolute worse thing that has happened that will affect us working for years is they are now preventing folks that can afford decent mortgage payments but no money down except all the closing fees, from buying a home.

Don't get into the down payment thing. It has absolutely nothing to do with this crisis. Case in point. I just looked a a chart of the drop in home prices since the economy down turned. DFWs home prices have dropped an average of 14%. Even if someone had put 10 to 15% down, Oops, there goes the down payment with a 14% drop.

It was just and only just the selling of homes to those that could not afford the low mortgage payment and certainly not the greater payment later.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

.
Do much of nothing very costly bills.

.
Ted,

Are you saying that Renaming Post Offices, Court Houses, Highways, Bridges and other Important National Landmarks is not a Productive Endeavor and of Great Value and Service to The People Performed by The United States Senate? ---
most of Hilliary's bills as well.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

.
Ted,

Are you saying that Renaming Post Offices, Court Houses, Highways, Bridges and other Important National Landmarks is not a Productive Endeavor and of Great Value and Service to The People Performed by The United States Senate? ---
most of Hilliary's bills as well.

Unfortunately, other than a handfull of bills, most are like that from both sides. I guess thats what they are there for but things are out of control. More time has to be spent on important items and maybe, just maybe things would stay a little more stable.

Originally Posted by David Banks

Ron. Pretty sad you have to resort to scare tactics and false charges. What does putting the progressive tax system back to the Clinton years have to do with Socialism. Even McCain answered a girls question whose father was a doctor that it was fair to tax him more because of his higher income.
I think the people of America are seeing through all these lies and the Republican party will pay for this come election day.
I wonder what your God thinks of all your false statements?
Just about all Democrats do not give to charitys?

David If you look at just a few of the Dems tax papers you will see they just don't give. Al Gore was the same as biden he put some big bucks in his pockets and listed on his tax paper $ 150 bucks. thats a joke. and a fact.

Obama own words "spread the wealth around," Sorry but thats is what Socialism is. this is a fact. his words not my words.

The Dude is a Socialist...

You known. how many people do you known that. blow up police departments and US Building, Talk down about America, or speak down about Israel. We can find out a lot about people if we look at who they hang with...

How is it Obama hangs out with these people?

Dam man open your eyes...

John McCain spent 6 years in a_____Hole for you and me.

Respect to you David...

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

Dam man open your eyes...

John McCain spent 6 years in a_____Hole for you and me.

And that DOES NOT mean we give him the Presidency. If it did, there are A LOT of other Vietnam Veterans out there who deserve it more.

Cut that crap - seems to me that is the lamest excuse people bring up ... Oh, but McCain was a POW ... SO WERE A LOT of others. In fact, let's take your statement to the next level - let's make all those WHO DID NOT MAKE IT HOME ALIVE the "President", start reading the names, man.

Crimeny, for reasons to elect McCain, that is the lamest I see.

Second lamest- Having wet dreams about VP!

The only fun I've had out of this thread is Rick's Turkey Shoot.... 14,775 for the old geezer!
Man, will I be glad when this election is over...........

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

And that DOES NOT mean we give him the Presidency. If it did, there are A LOT of other Vietnam Veterans out there who deserve it more.

Cut that crap - seems to me that is the lamest excuse people bring up ... Oh, but McCain was a POW ... SO WERE A LOT of others. In fact, let's take your statement to the next level - let's make all those WHO DID NOT MAKE IT HOME ALIVE the "President", start reading the names, man.

Crimeny, for reasons to elect McCain, that is the lamest I see.

OK. So we give Obama the Presidency and overlook the people he hangs out with... what the _____.

Now thats the lamest of all times Jerry...

# 1. How can you overlook the people Obama hangs with???

Please reply to #1. one Q. Jerry.

Respect.

Ron

Originally Posted by Ron Bible

David If you look at just a few of the Dems tax papers you will see they just don't give. Al Gore was the same as biden he put some big bucks in his pockets and listed on his tax paper $ 150 bucks. thats a joke. and a fact.

Obama own words "spread the wealth around," Sorry but thats is what Socialism is. this is a fact. his words not my words.

The Dude is a Socialist...

You known. how many people do you known that. blow up police departments and US Building, Talk down about America, or speak down about Israel. We can find out a lot about people if we look at who they hang with...

How is it Obama hangs out with these people?

Dam man open your eyes...

John McCain spent 6 years in a_____Hole for you and me.

Respect to you David...

Best

Ron

You my friend are truly ignorant. But respect to you! The man is involved in the great educational learning institutions of America. Thats what these people do. Go to conferences. Listen to all sides. Does not mean he agrees. He was on a board with Bill Ayers that is trying to better education for inner city poor kids. Is this a crime?
This is how the peoples of the world can start a dialog and prevent hate and wars. What do you want Ron? No talking and constant hate and war?
Obama is not a socialist. No one was saying this until the recent Joe the Plumber episode. Talk about being brainwashed by television and propaganda from your candidate. Holy cow. All he is doing is changing the progressive tax rate to make it better for the middle class and you guys are spinning it and lying.
Remember the 9th Commandment.
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor"

Peace love and forget the tyedye!

Dave,

I liked Obama's comment when he said: (underlining is mine)

"Now, because he knows that his economic theories don't work, he's been spending these last few days calling me every name in the book. Lately he's called me a socialist for wanting to roll-back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans so we can finally give tax relief to the middle class. I don't know what's next. By the end of the week he'll be accusing me of being a secret communist because I shared my toys in kindergarten. I shared my peanut butter and jelly sandwich."

OH MY GOD! HE'S A COMMIE TOO!

Jerry. They will love this one. Must have been a Liberal from Harvard Yard.

Dear Red States,

We've decided we're leaving. We intend to form our own country, and we're taking the other Blue States with us. In case you aren't aware, that includes California, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and the entire Northeast. It may even include Florida and Ohio, as they are seriously considering it. We've given them until Nov. 4th to decide. We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation, and especially to the people of the new country. Since we're dropping the middle states we're calling it United America, or simply the U.A.

To sum up briefly: You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states. We get stem cell research and the best beaches. We get the Statue of Liberty. You get Dollywood. You can take Ted Nugent. We're keeping Bruce Springsteen and Billy Joel. You get WorldCom. We get Intel and Microsoft. You get Ole' Miss. We get Harvard and 85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You get Alabama. We get two-thirds of the tax revenue; you get to make the red states pay their fair share.

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms, and the highest concentration of pregnant unwed teenagers. Please be aware that the U.A. will be pro-choice and anti-war, and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If you need people to fight, ask your evangelicals. They have kids they're apparently willing to send to their deaths for no purpose, and they don't care if you don't show pictures of their children's caskets coming home. We do wish you success in Iraq, and hope that the WMDs turn up, really we do, but we're not willing to spend our resources in Bush's Quagmire. We'd rather spend it on taking care of sick people, and educating our children.

With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of 80 percent of the country's fresh water, more than 90 percent of the pineapple and lettuce, 92 percent of the nation's fresh fruit, 95 percent of America's quality wines, 90 percent of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT. With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to cope with 88 percent of all obese Americans (and their projected health care costs), 92 percent of all U.S. mosquitoes, nearly 100 percent of the tornadoes, 90 percent of the hurricanes, 99 percent of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100 percent of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia. We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

Additionally, 38 percent of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62 percent believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the war, the death penalty or gun laws, 44 percent say that evolution is only a theory, 53 percent that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61% of you crazy Reds believe you are people with higher morals then we Blue.

Peace out,
Blue States

What is truth?

Respect

Ron

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

What is truth?

Respect

Ron

THEN SHOW SOME.

Originally Posted by David Banks

This is how the peoples of the world can start a dialog and prevent hate and wars. What do you want Ron? No talking and constant hate and war?

This is a very idealistic idea, but not realistic. Who doesn't want peace, but unfortunately hate and war has been here since the beginning of time. It's the nature of man. All the talking in the world not stop it.
How do we negotiate with people who think nothing of flying planes into our buildings or strapping bombs to themselves and killing innocent civilians or even beheading another human.
I've heard this time and time again about starting a dialog. I'd like to know how we do this.

Originally Posted by Tony Infelise

How do we negotiate with people who think nothing of flying planes into our buildings or strapping bombs to themselves and killing innocent civilians or even beheading another human.
I've heard this time and time again about starting a dialog. I'd like to know how we do this.

First, you STOP SAYING 'We are not going to talk to you unless ... '

AS SOON AS you say that ... there can be no talking.

And I thought that was sooooo obvious?

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

First, you STOP SAYING 'We are not going to talk to you unless ... '

AS SOON AS you say that ... there can be no talking.

And I thought that was sooooo obvious?

Is that all? Why didn't I think of that? Or better yet, the world leaders think of that? All this fuss for nothing.

Originally Posted by Tony Infelise

Is that all? Why didn't I think of that? Or better yet, the world leaders think of that? All this fuss for nothing.

"Or better yet, the world leaders think of that?"

Because they like to sound more important than the others.

Kind of like back in the old days when the US would negotiate with North Korea, every night the North Koreans would saw just a little bit off the legs of the chairs of the US representatives, to make them feel a little shorter each time. It's all mind games, and the way you play mind games is not to accept the other's position (the others are not accepting the US position of 'do this or we do not talk', so there is no talk), the way to respond (in the example of with North Korea) is to come in the next day AND STAND ... making THEM shorter. If you want to play mind games, you really need to open your mind and think of alternatives which will offset what the other party is trying to do.

Otherwise, the game is over before it starts and you lose. As simple as that.

I have no idea who is running McCain and Palin, but from what I’ve seen I can hear the echoing laughter of Dickey Nixon along with his "dirty tricks" gang…. so much for the “low road.”….
Unfortunately repeating lies endlessly, misquotes, spin, and attempts at discrediting one's character has become a huge business in our country. Joseph Goebbels long ago professed that folks will not accept small untruths, but will gladly take to heart and repeat the big lie. Rufus T’ Firefly would be proud for sure.