Thread: Hunting After the Obama Gun Ban

Its a matter of time.

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Originally Posted by Rick Hurst

Its a matter of time.

Well, he has at least 4 years, and hopefully 8. I will bet you that in 4 years, and in 8 years, if Obama is re-elected, hunters will still be blowing away wildlife the same way they did under GWB. I mean traditional hunters, not people using Uzis and heat-seeking missiles, and such.
Assuming you're serious.

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Well, he has at least 4 years, and hopefully 8. I will bet you that in 4 years, and in 8 years, if Obama is re-elected, hunters will still be blowing away wildlife the same way they did under GWB. I mean traditional hunters, not people using Uzis and heat-seeking missiles, and such.
Assuming you're serious.

I agree.

I have heard many talk about President Obama taking our hunting guns away but haven't seen anything he has actually done.

Funny picture though. Where's Air Force One in the picture?

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Well, he has at least 4 years, and hopefully 8. I will bet you that in 4 years, and in 8 years, if Obama is re-elected, hunters will still be blowing away wildlife the same way they did under GWB. I mean traditional hunters, not people using Uzis and heat-seeking missiles, and such.
Assuming you're serious.

Including "helicopter hunting".

Then they will complain ... 'We were just about to purchase our hunt club's first helicopter gunship for hunting, dang that Obama, he put a stop to that.'

KA-50 Black Shark Attack Helicopter
AH-1 Cobra
AH-64A Apache Attack Helicopter
MI-24 Hind Helicopter Gunship
AH-6J Little Bird
Helicopter Gunships - Main Index

Originally Posted by Kevin Luce

Funny picture though. Where's Air Force One in the picture?

You are thinking of 'if Palin had been elected VP'.

Air Force One would be out of sight and using night vision so she could aim the laser guided missile to hit the fruit and trip the trap.

Oh boy here we go. Well let's look at it this way. When Obama is finished taxing everyone to death gun lovers won't have money to purchase firearms. Plus in another 8 years the government will own everything.

Originally Posted by mathew stouffer

... Plus in another 8 years the government will own everything.

Too late. GWB already sold the country to the Chinese. That's the COMMUNIST Chinese.

You can only blame GWB for so long. Hopefully china will not take the stance of our current admin and not accept repayement for the loans so they can make lot's of interest money.

I'm out. The pic was funny.

Originally Posted by mathew stouffer

You can only blame GWB for so long...

That's correct. For "so long" as the tragic and criminal actions of his administration still affect all of us.

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Well, he has at least 4 years, and hopefully 8. I will bet you that in 4 years, and in 8 years, if Obama is re-elected, hunters will still be blowing away wildlife the same way they did under GWB. I mean traditional hunters, not people using Uzis and heat-seeking missiles, and such.
Assuming you're serious.

Hunting and guns will never go away. No matter how much somebody doesn't like it or agree with it, hunting and shooting sports are like big tobacco in that they are too big and generate too much money to ever go away in this country. And, hunting is not a known carcinogen.

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

And, hunting is not a known carcinogen.

True, the results come much quicker ... BANG! ... Ker-plunk! ... no agonizingly slow painful death.

Compare gun related deaths in this country to obesity related deaths and the associated cost. I will take a gun to myself if gun deaths exceed death by fat lazy couch potato. Plus getting stuck on a 4 hour flight next to an obese person is worse than getting shot.

Don't hold back Matt. Tell us how you really feel.

I'm more concerned with whether Obama is going to ban giant squirrels, myself.

Isn't that what you were doing as well?

You can tell a gun lover when something is said about guns ... they are like deer caught in headlights - all they can do it stand there ... and spew gun loving criticisms of people even without those things being said.

(I can just see them standing there in the light now, staring at this, unable to move anything except their mouths and spew the same stuff out over and over.)

I have nothing against gun lovers, heck, take two hunters and be a real sportsman - go after each other ... give each other the same "sporting chance" you would give whatever it is you are out hunting, of course. It's not who shots first who wins, it's who is most accurate with the squeeze off and hit.

Well Rick,
I have to agree with you. Looks like there are a lot of folks out there that didn't grow up with a Dad that took them out hunting, so all they have to say is negative stuff about one of life's great relaxing past times. I think I will send another $100 to the NRA ILA to keep my constitutional rights. You know, those are the same rights that allow freedom of speech, religion and other somewhat important stuff. It doesn't bother me that some people don't like to hunt but I don't understand the ones that have to spew their ignorance to everyone.

Semper Fi

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

You can tell a gun lover when something is said about guns ... they are like deer caught in headlights - all they can do it stand there ... and spew gun loving criticisms of people even without those things being said.

(I can just see them standing there in the light now, staring at this, unable to move anything except their mouths and spew the same stuff out over and over.)

I have nothing against gun lovers, heck, take two hunters and be a real sportsman - go after each other ... give each other the same "sporting chance" you would give whatever it is you are out hunting, of course. It's not who shots first who wins, it's who is most accurate with the squeeze off and hit.

Likewise, you can tell who a hater of gun lovers is because they make broad generalizations about said gun lovers and paint all gun owners with the same brush......and think the best thing to do with hunters is let them go out and shoot each other.

That's intelligent too.

Erby,

I knew you'd been wanting to use that image, so I had to come up with something for you.

rick

For the gun haters

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

Likewise, you can tell who a hater of gun lovers is because they make broad generalizations about said gun lovers and paint all gun owners with the same brush......

Man oh man, you definitely got stuck in the headlights and let your imagination run wild ... where the wild things are, and what no one even mentioned, but I said that would happen, and you proved it to be correct.

and think the best thing to do with hunters is let them go out and shoot each other.

That's intelligent too.

It is. Think about it, 2 go into the woods, 1 comes out. Next trip in - 2 more go into the woods, 1 comes out. Quite an intelligent and quick way to do each other in. Thought it was kinda neat too. Thanks.

They could not get the guns at this time. So now They want the bullets.

They think we are all Barney Fife...

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

So now They want the bullets.

.
......
.
YouTube - Chris Rock - bullets control
.

What's amazing is how people ignore what they know to be fact, just because it doesn't fit their template. It hapens in many forms on all sides.

I can respect differing opinions but I have a hard time respecting any opinions that ignore facts.

It takes a prospering private sector economy to create wealth that can be taxed to feed the government. What is happening now is the government is growing while the private sector is shrinking. Can someone explain to me how this can be sustained? It aint gonna work.

Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr

What's amazing is how people ignore what they know to be fact, just because it doesn't fit their template. It hapens in many forms on all sides.

I can respect differing opinions but I have a hard time respecting any opinions that ignore facts.

It takes a prospering private sector economy to create wealth that can be taxed to feed the government. What is happening now is the government is growing while the private sector is shrinking. Can someone explain to me how this can be sustained? It aint gonna work.

Change you can believe in...

You get what you VOTE For. L.O.L.

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr

while the private sector is shrinking.

Hate to be the one to break this to you John, but ... that's BEEN happening since the last guy got in there and was there for a while.

Don't expect miracles to happen in just a few months when the other guy had 8 years to screw us and screw it up.

Ain't gonna happen.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Including "helicopter hunting".

Then they will complain ... 'We were just about to purchase our hunt club's first helicopter gunship for hunting, dang that Obama, he put a stop to that.'

KA-50 Black Shark Attack Helicopter
AH-1 Cobra
AH-64A Apache Attack Helicopter
MI-24 Hind Helicopter Gunship
AH-6J Little Bird
Helicopter Gunships - Main Index

Jerry,

Since you were clearly looking for an opinion, I think your best bet is the Apache. While the Cobra can clearly outgun your average armor plated deer, there just isn't enough room for a six-pack. And who wants to go deer hunting without smokes and a sixer.

The apache however, has the armament as well as an option for a nifty ice maker. Much better deal. Buy two and you get the ice maker and the IR targeting computer thrown-in.

Gunnar

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Man oh man, you definitely got stuck in the headlights and let your imagination run wild ... where the wild things are, and what no one even mentioned, but I said that would happen, and you proved it to be correct.



It is. Think about it, 2 go into the woods, 1 comes out. Next trip in - 2 more go into the woods, 1 comes out. Quite an intelligent and quick way to do each other in. Thought it was kinda neat too. Thanks.

Yep, pretty much what I expected.

Originally Posted by John Arnold

That's correct. For "so long" as the tragic and criminal actions of his administration still affect all of us.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Hate to be the one to break this to you John, but ... that's BEEN happening since the last guy got in there and was there for a while.

Don't expect miracles to happen in just a few months when the other guy had 8 years to screw us and screw it up.

Ain't gonna happen.

You and I both know we could go round and round about this. It's not worth the trouble. Instead, let's pay close attention to what happens and remember that facts have meaning. You can't change them.

Respectfully.....

Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist

Since you were clearly looking for an opinion, I think your best bet is the Apache. While the Cobra can clearly outgun your average armor plated deer, there just isn't enough room for a six-pack. And who wants to go deer hunting without smokes and a sixer.

The apache however, has the armament as well as an option for a nifty ice maker. Much better deal. Buy two and you get the ice maker and the IR targeting computer thrown-in.

Gunnar

Gunnar,

Sounds good.

Do both get the ice maker and IR targeting computer or just one?

If both, that's good, if not, I got dibs on them, you get the other one.

You are right, John, facts are important and time will provide those. As much as I appreciate a good debate I am really a little weary of the popular opinion that you have to be a color, red or blue, to fit into a cubby hole befor your take on an issue is considered. Like all of you I have opinions on guns, economy, war, morality, government, etc., but I am not red or blue nor am I a fence sitter so don't try to put me some where convenient so you can judge my opinion based on my "color" and don't label me just conservative or just liberal. I am a bit more complicated than that. We have almost 500 elected officials in Washington that have their opinions handed to them by their party while we sit out here wondering what the hell are they doing in DC. Why can't issues be debated openly without fear of retaliation from your own "color" party. I for one refuse to participate in this partisanship we are being sold out of Washington and would like for the issues facing this country to be dealt with without all the "blame" being used for the sake of the "color". Am I being naive? Maybe. That would mean I am "deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgement". Maybe I am because I try hard everyday to see through the "colored smoke" and get to the issues - the "facts". If you want to hunt, then hunt. If you don't believe in hunting then don't do it. For now it is our choice to choose. No that is a fact!

Originally Posted by Chuck Weaver

You are right, John, facts are important and time will provide those. As much as I appreciate a good debate I am really a little weary of the popular opinion that you have to be a color, red or blue, to fit into a cubby hole befor your take on an issue is considered. Like all of you I have opinions on guns, economy, war, morality, government, etc., but I am not red or blue nor am I a fence sitter so don't try to put me some where convenient so you can judge my opinion based on my "color" and don't label me just conservative or just liberal. I am a bit more complicated than that. We have almost 500 elected officials in Washington that have their opinions handed to them by their party while we sit out here wondering what the hell are they doing in DC. Why can't issues be debated openly without fear of retaliation from your own "color" party. I for one refuse to participate in this partisanship we are being sold out of Washington and would like for the issues facing this country to be dealt with without all the "blame" being used for the sake of the "color". Am I being naive? Maybe. That would mean I am "deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgement". Maybe I am because I try hard everyday to see through the "colored smoke" and get to the issues - the "facts". If you want to hunt, then hunt. If you don't believe in hunting then don't do it. For now it is our choice to choose. No that is a fact!

You have my vote. That is if you are running for office.

Can't we all just get along

Not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Big government equals big problems. I am not a gun lover but after they take away your right to bare arms what's next. You don't want the governmet in controlling everything. Just look at a few of their flagship businesses. The post office and Amtrak, neither have made a dime in their existence. Big gov't running the private sector is going to look like some of the best inspector photos of all time Anything the Federal gov't touches they screw up, doesn't matter who is in there.

Thanks, Rick. I appreciate it.

I suspect that Obama will not be nearly as bad as some people fear, nor as "progressive" as others hope.
At the end of his term, I think some will be relieved that he did not do what they feared he would, and others annoyed that he did not do what they hoped - much as with any other president...

Originally Posted by mathew stouffer

You don't want the governmet in controlling everything. Just look at a few of their flagship businesses. The post office and Amtrak, neither have made a dime in their existence.

And why would Amtrak be anything to complain about? The reason Amtrak came into existence in the first place is because PRIVATE BUSINESS FAILED at running them, so the government subsidized and supports the railroad.

Would you rather NOT HAVE a railroad?

Private business FAILED MISERABLY trying to run it in the modern day world competing against the other forms of travel.

Oh, I forgot, those who dislike "big government" forget that PRIVATE BUSINESS FAILED running that same business.

The U. S. Postal Service? Why would you even expect it to make money? It is a SERVICE for the country and should be considered as such.

Want to make money sending packages and stuff, that is what FedEx, UPS, and the others are for. Do you really think ANY OF THEM COULD SEND A LETTER for 42 cents to ANY ADDRESS IN THE US?

Get your heads out of your butts and think.

Some people are so anti-big government that they simply do not use that thing which sets on top of their neck above their shoulders. Jeez.

Originally Posted by M. Slusar

I suspect that Obama will not be nearly as bad as some people fear, nor as "progressive" as others hope.
At the end of his term, I think some will be relieved that he did not do what they feared he would, and others annoyed that he did not do what they hoped - much as with any other president...

Agreed.

You are missing the point. It's not why the came to be, it is how they are operated. Politicians and government can't successfully operate business. Politicians are me, me, me, and that doesn't work. Big government is extremely wasteful, that is a fact. Unnecessary spending of $90 billion per year in subsidies to agriculture and other corporate welfare. How does that make sense?

Originally Posted by mathew stouffer

You are missing the point. It's not why the came to be, it is how they are operated. Politicians and government can't successfully operate business.

YOU are missing the point.

PRIVATE BUSINESS could not successfully operate those businesses in the newer transportation environment ... why on earth would you expect government to be able to do so?

Re government vs private: It's my understanding the Medicare is way more efficient than private health insurance. No?

Get your heads out of your butts and think.

JP: The gun-slinging, hymn-singing, conservative-voting, big-business-loving are never, ever going to do that particular maneuver.

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

JP: The gun-slinging, hymn-singing, conservative-voting, big-business-loving are never, ever going to do that particular maneuver.

You still looking in that mirror Arron...

LOVE ME!!!

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

You still looking in that mirror Arron...

LOVE ME!!!

Best

Ron

RB: I have several guns - for self-protection - never had to use one yet. I have no need to shoot wild animals - I shop at Kroger. If I could carry a tune, it wouldn't be a hymn. There is only one thing in this world you can depend on - that is change (the antithesis of conservatism).

The helicopters JP dredged up are designed for hunting alright, just not wildlife. I signed on a few decades back for that kind of hunting. It was a big disappointment. The people you could legally shoot were not the ones that needed to be shot.

Put that in your scooter trash pipe and take a puff.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

PRIVATE BUSINESS could not successfully operate those businesses in the newer transportation environment ... why on earth would you expect government to be able to do so?

.
PRIVATE BUSINESS ( Railroads ) are very successful ( they haul freight. )

There were not enough riders ( chose Air or other forms of ground transport ) to continue in passenger service.

The Federal Government ( in it's infinite wisdom ) refused to let this form of transport die.
* guess the Stage Coach crowd did not have a strong enough lobby.
.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

And why would Amtrak be anything to complain about? The reason Amtrak came into existence in the first place is because PRIVATE BUSINESS FAILED at running them, so the government subsidized and supports the railroad.

Would you rather NOT HAVE a railroad?

Private business FAILED MISERABLY trying to run it in the modern day world competing against the other forms of travel.

Oh, I forgot, those who dislike "big government" forget that PRIVATE BUSINESS FAILED running that same business.

The U. S. Postal Service? Why would you even expect it to make money? It is a SERVICE for the country and should be considered as such.

Want to make money sending packages and stuff, that is what FedEx, UPS, and the others are for. Do you really think ANY OF THEM COULD SEND A LETTER for 42 cents to ANY ADDRESS IN THE US?

Get your heads out of your butts and think.

Some people are so anti-big government that they simply do not use that thing which sets on top of their neck above their shoulders. Jeez.

The post office will , some day become privatised and yes they will screw it up worse eventuall.

The post office is how much over budget, a billion or 2 maybe. What happened to the car makers is what is happening to the post office. So many folks retiring, fantastic medical, pay, retirement, vacations, sick days, holiday etc etc is going to kill the post office altogether. Why do you think socialism never worked out in almost all countries. They may not have made big money but everything was alloted to and paid for some of the few that were making money for those countries and what ever the gov could steal from anyone else to pay for it all.

Doing good with all the good bennies is one thing. Overpaying a mail deliverer 60,000 a year for sorting and delivering mail is another with all the bennies on top of all that and all the folks already retired on top of that is something differnet altogether. Yes I have a good friend that makes over 60 a year delivering mail and that does n ot include all the set assides and hi overttime and he works overtime all the time, about 15 to 20 grand worth.

The country has run a muck with everhyone has to be in the over 50 grand bracket plus bennies to service. So what else, a loaf of bread goes to 5 bucks and then ten. Where does it stop. There has to be some kind of control (I hate that word) to keep the mass wages then goods then wages then goods from going through the roof at the end of every recession (and it always does) and then a crash and then woopy lets see how high we can get it all this time.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

.
PRIVATE BUSINESS ( Railroads ) are very successful ( they haul freight. )

There were not enough riders ( chose Air or other forms of ground transport ) to continue in passenger service.

The Federal Government ( in it's infinite wisdom ) refused to let this form of transport die.
* guess the Stage Coach crowd did not have a strong enough lobby.
.

Billy

You are making me proud.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Billy

You are making me proud.

.
Thanks Ted,
*now I'm Doomed for sure.
.

Last year for the Bush Tax cuts. If you can buy something do it this year.

2010 and its all gone. My CPA say i need to buy something or give up 12K in taxes. and if i buy something i only pay $ 500.00

Looks like i will be getting a new T400 FLIR IR Camera. Better to spend it on something i can used then give it to _______

Then i can see stuff at night...

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

.
PRIVATE BUSINESS ( Railroads ) are very successful ( they haul freight. )

Ummm ... Billy ... he mentioned *AMTRAK* by name - that is a PASSENGER railroad, and PRIVATE BUSINESS ran them first, and ran them into the ground, and came begging to the governement to take them over.

There were not enough riders ( chose Air or other forms of ground transport ) to continue in passenger service.

That's a what I've been saying with "in the newer transportation environment".

The Federal Government ( in it's infinite wisdom ) refused to let this form of transport die.

The railroads kept asking for government money, and finally for the government to take them over and buy them out.

"Formed by Congress to relieve the railroads of the financial burden of providing unprofitable passenger service,": Philly NRHS - Amtrak History

The pendulum swings back and forth.

The fact that there is discourse including open opposition is one of the things that makes America great.

One of the things that hurts America dearly is an abundance of ignorance among its own people.

The pendulum will swing back. It's interesting to ponder what the general cause will be.

I've met foreigners from many parts of the world. They all want to be here and stay here. There is something to conclude from that.

How about we stop pointing fingers and start paying attention?

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Ummm ... Billy ... he mentioned *AMTRAK* by name - that is a PASSENGER railroad, and PRIVATE BUSINESS ran them first, and ran them into the ground, and came begging to the governement to take them over.



That's a what I've been saying with "in the newer transportation environment".



The railroads kept asking for government money, and finally for the government to take them over and buy them out.

"Formed by Congress to relieve the railroads of the financial burden of providing unprofitable passenger service,": Philly NRHS - Amtrak History

.
Mr Peck,

At that time the Railroads were under the ICC and had regulated rates ( could not charge more than Uncle Sam allowed them to charge.) a recipe for going broke to provide the required service ( carry passengers ) at a Rate the Federal Government said they could not exceed.
.
* we shall not go with the You Should Get Your head Out route.

Recap :
.
Federal Price Control on a Required level of Service = unsustainable Private Business ( of course if you can just wave your hand or sign a Bill to create the funds to run a Railroad, No Problem. )
.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

At that time the Railroads were under the ICC and had regulated rates ( could not charge more than Uncle allowed them to charge.) a recipe for going broke to provide the required service ( carry passengers ) at a Rate the Federal Government said they could not exceed.

Let's see, and just how much did they lose or waste from being regulated versus, say ... oh ... how about someone NOT regulated (you are, after all, trying to convince us that regulation is a bad thing, and I am, after all, trying to convince you that regulation is not always a bad thing - so comparing your regulation failure to a non-regulation failure is appropriate) ... let's say ... Bernie Madoff.

Which was the bigger failure? The failure to over regulate or the failure to under regulate?

Your turn.

Not a fair comparison you say? Yeah, it is a fair comparison.

Would you prefer Enron? Or ...

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Let's see, and just how much did they lose or waste from being regulated versus, say ... oh ... how about someone NOT regulated (you are, after all, trying to convince us that regulation is a bad thing, and I am, after all, trying to convince you that regulation is not always a bad thing - so comparing your regulation failure to a non-regulation failure is appropriate) ... let's say ... Bernie Madoff.

Which was the bigger failure? The failure to over regulate or the failure to under regulate?

Your turn.

Not a fair comparison you say? Yeah, it is a fair comparison.

.
.
I'm not an Accountant but the Regulation Imposed by the Interstate Commerce Commission between 1887-1995 with the Required Personal and Benefits ( still being paid ) coupled with the restrictive Rates allowed would dwarf Bernie's little pile of Cash.
.
or Enron or any other you Wish to Name.
.
Interstate Commerce Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

.would dwarf Bernie's little pile of Cash.

I doubt they would amount to $50 Billion in LOSSES.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

I doubt they would amount to $50 Billion in LOSSES.

.
Correct ( It would amount to a much larger number.)

The combined Revenue of Freight Railroads over a 27 year period 1980 to 2007 was 672 Billion Dollars.

Regulation by ICC lasted 108 Years.
.
*like the phone tax imposed ( still in force) to pay for the Spanish American War it mounts up.
oops repealed 2006 After 108 Years.
.
Added ( required personnel with benefits ) for every Train Trip for 108 Years.
* and You cannot charge but what the ICC allowed.

In today's dollars as an average over 108 At 20 Billion dollars of revenue per year ( closer to 24 to account for the lean years ) that would amount to well over 2 Trillion of today's dollars.

50 Billion of today's dollars would be 2.5% of lost revue and added cost of addition personnel ( firemen & such ) required on every Train and every trip for 108 years.
.
.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

The combined Revenue of Freight Railroads over a 27 year period 1980 to 2007 was 672 Billion Dollars.

.
.
.
Some how, without explanation, you go from revenue to losses ... that's based on what, your intuition?

.
.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

.
.
.
Some how, without explanation, you go from revenue to losses ... that's based on what, your intuition?

.
.

.
Percentage of revenue to comply ( The cost of doing Business. )

You make X.

It cost Y to comply .

Added payroll Staff for the trains, ( Brakemen, Firemen, Conductors, Porters, Kitchen Staff, Janitorial Staff, Bartenders, Maids , a few that come to mind.)

Lifetime Benefits for All the Additional Personal.

Additional ( Money losing Equipment to comply.)

Additional Maintenance Facilities and Maintenance Personal.

Train Parts, Track Maintenance, Equipment for Track Maintenance.

Training to institute new & Improved Regulations .
.
Payroll Clerks.

Benefit Administrative Staff.

Legal advise to insure compliance.

lost revenue imposed by price cap.

True cost would be more in the 12 to 14% level.
*example Fleet Mileage Automotive Legislation ( it all comes from the bottom line.)
.

(I can just see them standing there in the light now, staring at this, unable to move anything except their mouths and spew the same stuff out over and over.)

Take the guns away and only thing that will be spewing will be the tears from your eyes because you could not protect yourself from the person that is raping you.gov

Get a grip.

Damn bleeding heart liberals is why we are screwed in the first place.

Now play nice.

Originally Posted by Mike Schulz

Take the guns away and only thing that will be spewing will be the tears from your eyes because you could not protect yourself from the person that is raping you.gov

Get a grip.

Damn bleeding heart liberals is why we are screwed in the first place.

The people who screw the most people the most of the time are the people who call themselves conservatives and elect morons like 'W'. And then defend electing those morons until they themselves have been screwed by the person they elected too many times. Yet they are willing to make the same mistake again, and repeat it again and again, simply because they do not look at history: definition of being crazy - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Now that is "crazy".

Yep, there are some here to the extreme right, some here to the extreme left, and others like myself who hang around the middle knowing that the intelligent of each opposing party understand there is good in both, and that both extremes are bad.

Originally Posted by Mike Schulz

(

Get a grip.

Damn bleeding heart liberals is why we are screwed in the first place.

Now play nice.

Mike,

I am far from a bleeding heart liberal and am a strong believer The Framers of the Constitution meant what was written and signed .

This includes the separation of powers.

When one body of the Government is corrupted by graft or imposition of their own beliefs checks and balances are required to be implemented.

The early history of the railroads was an example of raw naked capitalism with no regard for human life, limb or property.

The extreme and prolonged failed policy shift that followed resulted in some needed changes and many that would have made Lenin proud.

We are a Nation that I am proud to be a part of that allows everyone a voice to express their views.

Tomorrow is the Day we Honor our Dead that Allows us this privilege, for we are a nation of Citizens and not Subjects.

Let us dwell on this in this time of remembrance.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

Mike,

I am far from a bleeding heart liberal and have a strong believe The Framers of the Constitution meant what was written and signed .

This includes the separation of powers.

When one body of the Government is corrupted by graft or imposition of their own believes checks and balances are required to be implemented.

The early history of the railroads was an example of raw naked capitalism with no regard for human life, limb or property.

The extreme and prolonged failed policy shift that followed resulted in some needed changes and many that would have made Lenin proud.

We are a Nation that I am proud to be a part of that allows everyone a voice to express their views.

Tomorrow is the Day we Honor our Dead that Allows us this privilege, for we are a nation of Citizens and not Subjects.

Let us dwell on this in this time of remembrance.

Beliefs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

We are a Nation that I am proud to be a part of that allows everyone a voice to express their views.
.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Beliefs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.
Even TED,
.