Thread: Obama Turning the Tide

Originally Posted by Markus Keller

Another God and country loving conservative gets busted cheating on his wife. At least this time it's with a woman. You know how those right wingers feel about equal rights for all.

Wow a politician is a sex scandal. That never happens. Top 10 Democrat Sex Scandals in Congress - HUMAN EVENTS Heck, the Elliot Spitzer affair didn't even make this list.
By the way, isn't this the guy that embarrassed the current administration and refused to take the stimulus money? And this comes out now.
Coincidence? I'll let others decide.

Some things Obama has done right so far:

1) Realizing that the unnecessary war in Iraq needs to come to an end, and move forward with a plan to do so.
2) Send more troops to Afghanistan.
3) Agree with it or not, he actually has a plan to turn the economy around.
4) Again, agree with it or not, he has a plan to improve health care. Our health care is currently run by the insurance companies. How many of them have you seen go out of business lately? People will say they don't want the govt between them and their health care, but I'd rather have that than the insurance companies between me and my health care. Every year, insurance premiums go up, coverage goes down, and more claims are denied.

Things he hasn't done so well:

1) He does not seem to be backing single payer health care. I believe this is the way to go. Albeit via taxes, we would be paying for our own health care, which we currently are anyway, except that the insurance companies are making HUGE profits.
2) Not sure why he wants to close Gitmo. Why can't the problems just be resolved there. Sounds like it's going to cost more to close it than to leave it open.

I know there are more items in both categories, but those are just a few off the top of my head.

Like Obama said, if it was easy, it would have been fixed a long time ago. This will take a while, some good things will happen, and some bad things will happen.

How many billions and billions of dollars did we spend monitoring those fools in Iraq for years and years. Everything the world did to monitor him he always made like he was actually hiding the mass weapon thing and how many countless times di he delay sites to be investigated like he was hiding things and how many times did he say that the Americans would die in a sea of glass (the big bombs that melt glass such as weapons of mass destruction) if we tried to take over their country. Weather it was good info or bad info he lead the world to believe that he was hidingn all kinds of nasty stuff.

As far as spending more billions and billions and billions of dollars monitoring him for all eternity and then when he died and his crazy ass sons to over monitoring them and the even crazier stuff they would have done. Also did you read my post above. Over 300,000 plus, plus, plus people in mass graves from his slaughter and thousands and thousands buried alive.

Could we or can we ever stop those folks from killing each other that have been killing each other for what, 7 or 8,000 years now, probably not. At the least we got the biggest nut case out of there and now even when we leave we can keep an eye on the next nut case and have easy acces back to blow the crap out of them.

Should we be the worlds monitor.......................Who else is there. Even the Russians are helping to supply the Taliban. Yes move are folks out but leave at least a strong influence there to help control the insane things that happen after we leave (mark my words). Move our men back into afganistan and move from one end of the country to the other again (the only way to do it). Leave a seriously heavy handed amount of men along the Pakistan border and move in and out as needed.

As far as health care. There is nothing the governemnt can do to get everyone health care and there is no plan and never will be for that. It would cost biullions and billions a year from yours and everyone elses pocket to do that. Tax medical benefite for those who get most of it paid for.....well......it is income. The only reason it was almost free from employers because there was a ban on pay increases back in the depression to hold cost down to the floundering economy so employers added health benefits in leu of raises. That time is long gone. The unions say don't tax OUR health benefits, they are already giving away to much. They have been over paid and over benefitted for all time and guess who pays for that US you and me when we buy a car. What a freaking joke.

What no one understands or does not understand, there is already someone else already paying for their sick days, holidays and health care alread.....YOU AN ME when we buiy any service or product coming from their company that they work for.

Why is it that everyone wants someone else to pay for their benefite and retirement and health care but they do not want to pay for everyone else.

This can go on and on and on and on. There is no magic pill for any of these items under discussion.

The useless uneeded war in Iraq.....We were already there. Fleets of ships and air craft and truck and tanks etc etc. Tens of thousands of troops and supplies and so on and so on and so on.

Afganistan..........................What.......... ................The Taliban>>>>>>>>>>>what......leave them in control..............You cannot be serious. Both those wars would have happened sooner or later, period. The problem with later would have had them better supplied and more American lives would have been waswted

I cannot believe the ifs , ands, and whats are still being talked about on this thread. I guess it is healthy to have such discussions but the IT WAS A BAD WAR FROM THE BEGINNING AND THERE WERE NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION ETC ETC ETC, really is the proverbial beating of the dead horse. It was absolutely innevitable that we would have been in both places anyway, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

The health care thing.....well.....give me free health care but I do not want to pay for anyone else.

Oh yeah. Part of that big health care discussion is to give illegal alliens free medical for all there hard work. Lets see.....Oh yeah....they chose to come here for that hard work because they would have made a fraction of the amount in there own country. Work is gone.........go home now. Don't hang out here so we can pay all their rents and mortgages and free health care and free food stamps.

WEARE ALREADY DOING THAT. IT IS TIME TO STOP. Our car companies and millions of others have no work but we are suppose to pay for them and their families in other coun tries when we cannot pay for our own....Seriously

I am done. I spent to much time in an unconditioned inspection this morning and was alread boiling and boiled some more on here.

Put controls on the big wigs and their multi millions for running companies into the ground and let us have the country back so WE THE PEOPLE can put it back together again. Humpty dumpty even got put back together again. We can do it.

I was for the quick bail out of the first fewq big banks and insurance companies to to keep the avalanche from happening. All the rest were just looking for a paycheck but were going to file anyway.

Every program the Dems have wanted to do for decades is trying to be blasted thru in a huge rush so no one has a say in it. I say bring an amendment or bail out to the table and let the people vote on it.

By the way. Before anyone comes back. I am not a Republican or a Democrat so do not put me in one of those happy boats.

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

Some things Obama has done right so far:

1) Realizing that the unnecessary war in Iraq needs to come to an end, and move forward with a plan to do so.

Too bad he did not support the very reason leaving has become possible. It was called the surge.

2) Send more troops to Afghanistan.

Agreed but these plans were already in the pipeline.

3) Agree with it or not, he actually has a plan to turn the economy around.

I not only disagree with it but consider it more of the same that hasn't worked in the past and on top of that it has been raised to a dangerous level.

4) Again, agree with it or not, he has a plan to improve health care. Our health care is currently run by the insurance companies. How many of them have you seen go out of business lately? People will say they don't want the govt between them and their health care, but I'd rather have that than the insurance companies between me and my health care. Every year, insurance premiums go up, coverage goes down, and more claims are denied.

Insurance premiums continue to rise because of govt. mandates and low medicare reimbursement rates forcing the companies to raise rates so you can subsidize the non payers and under payers with your premium. Obama's lack of support for tort reform also is a contributing factor that raise rates and forces doctors to order test in the hope of avoiding frivolous lawsuits.

Things he hasn't done so well:

1) He does not seem to be backing single payer health care. I believe this is the way to go. Albeit via taxes, we would be paying for our own health care, which we currently are anyway, except that the insurance companies are making HUGE profits.

Single payer systems are failing around the world.

2) Not sure why he wants to close Gitmo. Why can't the problems just be resolved there. Sounds like it's going to cost more to close it than to leave it open.

He is fulfilling a campaign promise made to his far left supporters.

I know there are more items in both categories, but those are just a few off the top of my head.

Like Obama said, if it was easy, it would have been fixed a long time ago. This will take a while, some good things will happen, and some bad things will happen.

Yes the problems we face are not easy.
The politicians are masters at kicking the can down the road for someone else to deal with but eventually someone has to pay the price.

I don't see how any of Obama's plans face this reality as he is borrowing and spending $Trillions that will have to be paid back at interest. The risk is that as soon as those who buy our debt refuse to buy anymore, the game is over.

Being originally from Canada, I know that single payer works very well there. Where is it not working?

Insurance premiums rise because of a lack of regulation. They are allowed to make ridiculous profits, while not providing adequate coverages. People are denied coverage for "pre-existing conditions" more than ever.

30 years ago, the average CEO made 30-40 times that of the average worker. Now the average CEO makes 300-400 times that of the average worker. Reaganomics at work!!!

One vote for removal of this thread, it's nonsense.

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

Being originally from Canada, I know that single payer works very well there. Where is it not working?

Insurance premiums rise because of a lack of regulation. They are allowed to make ridiculous profits, while not providing adequate coverages. People are denied coverage for "pre-existing conditions" more than ever.

30 years ago, the average CEO made 30-40 times that of the average worker. Now the average CEO makes 300-400 times that of the average worker. Reaganomics at work!!!

OK class warrior. Who are you to decide how much someone should be paid?

Buyer Beware: The Failure of Single-Payer Health Care

Canadians begin waiting for surgery before getting on the “wait list”

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

Being originally from Canada, I know that single payer works very well there. Where is it not working?

Insurance premiums rise because of a lack of regulation. They are allowed to make ridiculous profits, while not providing adequate coverages. People are denied coverage for "pre-existing conditions" more than ever.

30 years ago, the average CEO made 30-40 times that of the average worker. Now the average CEO makes 300-400 times that of the average worker. Reaganomics at work!!!

Why don't you get off your ^*^% and become a CEO.

Will smith makes 100M a movie and the guy that brings them lunch makes $20bucks an HR... What an out rages

This has got to be one of the ^&^^%&^ things i have ever saw on this site...

Sorry bub get a life... (LIFE IS NOT FAIR)

I'm better looking then you deal with it...

Best

Ron

More evidence that the tide is turning:
NOT

U.S. Economy: Jobless Claims Rise in Sign Labor Market Stagnant

Originally Posted by Michael Larson

OK class warrior. Who are you to decide how much someone should be paid?

I really don't have that much problem with someone making that much money, as long as it's not by taking advantage of others. But they should have to pay a reasonable amount of tax.

$20/hr for getting lunch....where do I apply.

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

I really don't have that much problem with someone making that much money, as long as it's not by taking advantage of others. But they should have to pay a reasonable amount of tax.

They do Brent

Michael,

Your stats are based on total dollars taxed. Of course this then shows that the people who have high incomes pay a large portion of the overall tax. I just think that 28% should not be the highest tax level. Now I also do not think that it needs to go back to the 70% that it was years ago, but I think it could go up to 50% or so. If I made $10 million per year, I would have no problem paying Uncle Sam $5 million of it.

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

Michael,

Your stats are based on total dollars taxed. Of course this then shows that the people who have high incomes pay a large portion of the overall tax. I just think that 28% should not be the highest tax level. Now I also do not think that it needs to go back to the 70% that it was years ago, but I think it could go up to 50% or so. If I made $10 million per year, I would have no problem paying Uncle Sam $5 million of it.

If you made $10 million why would you do that?

Did you earn it or not?

What gives the government to right to take more money from one citizen than another.

Does the high tax paying citizen receive more or fewer government services?

Doesn't a flatter tax system make more sense?

I would have no problem with everyone paying the same percentage on income.

Would you?

I don't think anyone "earns" $10 million per year. They have been fortunate enough to have a talent that allows them to make that income. I don't think the sports athlete that makes $10 million does 100 times the work someone who makes $100k. He/she is fortunate to have that talent. Same goes for the CEO's.

Now if someone comes up with a cure for cancer, I would say that they deserve to make $10 million or so.

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

.
If I made $10 million per year, I would have no problem paying Uncle Sam $5 million of it.

.
That sounds like the old Joke,

If I had 2 million I'd give you 1.

If I had 2 cars I'd give you 1.
*ect.

Can I have 1 of your pigs.

No ! You know I only have 2.
* never meet a liberal that had a problem My Money would not Fix.
.

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

I don't think anyone "earns" $10 million per year. They have been fortunate enough to have a talent that allows them to make that income. I don't think the sports athlete that makes $10 million does 100 times the work someone who makes $100k. He/she is fortunate to have that talent. Same goes for the CEO's.

Now if someone comes up with a cure for cancer, I would say that they deserve to make $10 million or so.

Trust me, if hiring a ball player for $10 Million did not produce a return on investment he would not have received the offer.

Never forget that sports is a business.

Would you be in favor of capping ball players salaries?

I fully understand why they make that kind of money, and I don't have a problem with it. Just think they should not have a problem paying a higher tax rate.

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

I fully understand why they make that kind of money, and I don't have a problem with it. Just think they should not have a problem paying a higher tax rate.

Why are you so willing to confiscate what someone else has earned.

If I make a $1 Million and pay 28% it's $280,000.

If you make $10 Million and pay 10% it's $2,800,000 but by your own admission you think you should pay $5,000,000.

It doesn't seem fair to me but I'm not a progressive.

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

I don't think anyone "earns" $10 million per year. They have been fortunate enough to have a talent that allows them to make that income. I don't think the sports athlete that makes $10 million does 100 times the work someone who makes $100k. He/she is fortunate to have that talent. Same goes for the CEO's.

Now if someone comes up with a cure for cancer, I would say that they deserve to make $10 million or so.

Dude you need to go live in another country. ever things you are stating is fascism/socialism with a capitalist veneer. This is not FREEDOM. And i do not need you to tell me how much i can make, how i can make it and how i need to spend it ( thank you very much )

I like my Freedom to come and go any way i want...

You all your socialism buddy need to pac-your bags and go live together. then you could tell each other what to do when to do it how to do it and then you would find out just what a mess that type of system offers.

best

Ron

I understand that some people would not want to pay that much. I honestly would not have a problem with it. My view is that I'm still making more money than I realistically need.

I wish I did make that kind of money. I can think of a lot of lesser fortunate people that I would be able to help out.

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

Dude you need to go live in another country. ever things you are stating is fascism/socialism with a capitalist veneer. This is not FREEDOM. And i do not need you to tell me how much i can make, how i can make it and how i need to spend it ( thank you very much )

This is a socialist country. Maybe not as much so as some other countries, but it still is.

So I guess you don't want a govt run military, police, fire, etc. These are all "social" services. Guess, you can take care of yourself!!!

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

This is a socialist country. Maybe not as much so as some other countries, but it still is.

So I guess you don't want a govt run military, police, fire, etc. These are all "social" services. Guess, you can take care of yourself!!!

Baloney.

The military is constitutionally mandated.

Police and fire protection are not the responsibility of the federal government.

BTW- if you are convinced yo make more than you jneed send it to Ron and I to put to good use.

I am all for a flat tax

Go for it

If the part time wlamrt folks pay 10% it would not kill them. If someone makes 100,000,000 they pay ten million. They don't get hurt. The governmrnt would have to be looking all over the place to spend all the money. As it sands now a very large majority of folks do not even pay a federal tax

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

I am all for a flat tax

Go for it

If the part time wlamrt folks pay 10% it would not kill them. If someone makes 100,000,000 they pay ten million. They don't get hurt. The governmrnt would have to be looking all over the place to spend all the money. As it sands now a very large majority of folks do not even pay a federal tax

Agreed. Far too many people pay little or no taxes and so have no skin in the game.

They are more than willing to vote for politicians that promises them goodies.

Constitutionally mandated, but still govt run.

I said I wish I made that much money. Unfortunately, I'm no where near.

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

Constitutionally mandated, but still govt run.

I said I wish I made that much money. Unfortunately, I'm no where near.

That doesn't make them socialist.

My view is that I'm still making more money than I realistically need.

Well send what ever you have extra then.

Originally Posted by Michael Larson

Agreed. Far too many people pay little or no taxes and so have no skin in the game.

They are more than willing to vote for politicians that promises them goodies.

Although I don't agree with a 10% flat tax, I fully agree with this quote!!!!

Wow, that only took 10 or so posts to find some common ground!!!

Here is something for all, Enjoy!!

http://www.850koa.com/cc-common/news/videos/player.html?mid=Reuters/6-09/Obama-Jib-Jab-6-22.asf&pimg=

This a better video cklick on this one!!


YouTube - He's Barack Obama

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

Being originally from Canada, I know that single payer works very well there. Where is it not working?

Insurance premiums rise because of a lack of regulation. They are allowed to make ridiculous profits, while not providing adequate coverages. People are denied coverage for "pre-existing conditions" more than ever.

30 years ago, the average CEO made 30-40 times that of the average worker. Now the average CEO makes 300-400 times that of the average worker. Reaganomics at work!!!

BC: You can never win an argument with an ignorant man.

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

BC: You can never win an argument with an ignorant man.

A.M. You can never win an argument with someone who refuses to believe facts either but sure is fun making them look silly.

More Facts to chew on or ignore as you adjust your Obama blinders.

PERSONAL INCOME AND OUTLAYS
May 2009

"Private wage and salary disbursements decreased $12.4 billion in May, compared with a decrease of $0.7 billion in April"

Keep telling yourself it's getting better folks.

ML: Keep telling yourself you are getting smarter.

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

ML: Keep telling yourself you are getting smarter.

Aaron, you make me look smarter every day. Thanks for this thread.

To the rest of you. Please notice that Aaron does not defend his assertions or engage in honest debate but rather engages in name calling.

Facts are troublesome to to certain people. Go figure.

Thanks for this thread.

ML: My pleasure. It was the least I could do. I tried uploading bananas and inntertubes for your playground, but alas the poor bandwidth!
Oy veh!

Quate: Michael Larson.
Aaron, you make me look smarter every day. Thanks for this thread.
To the rest of you. Please notice that Aaron does not defend his assertions or engage in honest debate but rather engages in name calling

Reply

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

ML: My pleasure. It was the least I could do. I tried uploading bananas and inntertubes for your playground, but alas the poor bandwidth!
Oy veh!

Bananas Aaron thats the best you can reply with

No debate, no ideas, no facts.

3 Strikes your out

Best

Ron

Quate: Michael Larson.
Aaron, you make me look smarter every day. Thanks for this thread.
To the rest of you. Please notice that Aaron does not defend his assertions or engage in honest debate but rather engages in name calling

Reply

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

ML: My pleasure. It was the least I could do. I tried uploading bananas and inntertubes for your playground, but alas the poor bandwidth!
Oy veh!

Bananas Aaron thats the best you can reply with

No debate, no ideas, no facts.

3 Strikes your out

Best

Ron

I had to check the web address, for a second I thought I was over at the INACH playground! Now 102 post of dribble.

Originally Posted by Michael Larson

More Facts to chew on or ignore as you adjust your Obama blinders.

"Private wage and salary disbursements decreased $12.4 billion in May, compared with a decrease of $0.7 billion in April"

You only pulled one stat out of that report. It also states:

"Real DPI increased 1.6 percent in May, compared with an increase of 1.2 percent in April. Real PCE increased 0.2 percent, in contrast to a decrease of 0.1 percent in April."

Also, see:

Personal income jumped in May - Jun. 26, 2009

Bottom line is we could easily go out and pull stats to argue both sides.

Here's another view of "The One's" plan.

Education Gets A Failing Grade...America spends untold billions of dollars every year on primary and secondary education, but the National Association of Manufacturers say that the biggest problem hindering a strong and expanding manufacturing base in Americas is the lack of knowledge and skills of the American worker.. the human product of our education system is not competent enough to perform the work necessary for America to compete effectively in the global market...we are graduating students who can’t read, can’t figure, can’t spell, and can’t write a comprehensible paragraph...and a high percentage are dropping out, and not even finishing school ...

American education started going bad in the l960s, and got progressively worse with time...ill-conceived ideas like “open classrooms” and “new math” and “mainstreaming” mentally handicapped and slow learners and rambunctious children in with other students, and any number of other nonsensical initiatives dreamed up by the new breed of teachers coming out of our socially-brainwashing colleges, and “progressive liberal “ administrators, all of whom, under the socialistic guidance and direction of the NEA (the national teachers union) brought ill-advised and destructive changes to American education... instead of an institution of learning, it was transformed into a vehicle for “social change”...

We are paying for a product we are not getting, and the only thing our governmental and societal leaders can think to do is to pour more money into a failing system...and more government bureaucrats to administer it...teachers and administrators, and their union hierarchy, have been blaming poor pay, excessive class sizes, inattentive parents, poor facilities, and any number of other rationalizations for their poor performance for decades...but it’s THEM... they are the cause of our education dilemma...let there be no doubt about that...aided and abetted by Boards of Education, whose members are more concerned with their own political futures instead of student progress, the NEA has diminished America, more effectively than any foreign invading force could ever accomplish... as the old adage said “the proof is in the pudding”...

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

You only pulled one stat out of that report. It also states:

"Real DPI increased 1.6 percent in May, compared with an increase of 1.2 percent in April. Real PCE increased 0.2 percent, in contrast to a decrease of 0.1 percent in April."

Also, see:

Personal income jumped in May - Jun. 26, 2009

Bottom line is we could easily go out and pull stats to argue both sides.

Not really and I understand why you may be confused. The MSM and the administration are spinning these numbers to make to think the recession is really over when it is not.

The DPI also includes money that the government either taxed or borrowed to get and then hand out and is not the result of people actually working and receiving a paycheck. It does not reflect an increase in economic activity or growth.

Sad but true. On top of that, 12% of mortgages are in default and that means they are not making house payments. That can't be good.

The number I quoted is relevant and the most important when indicating a turnaround. Read it again.

"Private wage and salary disbursements decreased $12.4 billion in May, compared with a decrease of $0.7 billion in April"

That is an astounding change month over month and it reflects the change in what employers are actually paying those with jobs.



Note:some of the above info is from a blog called the market-ticker.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

I had to check the web address, for a second I thought I was over at the INACH playground! Now 102 post of dribble.

I for one did not consider it dribble when you posted this:

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

A few more observations:

Did it not bother anyone when the President of France told Obama that he was trying to provide and do to much and that he needed to slow down? France the most socialized country in the World was saying Obama was doing to much!

Why is China starting to cash in their US dollars for gold?

Why have mortgage interest rates started to rise?

Did it not bother you when Obama apologized to his middle east audience last week for the US reaction to 9/11?

Originally Posted by Michael Larson

The DPI also includes money that the government either taxed or borrowed to get and then hand out and is not the result of people actually working and receiving a paycheck. It does not reflect an increase in economic activity or growth.

You are correct. Well, almost. Some of this money is, like you say, govt "handouts", like unemployment checks (again, thank you to Reaganomics). But some of it is also from the Stimulus which is going out in paychecks to those workers employed by programs funded by Stimulus dollars. Some of it is also the tax reduction for those making under $250K.

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

You are correct. Well, almost. Some of this money is, like you say, govt "handouts", like unemployment checks (again, thank you to Reaganomics). But some of it is also from the Stimulus which is going out in paychecks to those workers employed by programs funded by Stimulus dollars. Some of it is also the tax reduction for those making under $250K.

If it is is reflected in paychecks then there should not be a dramatic reduction in money paid out by private employers.

The larger point is that there is no increase in the GDP or any indication of recovery from growth in the economy.

BTW-most of the "Stimulus" $$$ were back loaded and that money is not yet in the economy for the most part.

Even though it was sold as going for "shovel ready projects" the reality is far different.

Maybe this will help

"
"We all talked about 'shovel-ready' since September and assumed it was a whole lot of paving and building when, in fact, that's not the case," said Chris Whatley, the Washington director of the Council of State Governments, a trade group for state governments. He estimates states will get three times more money for education than for transportation.

Two-thirds of recovery money that flows directly to states will go toward health care."


And this:


StimulusWatch.org

As to the tax reduction that is more smoke and mirrors.

You cannot pay for all the massive borrowing since Obama took office without increasing taxes and fees. The math speaks loudly.

Originally Posted by Michael Larson

The larger point is that there is no increase in the GDP or any indication of recovery from growth in the economy.

The larger point is that the Bush economic divebomb has been leveled off. Actually, new construction is up. How about that, I was able to bring relevence to this website!!!

Originally Posted by Michael Larson

Even though it was sold as going for "shovel ready projects" the reality is far different.

Yeah, it does take time, but I've already seen a lot of new bridge replacement construction projects here in the Atlanta area.

Originally Posted by Michael Larson

Two-thirds of recovery money that flows directly to states will go toward health care."

Don't forget that Bush is the one that got us into all this mess with his unjustified multi-trillion dollar Iraq war, and total lack of economic sense (who would cut taxes during a war???). And how convenient that he didn't include the cost of the wars in the budget, so his huge deficit didn't look as huge as it really is.

Let's face it, the Stimulus would not have been necessary if Bush wouldn't have been such a disastrous president.

I have to admit that I'm a little worried about the cost of the Stimulus package. But with what he was handed, Obama had to do something. We'll just have to wait and see how things work out.

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

The larger point is that the Bush economic divebomb has been leveled off. Actually, new construction is up. How about that, I was able to bring relevence to this website!!!

We can only hope.

Don't forget that Bush is the one that got us into all this mess with his unjustified multi-trillion dollar Iraq war, and total lack of economic sense (who would cut taxes during a war???). And how convenient that he didn't include the cost of the wars in the budget, so his huge deficit didn't look as huge as it really is.

And who raises them in severe recession?

Let's face it, the Stimulus would not have been necessary if Bush wouldn't have been such a disastrous president.

BS It goes back much farther than Bushes two terms.

I have to admit that I'm a little worried about the cost of the Stimulus package. But with what he was handed, Obama had to do something. We'll just have to wait and see how things work out.

Politicians of every stripe always have to "do something".
They just can't leave things alone.

Obama may have been handed a pile of crap but he is making the pile much higher.

I think this chart says it all.

Originally Posted by Michael Larson

I think this chart says it all.

Umm, taxes have been cut for anyone making less than $250K. Taxes should be raised on the mega-rich (but we've been through that already).

I agree that it goes back further than Bush. Back to the originator of Reaganomics. You know, out of control capitalism, which just makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer.

That graph is exactly what I was talking about when I said that the trillions of dollars for the Iraq war were not included in the Bush budget. Include that and things look pretty similar.

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

Umm, taxes have been cut for anyone making less than $250K. Taxes should be raised on the mega-rich (but we've been through that already).

I agree that it goes back further than Bush. Back to the originator of Reaganomics. You know, out of control capitalism, which just makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer.

That graph is exactly what I was talking about when I said that the trillions of dollars for the Iraq war were not included in the Bush budget. Include that and things look pretty similar.

If you believe taxes have been cut for all below $250K when did that happen?

The chart is what it is. There is no missing Iraq money.

Are you saying the CBO is publishing a a false chart for the Bush years?

Please tell me what you are talking about. Got Link?

Capitalism is not what is destroying us but socialism is trying to and that goes back to at least FDR.

This graph shows just the Iraq war budget by year.

http://zfacts.com/p/447.html

Here's some interesting reading on "emergency appropriations" for the war (and other things).

The Trillion-Dollar War: The War on Terror is now more expensive than Vietnam or World War I—but the dishonest way Washington is paying for it may prove costliest of all. - Reason Magazine

Brent,

I get it you are against the Iraq war and the associated spending.

But your claim that funny numbers are in the chart I posted have not been demonstrated.

The chart reflects very real deficit spending numbers by Bush and Obama as scored by the CBO.

Maybe this will help you understand the problem with Obama's plans.

Of course, there is no Devil. But, if there were, he would certainly have made me do this . . .

Rush (the Big, Fat Idiot) Limbaugh

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

Of course, there is no Devil. But, if there were, he would certainly have made me do this . . .

Rush (the Big, Fat Idiot) Limbaugh

Do you have anything intelligent to say in the thread you started or do you just desire to share your fantasies?

Obama = O.ne B.ig A.ss M.istake A.merica
The Silver Bear Cafe
YouTube - Obama Budget Cuts Visualization

A.D you are funny, a true lefty who can never give facts and wants to twist the truth. You sheep is what going to take down this great country. Us herders will round you up and put you back in your place

You can't spend your way out of poverty.

I still have hope for the Pres but it's looking real tuff, lots of wind and spending.

The number one threat to this country is not terrorism.

The number one threat to this country is liberalism.

Have you noticed none of the lefties has replied about the two video's.........

Originally Posted by Mike Schulz

Have you noticed none of the lefties has replied about the two video's.........

Oh, sorry. Yeah, I thought Aaron's Rush video was great!!! What a slimeball.

And yours.....you mean the one showing the Democratic representative exposing the stupidity of federal reserve inspector general Coleman? I love that one!!! I would have liked Obama to fire her a$$ immediately after hearing that interview. She's been on the job for over 2 years now, so you'd think she should be on top of things.

And the other one is more righty finger pointing about spending. Yeah, we know the budget is huge. Funny how the righties were absolutely mute for the past 8 years of Bush's trillion plus spending on Iraq. Really got our money's worth there, didn't we?

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

And the other one is more righty finger pointing about spending.

Yeah, we know the budget is huge.

Funny how the righties were absolutely mute for the past 8 years of Bush's trillion plus spending on Iraq.

.
Iraq War 684 Billion ( not Trillions )

Obama 750 Billion Bailout. ( So Far )

Freddie & Fannie $$$$ ????

Plus AIG, GM, Chrysler, Banks, ect.

If You want to See The Very Best Case for Nationalized Health Care Visit Your Local VA Hospital.

The Iraq war is not over. It will go well over the Trillion mark, and being Bush started it, I account that wasted money on him.

Most of those other numbers are from Bush's reign. For some reason the righties are trying to tie Obama to them. I will give you that Obama did vote for them while a senator under Bush though.

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

The Iraq war is not over. It will go well over the Trillion mark, and being Bush started it, I account that wasted money on him.

Most of those other numbers are from Bush's reign. For some reason the righties are trying to tie Obama to them. I will give you that Obama did vote for them while a senator under Bush though.

.
At the start of this thread Obama with less than 6 months is turning the Tide.

Check the Latest Jobs Decline Numbers.

I can Hardly Wait Till Next Year.
lefties Spending Someone Else's $$$$$$$.

Your Guy is in Charge Let's See What He can do.

I surely hope He can ( We are all betting The Farm on it. )
.

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

The Iraq war is not over. It will go well over the Trillion mark, and being Bush started it, I account that wasted money on him.

Most of those other numbers are from Bush's reign. For some reason the righties are trying to tie Obama to them. I will give you that Obama did vote for them while a senator under Bush though.

Teds short rant

Stop with the Bush thing. Make believe George died. He is out of the picture. In your own admitance you stated Obama voted for half the garbage that took place along with most of the other Dems.

As far as the Iraq war when are any of you going to get the fact that if it was not George, while he was President then it would have been Obama getting the US into it. It was absolutely positively inevitable that we would have been in Iraq and Afganistan sooner or later. It WAS only a matter of time.

As far as all the rest of the making of this recession it is a natural occurance that it would have also happened no matter who was in office. The economy corrects itself over time and that is a given.

It is the DEMS and Repubs or conservatives and liberals that are responcible for all of this and if you folks that do not realise this there is no help.

And my disclaimer.

I am not a Dem or a Repub so don't even go there. As a matter of fact it is everyone around the world that got everyone else in the world into this. If you did not notice the rest of the world was on a ride to the bitter end to gain as much financially until it crashed and fell off the tracks.

No one party and no one person or groups of people around the world that was respocible for this. It was everyone making any money and wanting more and a better life style that was responsible for this. If you don't like this crash, just sit back, Waite, breath easy, get plenty of nutrition and hide your money under your mattress because the next one is going to make this one look like you lost your .10 before you bought your piece of candy. It will be a crash like you never saw.

There is not enough money to be made or taxes to be paid to pay back the entitlements to be paid out and loans to pay back and health care programs and energy programs etc etc etc

With the overwhelming restrictions that are slowly being set in financing everyone will be doing magic tricks on the street corner to survive.

If you think all the poor in the US are gpoing to be brought up the ladder from all these programs...think again. With out upper levels making money to put the poor folks to work or for them to contract work from they will be far worse off than they were before.

I am personally scared to death of the future economic situation that is taking place in this country.

With all due respect Mr. Miller, are you brain dead or smoking dope?

Don Sweet
City Building Inspector

Originally Posted by Brent Crouse

And the other one is more righty finger pointing about spending. Yeah, we know the budget is huge. Funny how the righties were absolutely mute for the past 8 years of Bush's trillion plus spending on Iraq. Really got our money's worth there, didn't we?

I have breaking news for you, Bush was not a conservative and conservatives deplored the reckless spending on Medicare part D and the expansion of the SCHIP program.

I was not mute about Bush and I now find it hilarious the lefties for the most part are giving Obama a pass on his spending even though it is an order of magnitude worse.

Hope and change baby.

Say a Michael do you not find it funny that. you and i as conservative. in a country like ours and in this day and age that we need to explain to people what a conservative is.

Some will say they are very smart and they are in many ways. but the understanding of what a conservative is just goes over there heads.


Points of a conservative.

1. You keep what you make.
2. Help your brother from your own pocket.
3. Support our country the USA first and above all.
4. Freedom of speech.
5. Own your own land.

These 5 give you the foundation of a conservative.

Now is there one person that say these things should not be so?

If you can say that these 5 things are bad then you are not a conservative.

An odd thing about these 5 thing.

They are all from the ten Commandments

Best

Ron

Here's A.D. way of thinking. A.D. jumps out of a plane without a parachute. Half way down he thinks to himself "so far so good".

Originally Posted by Ron Bibler

Say a Michael do you not find it funny that. you and i as conservative. in a country like ours and in this day and age that we need to explain to people what a conservative is.

One of the reasons for that is the left painted George bush as a conservative even thought he was far from it.

When he ran in 2000 most conservatives where very concerned that was no where near conservative enough. That turned out to be true but it did not prevent the left from railing against him as some evil conservative.

When he got in bed with

Ted Kennedy on education
promoted amnesty for illegals
passed Medicare part D(drugs)
refused to use his veto pen until vary late in his term
decided to go along to get along

Most conservatives where appalled.

I think he did an outstanding job in protecting this country post 9/11 but the rest not so much.