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  1. #1
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    The insanity is going to far with the Obama Whitehouse.

    Literally trying to exclude Fox news from about everything they can as far as access.

    Also the literal attack on a news agency because the company voices their opinion and the White house does not like it and does not want any other news agency to follow suit. Humana Insurance literally given a spanking because it was not following along with the White house wishes and whims.

    Tell me folks. Is this not the most blatant power grabbing and condeming anyone that stands in their way. Whats next? News agency heads dissapearing and never seen or heard from again. Does this start to resemble anything you have seen in other countries.

    The "you are either part of the solution or part of the problem. If you do not fall in line you will be punished" is getting way out of control.

    If you want to reply, you better be agreeing with me or I will strike out so harshly that you will never be seen as credible or heard from again. I guess when I say it so bluntly it does sound a bit absurd...Huh

    Does anyone else find things getting a bit to deep. I have not known any President to be so bold as to look in the camera and say "I could care less if you like my programs or not. This is what I am going to do and you don't agree then tough crap for you. You will be swallowed up and spit out."


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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    I love it that the other networks would not agree to go along with the Whitehouse and their request to exclude Fox. Not to mention that the NY Times and The Washington Post commended Fox for beating them to the news scoop on Acorn.

    I must admit that I do have Fox News on the TV when I'm in the office at home. For some reason I have never heard them report anything that has never been true. I don't think same can be said of any of the other networks.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish


  4. #4
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Corn Walker View Post

    I am not sure of your posting as to which way you are leaning but, Balkin?

    Talk about partisanship and all his .edu buddies.

    Everyone knows the basis of many on Fox News. Fox and Friends and their very strong conservitive view points and Shawn Hannity the wining little loud mouth that cannot think past his own brain cells. As far as most of Fox News I find them pretty fair and ballanced.

    I don't think anyone ever said outside Fox News that many in the organization are not leaning or falling over conservatives.

    The problem I see with the Obama admin is it is not just Fox that they attack. The President himself will take an unpresidential jab at anyone who utters a word in disagreement of his policies.

    I have never seen a President so blatant. So what if Fox does not agree with him and touts their view point against his policies. Look at many "news organizations" that fall to their knees and wash his feet. I don't see the admin saying "Come on now folks. We must be fair and balanced. I mean you are a news org and you must not show favoritism".

    This whole admin is about making me ill. Talk about cocky. What does he have to be cocky about. He blames the "Other admin for everything" He blames none on his own party.

    He truly believes he is some kind of savior and he can fix it all if everyone shuts up and lets him do as he wishes.

    What he can do is continue to spend money for bail outs. On top of that he can try to enact every plan the Dems always wanted to no matter how much it will cost. What he can do is constantly talk about not adding money to the deficit when that is what is going to happen with all his plans. If he does not actually call it a tax, and he said he would have no new taxes, then he will just outright make this person or that pay for his plans. How about a 500 billion dollar cut in benefits foor the older folks. Is he kidding and it is a sick joke or what. Does he not realise how manyb are about to start slamming into the old folk realm. That is what he should

    He is not a great Pres by any standards so far in my eyes and I seriously doubt he ever will be. His is in fact a cocky arrogant man with control issues that he needs looking into. He also needs to fess up and tell everyone straight out that no matter what the cost to anyone he is going to do everything in his absolute rule and reign of power.

    He also needs to apologize to the masses about in times of such dire needs and unemployment around the 10% mark that he is causing one of the all time, in any Presidents reign, spending gluts that all US citizens will be paying for, for decades and more than likely for ever.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Ahhh heck. All he needs to do to fix it is invite everybody to his back yard for a beer.

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  6. #6
    Edward Loughran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    No matter who you are, if you cannot directly refute something that is said about you or your associates then there is probably some truth in what has been said. Not facing your accuser only highlights their position.
    In 15 years when all is said and done - I think Obama will be thought of as a President equal to Carter in his administration and accomplishments.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Ted,

    That's it for striking back? Did you even read the Balkin piece? If you did, you'd realize that his point was somewhat oblique to yours - that trends in journalism and partisanship come and go, and that Fox News isn't "illegitimate" so much as they are playing by a different set of rules, rules we've seen before and are now seeing again. Regardless of liberal world view, Balkin's piece shows that he's not only thought about the events, but considered them in their historical context.

    Your response, on the other hand, doesn't show any intelligence or betray thought or consideration at all. Instead it's just more of the same ignorant, partisan vitriol and spleen venting typical of so many Republicans during this administration. It's just as ill informed and baseless as most of the criticism leveled by Democrats during the preceding eight years.

    I'd be happy to engage you further, but first I'd have to be convinced I was interacting with someone intelligent. So far you've fallen far short of the mark.

    Peace.

    Last edited by Corn Walker; 10-24-2009 at 09:02 AM. Reason: further consideration and ad hominem

  8. #8
    soloon mesfi's Avatar
    soloon mesfi Guest

    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Come on people. An organizations that organizes protests and clearly takes sides on the political arena and call themselves fair and balanced? It really amazes me people are willing to side with a guy who is not even a citizen of us and all he cares is to fatten his pockets at the cost of spreading misleading information is beyond me. That is why Fox's defence is always ratings. Since when is rating equated with quality. If Fox takes the word fair and balanced and state simply that they are not a news agency but a station with the agenda of being an outlet for conservative ideology I think that is ok. The problem is one can't have it both.


  9. #9
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    [QUOTE=soloon mesfi;106437Come on people. An organizations that organizes protests and clearly takes sides on the political arena and call themselves fair and balanced?

    [B]What did Fox News Organizes ?[/B]


    [QUOTE=soloon mesfi;106437
    It really amazes me people are willing to side with a guy who is not even a citizen of us and all he cares is to fatten his pockets at the cost of spreading misleading information is beyond me.
    .[/QUOTE]


    Name the Misleading information please.

    That is why Fox's defence is always ratings. Since when is rating equated with quality.

    Rating are the amount of people te watch the Fox News program.

    They are on top. More people are of the same mind set...



    [QUOTE=soloon mesfi;106437
    If Fox takes the word fair and balanced and state simply that they are not a news agency but a station with the agenda of being an outlet for conservative ideology I think that is ok.
    The problem is one can't have it both.[/QUOTE]


    Why not... Are you saying you don't understand what you see on TV.
    OR ARE YOU TRYING TO PROTECT THE LITTLE PEOPLE... L.O.L.


    Get a life...


    Best

    Ron


  10. #10
    soloon mesfi's Avatar
    soloon mesfi Guest

    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    First of all if you want to have a polite civilzed discussion, it is ok. Lets not go into who has life or not, because you don't know my personal life neither do I. To address your point about so many people watching fox, is misleading by itself. The people who watch a particular show religiously in my opinion are people who do not want different opinions, thus they believe whatever info they are fed. Second, Jerry Springer had a lot of people watching his show and he had great rating, does it mean that his show is great and informative because a bunch of losers who tend to gravitate towards that kind of trash are watching his show in droves. Regarding the organizations that fox was prompting, did you easliy forgot the tea parties and 9/12 by Beck. Is that jounalism in your opinion? Lastly, I don't beliive that the American media has done a great job recenly, it seems everything is equated on how much quick profit is done quickly and instead of providing the reality everyone is bending to satify the points of view of its audience, hence good ratings and larger profit. In that case I am not happy with the other networks either, they are not better of doing job, that is only my opinion.


  11. #11
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Quote Originally Posted by soloon mesfi View Post
    To address your point about so many people watching fox, is misleading by itself. The people who watch a particular show religiously in my opinion are people who do not want different opinions, thus they believe whatever info they are fed. Second,

    What you are saying is that you do not want people to watch FOX News.

    You do not want Fox news to have its own Opinions.

    What happened to free speech



    Jerry Springer had a lot of people watching his show and he had great rating, does it mean that his show is great and informative because a bunch of losers who tend to gravitate towards that kind of trash are watching his show in droves.

    I don't think Jerry Springers rating are even close to FOX NEWS.
    BAD Analogy...


    Regarding the organizations that fox was prompting, did you easliy forgot the tea parties and 9/12 by Beck.

    Glen Beck nor Fox news started the Tea parties... Do even known what the tea parties were about?

    Its was about Republicans and democrats in Congress spending to much money. Had nothing to do with FOX NEWS.

    Out side of they FOX NEWS and C-span were the only NEWS organization covering the TEA Parties...



    I don't beliive that the American media has done a great job recenly, it seems everything is equated on how much quick profit is done quickly and instead of providing the reality everyone is bending to satify the points of view of its audience, hence good ratings and larger profit. In that case I am not happy with the other networks either, they are not better of doing job, that is only my opinion.
    This country is founded on Free speech. open markets and privet property rights.

    Yes the news media needs to make a profit. they can sell what ever they want and call it what ever they want and feed it to any one that will watch it and it people are dump enough to believe it then there you go.

    I watch FOX NEWS. and I have no Idea what you are talking about. I look at what they say. I look up what they say. I check thing out to see if what they say is true. have you ever check on any think to see if what you are saying is true.

    You were incorrect on the TEA PARTIES. LOOK IT UP... find out who started the tea parties and what state it was started in and if that person was at the tea parties. Then get back to me... Check it out...

    Best

    Ron


  12. #12
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Corn Walker View Post
    Ted,

    That's it for striking back? Did you even read the Balkin piece? If you did, you'd realize that his point was somewhat oblique to yours - that trends in journalism and partisanship come and go, and that Fox News isn't "illegitimate" so much as they are playing by a different set of rules, rules we've seen before and are now seeing again. Regardless of liberal world view, Balkin's piece shows that he's not only thought about the events, but considered them in their historical context.

    Your response, on the other hand, doesn't show any intelligence or betray thought or consideration at all. Instead it's just more of the same ignorant, partisan vitriol and spleen venting typical of so many Republicans during this administration. It's just as ill informed and baseless as most of the criticism leveled by Democrats during the preceding eight years.

    I'd be happy to engage you further, but first I'd have to be convinced I was interacting with someone intelligent. So far you've fallen far short of the mark.

    Peace.
    Seriously

    I post complaints as to what the Admin is doing.

    You posted someone Else's viewpoint and history lesson. Not about what Obama is doing and burying us daily but someone Else's history lesson.

    I give a view of what is going on and you give someone Else's.

    Intelligent level of me ??? You do not and I could not explain to you of IQs at a level of which you have no understanding.

    Take your insulting arrogant self and stick yourself where the sun does not shine. Being out in the open and light is not a good place for someone like yourself to be.

    You see Corny

    I see things for what they are. You see things for what others think they are. You are the one having problems with giving your own personal opinion, not me. One must learn to weigh and balance things they are hearing and seeing. To follow behind another speakers view is not having your own level of intelligence or expertise but hiding behind theirs.

    If you have ever read any of my political view points you would have seen that I am not a Conservative or liberal or a democrat or republican. I not only see Fox from time to time but also CNN and many other outlets for news and journalism. I form my own opinions and when I see a wining little brat like S Hannity I pretty much ignore him because I learn nothing from his absolute Conservative stance and leaning so far in that direction it is impossible to have any kind of balance.

    Enough said. I did not start this thread to listen to your insults or read posted links. I started this thread to hear the opinions of my fellow inspectors. Not to read a history lesson about the subject matter from an outsider. Do you not have an opinion of your own on the subject matter.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Do you not have an opinion of your own on the subject matter.
    If your little opening rant was somehow supposed to display an intelligent discourse on the matter then I stand by my assertion. I posted the link to Jack Balkin's view so you might hear a different opinion about the relationship between the Whitehouse and Fox News. As for the rest of your whiny rant, there's nothing intelligent in there for me to form an opinion on.

    Oh wait there was this:

    I have not known any President to be so bold as to look in the camera and say "I could care less if you like my programs or not. This is what I am going to do and you don't agree then tough crap for you. You will be swallowed up and spit out."
    Um, that's exactly what the previous president said and did. Except he did it to the whole world. In case you don't remember, he look boldly at the camera and said "you're either with us or you're against us." And then he led us into not one but two wars in the middle east. One day we'll find those WMDs and he'll be vindicated. Wars which could have paid for the health care bill and then some. Or paid down the national debt. Or reduced taxes. Take your pick.

    Did you write the same rant then?

    So yes, please take your grade school whining elsewhere. Your argument is not intelligent or insightful or even honest, your protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.


  14. #14
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Corn Walker View Post
    If your little opening rant was somehow supposed to display an intelligent discourse on the matter then I stand by my assertion. I posted the link to Jack Balkin's view so you might hear a different opinion about the relationship between the Whitehouse and Fox News. As for the rest of your whiny rant, there's nothing intelligent in there for me to form an opinion on.

    Oh wait there was this:

    Um, that's exactly what the previous president said and did. Except he did it to the whole world. In case you don't remember, he look boldly at the camera and said "you're either with us or you're against us."(and that he should have. He gave fair warning to the world that enough was enough and it comes to an end now so either you are with us or against us and suffer the consequences) And then he led us into not one but two wars in the middle east. One day we'll find those WMDs and he'll be vindicated. Wars which could have paid for the health care bill and then some. Or paid down the national debt. Or reduced taxes. Take your pick.(Such an ignorant fool, it wouild have happened anyway. Get over it. The only thing you can do because you cannot defend the arrogant man in office now is attack the last President. Seriously, you should rethink your entire thought process. Where you born and raised in the liberal heart of the US surrounded by all the strongest bleading heart liberal colleges in western Mass)

    Did you write the same rant then? (Rant ??? Again, such a blind man. You see nothing of the fact that this President is trying to push through the costliest all time, forever spending sprees this country has ever seen all in the sake "I was the one elected so we are going to do it my way so get over it"

    So yes, please take your grade school whining elsewhere. Your argument is not intelligent or insightful or even honest, your protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.

    So

    You don't have an opinion of your own. Pretty much typical from one with not a mind of his own. Insult and ridicule is all the likes of you is capable of doing when you cannot come up with a thought of your own.

    And as far as going back in history, well, you should get your facts straight. The President past went into 2 wars in the middle east based on info he had. As far as the rest of the gov officials, they all went along with it as well. Why does one so narrow minded not see these things and just wants to whine about the last President getting us into 2 wars and deceived the rest of the world, whine, whine, whine.

    Unbelievable. If you had any intelligence between your 2 ears instead of it all being tucked away where you sit you would know that if it were not for Bush then it would have been Obama or even the next President that would have been the terrible evil man that got us into 2 wars in the middle east, It was inevitable.

    Stop with the "Mr Bush destroyed the economy and put us into 2 horrific wars crap. That is getting so dam old it is sickening.

    I discuss and complain about the unprecedented bashes on a news organization and his insane programs he is insistent on putting forth in one of the worse down falls in the economy we have had in some time. You want to piss and moan about the last president and post a history lesson from some bleeding heart liberal instead of giving an opinion of your own on the matter and then come back with more of the same crap with your pissy little insults. Like I said Corny get a grip. You have absolutely no idea of my IQ but I have certainly learned a lot about yours.

    Now stop you persistant whining and complaing about past history and past Presidents and either stop posting or post an opinion of your own.

    Oh my.

    It is Sunday morning and I actually allowed you to irritate me.

    And for a little history to you. I was born and raised a bleeding heart liberal until I came out of that trance, woke up and realized I did not have to be anything in particular and could havew my own thoughts and ideas and not follow the rest of the flock having step in all their crap. I like clean shoes. I follow my own conclusions and ideas in life.

    I happen to like Bill C as president even though his success road on the dot com craze. He should have taken care of business back when he had the chance and then you could not bee bashing Bush for what he had to do. Man you just happened to have manage to piss me.

    Blind men have always disgusted me in their blind ignorance. Have a thought of your own. It will be an epiphany for you. You will never be the same again. You mind will open up to great possibilities. The light will come on and you will be able to see that forest.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Ted,

    "Corny?" What are you, 12?

    You appear to be confusing your opinion with reality. I don't know anything about you but somehow you've got me pegged. Since you're so smart, where was I born again? And since you brought up IQ, mine is 173. Yours?

    So let me get this straight. The previous president started two wars where hundreds of thousands of people are killed and tells the world "you're either with us or against us" and that's okay.

    But the current president wants to extend healthcare to everyone, in the process saving tens of thousands of lives a year and that's somehow the more egregious use of the bully pulpit?

    And Fox News is fair and balanced. Says who? Oh right, Fox News.

    You have got to be kidding me.

    The America you live in today was stolen from the Native Americans and built on the backs of slaves and you somehow think that you're a self-made man who has worked hard and deserves everything you've earned. The government has no right to reach into your pocket because you earned that money, not them. Typical of another person born on third base who thinks he hit a home run.

    Your environment and your worldview are not objective, they're poisoned by the lie you've been told by those in power. Have you no sense of social justice? It appears not, and I can't say I would be surprised if you were an Ayn Rand acolyte. The reason you need a history lesson is because you obviously don't know any history. And I don't count your conversion from being an ignorant bleeding heart liberal to being an ignorant radical conservative as worth anything. People have converted from Mormonism to Scientology - exchanging one bit of stupidity for another does not count as learning.

    Please, take your myopic "opinion" of the world somewhere else. Your ignorance is neither cute nor amusing.


  16. #16
    Kevin Luce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    I hope this board isn't turning into an InterNACHI board regarding posting political views that don't lead to anything but hate towards each other.

    Writing about politics that has nothing to do with home inspections is like me going to church today and talking about politics during service (maybe some of you do that).

    I just don't understand why people have to write about this subject here.

    Please don't remind me that I don't have to read these types of subjects. I know that already.

    Last edited by Kevin Luce; 10-25-2009 at 09:22 AM. Reason: changed "posting political posts" to "posting political views".

  17. #17
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Corn Walker View Post
    Ted,

    "Corny?" What are you, 12?

    You appear to be confusing your opinion with reality. I don't know anything about you but somehow you've got me pegged. Since you're so smart, where was I born again? And since you brought up IQ, mine is 173. Yours?

    So let me get this straight. The previous president started two wars where hundreds of thousands of people are killed and tells the world "you're either with us or against us" and that's okay.

    But the current president wants to extend healthcare to everyone, in the process saving tens of thousands of lives a year and that's somehow the more egregious use of the bully pulpit?

    And Fox News is fair and balanced. Says who? Oh right, Fox News.

    You have got to be kidding me.

    The America you live in today was stolen from the Native Americans and built on the backs of slaves and you somehow think that you're a self-made man who has worked hard and deserves everything you've earned. The government has no right to reach into your pocket because you earned that money, not them. Typical of another person born on third base who thinks he hit a home run.

    Your environment and your worldview are not objective, they're poisoned by the lie you've been told by those in power. Have you no sense of social justice? It appears not, and I can't say I would be surprised if you were an Ayn Rand acolyte. The reason you need a history lesson is because you obviously don't know any history. And I don't count your conversion from being an ignorant bleeding heart liberal to being an ignorant radical conservative as worth anything. People have converted from Mormonism to Scientology - exchanging one bit of stupidity for another does not count as learning.

    Please, take your myopic "opinion" of the world somewhere else. Your ignorance is neither cute nor amusing.
    And I stand corrected......or not.

    First off my grand parents came over on the boat from Italy after world war 2. The other half of me is American Indian. Cherokee to be exact.

    No, I do not owe any black man or Indian anything. My folks had nothing to do with either of the stealing the country from the Indians or enslaving and working to death, blacks. But, once again you have told me more of yourself and view points and where they came from.

    On the second little highlight....Have you not read anything? I am not a conservative or a liberal or a Democrat or a Republican.

    You seriously do not have a clue about anything, do you?

    Your blindness also has no clue that thousands upon thousands of people a year were slaughtered by their own Government in Afghanistan and Iraq. You have no clue that Afghanistan Taliban were the ones supporting, agreeing with our little friends that downed the Jets in the US and caused that slaughter you foolish foolish man. They were also responsible for slaughtering people in the amount we will never know of with their radical, insane belief and would have spread their crap throughout the world. In case you have no noticed those same people are dying in hoards along with their leaders and maybe, just maybe it will soon come to an end. Pakistan has never fought against the Taliban animals but are now stamping them out of existence.

    You just seriously do not have a clue about anything at all, do you?

    The America I live in today has nothing to do with slavery or Indian killing. I am a self made man and past injustices to anyone has absolutely nothing to do with any of the crap you are spewing. Get a freaking grip and get out of the past.

    You know. When I first moved to Florida which would be 20 years ago I worked temporarily as a foreman for a commercial construction company. One day at lunch I was pulled into a conversation from some of the Black, or should I say African American or what freaking ever, about why I had the position I had for the company. I said "OK, I'll bite, why do I have the position I have" The answer from these folks was.......yes........because I am a white man that continues to suppress the black man

    Are you seriously in that group that because my skin...in the winter...is white and that is why I can do what I do and have what I have.

    My God man.......Wake the freak up.

    IQ of 173 huh....yeah right. If that is truly your IQ then I am ashamed that mine is just about that and wish it were back in the just below 100 range. If high IQ means I have a brain disorder like yourself then I am going to cheat on my next test so it comes out much lower.

    Get over the past history crap. Why are you so hung up on it. You will never be able to move forward.

    I owe who what?????? I would not be where I am if it not for what?????

    Get over yourself. Get your head out of your backside.

    Don't you realize that our great and wonderful new President is half black.

    Don't you think it is time to drop all that ignorant crap for once and for all. Chief justice...Black.

    Past heads of large portions of our military....black.

    My God man. I owe no one anything. I owe it to myself and the future youngsters in life to rid this world of people hung up on the past injustices instead of moving on in life. I owe it to our future youth to teach them that they have the same ability to do what any other man and woman on this planet can do...white...black...brown or what ever other color you want to add to it.

    What do you think is going on in the middle east. A very large portion of folks in the outback of those countries have been suppressed by their own people and are held back in mentality about 2000 years and trying to live in 2000. They have no real clue of the advancements in the world we live in today.They need to be brought into the future. Some blame it on the British....please. They brought them out of the dark ages even with the injustices they brought.

    Enough of this crap. There is no hope for you Corny (yes, I am 12) Actually it just depicts you to a T.....Corny in the way your mind works and where your head is stuck. You my friend are the perfect example of the extreme that needs to be brought into the center for your and others like you, good.

    Gotta go now to watch the air show. After all I have to know all about the newest air warfare devices this country has so when they are killing people around the world I will know with what they are using.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    You're funny, Ted, really. Try a little introspection once in a while, it will do you some good.

    Whether our parents or grandparents or great-great-great grandparents actually owned slaves or not is immaterial to my position that the advantages we have are in part due to the injustices of the past and, I would argue, injustices in the present that are different in character but no less profound than the institutionalized racism of the past. And I believe we both can agree that racism, while on the decline, is still alive today.

    If my grandfather stole $1000 from your grandfather, invested that money, and was able to provide for his children a good education and lifestyle replete with opportunity because of it, I have benefited. If your grandfather died in abject poverty because of the theft, leading to your father having to discontinue schooling at age 11 to earn enough to subsist on, curtailing his opportunities to provide the same type of lifestyle to his future child, then you have suffered.

    Likewise, if business opportunities were available to my grandfather because he "looked white" whereupon he had the ability to gain from his hard work, then he benefited from the racism, even if it wasn't his own. Meanwhile, if your grandfather worked just as hard but was denied opportunities because his skin was darker, he suffered from the racism that was endemic to this country.

    How convenient that we want to move beyond history, pretend like that was all in the past and the playing field is now level. It is the lie every "self made man" tells himself. Now I don't doubt that you truly believe the lie though, it's hard not to.

    So what is your theory of politics and social justice then? What do we owe to our fellow man, and what does our fellow man owe to us? What does that mean for the topical subjects of war, and healthcare, and our financial institutions?

    You seem to think it was somehow our duty to invade Iraq and Afghanistan to liberate the people from their tyrannical despots. What about Iran? The DPRK? Myanmar? Venezuela? What is the warrant for our involvement in these regimes? How about Saudi Arabia? They have an oppressive government that tortures and kills political prisoners. And let's not forget that 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudi nationals.

    More importantly, is war the most effective way of instituting positive change? What has all of our shooting and bombing gotten us in Afghanistan? Fewer warlords? A reduction in opium production? A stable, legitimate sectarian government? A dissolution of sharia laws? The eradication of the Taleban in Afghanistan or the FTA of Pakistan? Has it actually yielded anything beneficial?

    Today there are reports of 132 people killed in car bombings in Baghdad. How many car bombings were there before our removal of Hussein? How many after? How much sectarian bloodshed was there before and after? How many Kurds did Hussein kill since the 1991 invasion? How many Kurds were killed in sectarian violence after our toppling the regime?

    Before you paint me as a defender of Hussein, let me make clear that in no way do I support the man, his regime, his policies, his religion, or his actions. My argument instead is that if you are trying to bring about positive change in the region, our prosecution of the war in Iraq seems to have been not just ineffective at doing so, but counterproductive. The only measure by which we can say we had some success is in toppling the government. To say that the lives of average Iraqis have improved since the "shock and awe" unleashed by Rumsfeld and Bush would be to forfeit any shred of credibility you might have remaining.

    Whether you call yourself a conservative or not is immaterial, it's what you've written that leads me to call your ideology conservative (would you prefer "neocon"?) because what I've read thus far is consistent with what passes for conservatism today. Wear the shoe or not, it's still your size.


  19. #19
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Now


    Back from seeing the modern day killing machines I will have to tell you I liked that last post.

    Still degrading, a little sarcastic and a bit demeaning. But overall I liked that post and that had a lot of good discussion material in it.

    Nowe for giving that wonderful post I will take back all the dumb ass remarks I made and appoligize to you.

    In all that there is a tremendous amount to comment on but I will save that till after dinner.

    While you are waiting on pins and needles I will give yoiu this.

    I am about the most generous man that you will ever know. I give till it hurts and half the time I remain broke. Now, in saying that....No I do not owe anyone anything at all....period...in the slightest. I crawled and grovelled and busted my ass for anything I might have. No one gave me anything and by no means was it because of my white, Italian, Cherokee Indian skin color......period. I grew up in a five boy and a mother family...we had nothing. I came from nothing...we asked for nothing...we all worked for anything we got....I have given away in life more than a lot of people make in their working life. So please don't give me the crap about owing anyone anythhing.

    And with that I must go and eat my hard earned dinner.


  20. #20
    soloon mesfi's Avatar
    soloon mesfi Guest

    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Ron,

    Thanks for the feed back and all. I agree with you on all the points regarding free speech and other issues. I am wholeheartdly with you. I watch FOX news too. Time allowing I get all kind of sources for my information. I beleive that is the only way that one can get better understanding of things. What I don't agree on is this beleive that because I watch or follow certain news outlets or sources does not mean that what I hear is always true. You truly believe that the O'Riely's and the Glen Becks and the Obermans who make millions of dollars to just give opinions hence get the better ratings so that when the next round of negotations come they can ask for more money, really represent mine and your interest. Why do we need people with other underlying agendas give us what we can see and observe on a daily basis such as declining wages, out of control health insurance costs, unnessary wars etc. I don't care what country or political system you leave on the main weapon of the ruling class is always to have people get distracted and waste their time on whose political party of ideology is better for the masses. Therefore, instead of us spending our energy on finding ways on how to get moving on the right direction we will spend our time defending non deserving multi-million buffons who do not care a hoot other than their pay checks.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    I'm not sure if you know this, but O'Reilly, Beck, and Olbermann aren't news anchors, they're entertainers. Maddow I feel somewhat differently about, if only because I've met her and even when she was on our local station she's always come across as a straight shooting, well meaning liberal. I don't always agree with her opinions but I never get the sense that she's twisting the news to serve some other agenda or further her cause. Rather she has always used wit and snark to poke fun at her ideological opponents. The same can't be said for the bulk of the conservative talk show hosts that purport to be news anchors, who usually use willful ignorance, buffoonery, and bluster to shout down and drown out any contrary view point.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    I am about the most generous man that you will ever know. I give till it hurts and half the time I remain broke.
    More evidence that you're a conservative. One of the things I like to badger my "liberal" friends about is that they're all talk and no substance. Conservatives donate more to charities than do liberals (although the statistics are somewhat in dispute, since they count tithing as a charitable donation and conservatives are more likely to attend church than liberals). And liberals, for all their talk about alternative energy and reducing dependence on foreign oil, when it comes to putting a few windmills out at sea to deliver on the promise, all unite saying "not in my backyard."

    Now, in saying that....No I do not owe anyone anything at all....period...in the slightest.
    I don't mean to say we owe individuals anything. I'm not one advocating for reparations for past injustices (unless, of course, it means I can build a casino on my land in which case I'm all for them).

    The important difference between the formation of the federal and state governments of the United States and the governments, predominately monarchies, of old world Europe was the idea of governmental power deriving from the social contract rather than through divine ordinance (an idea, it must be said, in practice centuries earlier in the grecian city states as well as some parts of Mesopotamia). John Rawls takes this idea a step further and proposes that government should operate through a "veil of ignorance" to ensure equal and impartial social justice. If you have not read his treatise, "A Theory of Justice," you would do well to pick it up. You might also read "The Federalist Papers" to ground the theories of social justice with the foundation of our democratic republic.

    Now your original claim is that the Obama administration is arrogating immense political power, and the context was in its supposed war on Fox News. What I don't understand is how you find this more egregious than the previous administration which not only wielded the bully pulpit effectively and arrogated power through its dismantling of decades of executive orders and unprecedented use of "signing statements" to ignore lawful acts of congress (a precedent that it dismays me to see Obama continuing), but had as its rational the theory of the Unitary Executive that essentially places the executive branch above the law, arguing that the only check on its power is the impeachment process.


  23. #23
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    I also do not believe in giving to the church. I am not going to support a church first for just a little making it to the one really in need.

    Organized religion might be good for some but I have seen to many churches and their takes of funds coming in and so little going out. I do not want to pay for a priest to live and eat before I pay for a man in need to live and eat. Build a bigger church so they can get more folks in the door so the priests and ministers and the hierarchy above them can have a bigger cut and buy more expensive suits and eat bigger meals so they can give the left overs to the little guy. Absolute bull but I know no one is going there on this thread and to be honest as I am typing this I am wondering to keep or delete this.

    My point is I am not a conservative in the religiously outrageous sense. I do have a bit of the liberal and a bit of the conservative and a bit of the Republican and a bit of the democrat in me but no matter what one says they are they all have a little of each in them. I once asked a girl if she had any Indian in her. She said no and I asked her if.....sorry...thats another story.


  24. #24
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    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Pat Condell's latest missive might be appropriate, as far as your views on the clergy are concerned.

    YouTube - patcondell's Channel


  25. #25
    Ken Bates's Avatar
    Ken Bates Guest

    Default Re: Yeah yeah, Political, read if you wish

    Politicians are like contraceptives.

    They give you a feeling of security;

    while you're being screwed.

    Almost all of our elected officials are politicians.

    You can count the statesmen on one hand.


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