Thread: Advice, tips, what am I missing? I'm new to HI's

Newbie here. First off, I've been floating around this site for a while under a username I use for all the forums I'm a member of (dicksenn) and decided to be more professional and go with my full name. Wanted to say thanks for all the info it's almost to much to take in but I'm reading all I can.

Before the veterans ask why would I want to get into this business all I can say is my business partner and I have done the research and the Tulsa metro housing market is still booming. The metro is on track to close and sell on 12,000 homes this year plus the construction board is averaging about 250 new homes each month.

We can't officially begin the business until we complete the state required 90 hour class which begins in August and runs to the end of December so we are trying to cover all our bases and learn everything we can before we begin.

Instead of asking what reporting system, E&O insurance, etc.. to use I'll just continue reading the archives and downloading the free trials, but what advise do you wish someone had told you before you began, besides the comical relief advise of "don't do it."

Regards,
Richard Senn

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Originally Posted by Richard Senn

Instead of asking what reporting system, E&O insurance, etc.. to use I'll just continue reading the archives and downloading the free trials, but what advise do you wish someone had told you before you began, besides the comical relief advise of "don't do it."

Regards,
Richard Senn

Where do I start?
Beware of HI orgs that spam you and tell you they are giving you something for free.

Beware of HI orgs that tell you "I'm just here to help you make money"

. BEWARE of HI orgs that tell you you are more qualfied than anybody else if you pay them $s and take their online quiz.

Beware of HI orgs that tell you will get rich, and maybe get millions of $s in work if you pay them to join their HI org..

The attics are hotter that haties in the summer.

It will take you 6 months to six years to see a positive cash flow.

You can be sued for anything you do.

Other inspectors, and HI orgs will lie about you and cut your thought.

8 out of 10 realtors will not refer you if you are honest and disclose legit defects.

8 out of 10 realtors will not refer you if you fail to convince the customer the home they picked is perfect for them.

Thats a start, I'll think of a few more while I'm doing my 1 PM inspection.

Originally Posted by Dan Harris

Where do I start?
You can be sued for anything you do.

Other inspectors, and HI orgs will lie about you and cut your thought.

Thanks for the comments Dan.

The part about being sued is what is the most concerning and something I really didn't think was a common practice until I started reading on this board. I'll be searching the threads, but how common place is this?

The cut throat mentality is another thing I've wondered especially when everyone mentions doing a ride-a-long with a seasoned inspector and all I think is "why would an inspector in Tulsa be willing to take me on a ride-a-long being a potential competitor?" How willing are the members on here to ride-a-longs for new inspectors?

Regards,
Richard

Originally Posted by Richard Senn

Thanks for the comments Dan.

The part about being sued is what is the most concerning and something I really didn't think was a common practice until I started reading on this board. I'll be searching the threads, but how common place is this?

The cut throat mentality is another thing I've wondered especially when everyone mentions doing a ride-a-long with a seasoned inspector and all I think is "why would an inspector in Tulsa be willing to take me on a ride-a-long being a potential competitor?" How willing are the members on here to ride-a-longs for new inspectors?

Regards,
Richard

Law suits, or a poential for a law suit are very common. One way to see this is visit state sites that regulate home inspectors, and look a the complaints filed against home inspectors.
The listings on those sites are only a small percentage of complaints that the customers made.

Ride a longs. That's a tough one.. There are many inspectors willing to do them with the intention of helping a new guy get started on the right track. Some are doing them strickley for a few extra bucks, and could care less what you learn from them.

Personnaly I was helped by a few local guys, and I look at it a few ways.
1- I'm giving back to the profession.
2- If I don't do it some one else will. I wil only take some on with me on a vancant home when the customer will not be there.
3- I figure is a new guy is going to be competing against me I'll try to share what I've learned from others and what I've learned on my own inspections. Hopefully if that new inspector makes it he will do inspections in a way that's best for our profession, and also share his experiences with me and other inspectors.

One thing I stress to every new inspector. I am not or claim to be the smartest guy out there.
GO on ride a longs with three or four experienced inspectors and learn something new from each one.

I've found maybe 1 or 2 out of 10 guys ever make it to the point to be considered a competor.. At some point that one or two will keep me in mind if they are out of town or booked and refer me on inspections they can't do.

Originally Posted by Dan Harris

Where do I start?

After you finish your little 90-hour obligatory baptism you will not be prepared to do the job. You will have little or no knowledge, no experience, and no guidance. Are you a masochist or just plain stupid?

I guess I should state what was probably the case for everyone on this forum starting out is you have to start somewhere and I'm not claiming to even come close to having the knowledge base I intend to learn over the years all from a 90 course. I'm considering paying to attend the full ASHI school program as well, plus find some mentors in the same state that will be willing to let me ride a long. More over most of my knowledge will have to come from hands on experience at some point so when we first start I'll be offering free inspections to friends, family, neighbors and who ever will let me crawl around in there attic so I'll be able to gain a little trail and error experience.

I'm not aiming to do this as some fly by night inspector gaining some extra income on the side, I'm interested in creating a reputable business and I have to start somewhere.

Regards,
Richard

Originally Posted by Dan Harris

I've found maybe 1 or 2 out of 10 guys ever make it to the point to be considered a competor.. At some point that one or two will keep me in mind if they are out of town or booked and refer me on inspections they can't do.

Dan, good point this is the only reason I can think of that someone might be willing to let me ride along. Well, that and a maybe a free lunch.

You may have better luck finding a mentor in another town, by assuring him you are not planning to operate in his territory.

Another option is joining a multi inspector team.

Have you counted up the number of inspectors in your area and divided that into the 12,000 X 50% homes?

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

OK then, my hat's off to you. You surely picked a tough time to enter the market. Study and work hard and you should succeed all the more for having begun in such an economic slump.

Probably so, I'm still researching. It's hard to find actual state statistics on home closings, but from what I've seen and what's been reported in the Tulsa newspaper homes sales have been good despite the economy. Trying to decifer what % of the last years sales were driven by the tax credit is somewhat difficult though.

Tulsa home sales up from last year | Tulsa World

Originally Posted by John Kogel

You may have better luck finding a mentor in another town, by assuring him you are not planning to operate in his territory.

Another option is joining a multi inspector team.

Have you counted up the number of inspectors in your area and divided that into the 12,000 X 50% homes?

Yes, although my preliminary research said about 70% of homes sold received inspections, but 50% is more realistic.

In the Tulsa area I have found 17 inspectors by using the yellow pages and online searching (there are probably more, though). Of those 17 only 8 have websites, and of those 8 websites only about 4 or so mention anything more than there name and contact info. Because I plan on having a professional website, a name that gets me first on the list in the yellow pages (every little bit helps), and not to mention working my arse off talking to realtors and lenders, I'm expecting to take more than 1/18th of the available market here.

Regards,
Richard

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

http://www.realtor.org/wps/wcm/conne...2fffa3819af93a

Housing Trends Tulsa and Tulsa Real Estate Market Update

Thanks for those links!

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

If you contact the Construction Industries Board they may have access to the statistics you need.

I called them, they weren't so helpful, but maybe the lady I talked to was having a bad day. I asked a couple of questions regarding the state exam and approved courses and her only response was "it's all on the website" and she was unwilling to elaborate on anything.

Regards,
Richard

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

Typical a$$holes, much like we have in Texas. Try this then. Contact your local board of realtors. Tell them you are a college student doing a research paper on the Tulsa real estate market and you need to find a source for statistics, e.g. the number of active home inspectors in the market. Or that you are an independent author writing an article on home inspections in general. Be creative.

Funny you mention this, because I planned on doing the same thing. Since I'm partnering in this business I figured both mine and my bus. partners wifes could chip in on the research. I plan on calling for what you mentioned on gaining more info on the market and stats and I also plan to call every inspector in the area to get pricing for a specific size home, and note each sales pitch so we will know what we are up against.

Even though I plan on getting competitor pricing, our pricing will have to be based on our own calculations and overhead so we make enough to survive. I can either make my own spreadsheet or I'm contemplating buying Brian's Cost of Doing Business since it looks like he has already done the leg work.

Regards,
Richard

Originally Posted by Richard Senn

Trying to decifer what % of the last years sales were driven by the tax credit is somewhat difficult though.

Somewhat difficult? Try impossible. I don't know about Tulsa's market, but the market here was very bad in early 2009, so it would have been virtually impossible not to have had positive comparisons in 2010.

As a practical matter though it really doesn't matter, because even if you knew every real estate stat for your area for the past 10 years, that wouldn't tell you what the market would be like next month or next year.

Originally Posted by Richard Senn

...what advise do you wish someone had told you before you began, besides the comical relief advise of "don't do it."

That the market was going to crash Oct 2008 and the inspection market was going to dry up for the next year or two.

First off, I've been floating around this site for a while under a username I use for all the forums I'm a member of (dicksenn)

My only advice is to stop using that username- someone may get the wrong idea when it's spoken.

I have hosted a lot of ride alongs over the years. Some were locals, some were from out of my area. The last few years I did them, I charged for them.

I had some basic requirements: stay with me the entire time and keep your mouth shut.

A few times I asked my ride along to take off.

A few of my ride alongs ended up going into business, joining my ASHI Chapter, and while they are in business in the same town, I do get a lot of referrals from them when they are not able to do an inspection, or they feel I'm a better match (legal stuff).

Originally Posted by Brandon Whitmore

My only advice is to stop using that username- someone may get the wrong idea when it's spoken.

It has been the source for quite a few of the jokes on some archery/hunting forums.

Jack thanks for the input, since you and Dan mention there are some inspectors willing to let some newbies ride-a-long then I will probably call several this fall and see if they will let me tag along if I'm willing to keep my mouth shut.


Here is another question. After doing some interenet research I see a lot of sites claiming the home inspection business is supposedly going to grow anywhere from 10-30% over the next few years. For those in that have been in it for a while is this something they have been continually saying and claiming over the years and it's nothing new? There aren't really any facts to back there claims up except for saying that they foresee new home laws being created that would make home inspections a mandatory process for home purchasing in a couple of years.

Regards,
Richard

Originally Posted by Richard Senn

Here is another question. After doing some interenet research I see a lot of sites claiming the home inspection business is supposedly going to grow anywhere from 10-30% over the next few years. For those in that have been in it for a while is this something they have been continually saying and claiming over the years and it's nothing new? There aren't really any facts to back there claims up except for saying that they foresee new home laws being created that would make home inspections a mandatory process for home purchasing in a couple of years.

Regards,
Richard

Do some extensive research to figure out what the demand is. HI schools, some HI orgs, and venders will tell you anything to get your $s.

, I would say that percentage may be correct if you consider you could be the one to replace the guys quiting, the ones that go broke buying crap from venders that they will never use, get sued out of business, or the 90% that go to school and never get started.

From what I've seen apx 10-30% get sued out of business or retire every year.

When licensing started in AZ in 2002 there were apx 300 inspectors, 2005 there were apx 1500, 2010 apx 600.

Starting out as an inspector we just have to be able to look into the future and see if we are going to be the one that never makes it, gets sued out of business , or retires so the next guy can get his foot in the door.

Check and double check the school or vender that you chose.
Beware of venders that scam this site, and tell you that they aren't selling you anything , they offer free training and just want to help you.

I don't know about others. I figure If a vender cannot afford to pay for advertizing like the other professional venders that advertize here, do I really want to trust them with my future in this profession.

Originally Posted by Richard Senn

It has been the source for quite a few of the jokes on some archery/hunting forums.

Jack thanks for the input, since you and Dan mention there are some inspectors willing to let some newbies ride-a-long then I will probably call several this fall and see if they will let me tag along if I'm willing to keep my mouth shut.


Here is another question. After doing some interenet research I see a lot of sites claiming the home inspection business is supposedly going to grow anywhere from 10-30% over the next few years. For those in that have been in it for a while is this something they have been continually saying and claiming over the years and it's nothing new? There aren't really any facts to back there claims up except for saying that they foresee new home laws being created that would make home inspections a mandatory process for home purchasing in a couple of years.

Regards,
Richard

I have no doubt that many are saying that the profession will grow 10-30% over the next few years. I bet ya a nice dinner at InspectionWorld 2011 that all of those that are claiming this are also selling a service/product to home inspectors or prospective home inspectors.

I can see the number of inspections going up, I don't see how they can go much lower than they are currently! Our profession hit it's "heyday" back in 1998 to around 2004. 2005 to 2006 were when we started to see the decline and the crash of the profession. All of those that jumped in on the coat tails of the fly-by-night used home salesperson's were the first to suffer and to dropout of the profession. They were so use to being supplied what seemed like an unending source of inspections that they never worked on additional streams of income to support them when the sales were down.

In my state (TN) we have seen around 60% or better of those that obtained a license from 2006 to 2010 drop out of the profession. It is easy to track the numbers in a licensed state. Most of those that could not make it simply did not renew their license. Only a few have had the foresight to place their license in an "inactive" status so when the market does come back they just need to reactivate it instead of starting from scratch.

I honestly think that we have another 12 to 18 months of slow home sales and limited new construction. Some areas of the country will do better than others and vise versa. The key to the whole shebang is the home building market. Once the new home market cranks back up we will see major changes in just about all aspects of the economy.

If the powers to be would do another tax credit incentive it would make a world of difference to home sales and for the number of inspections that folks order. When the tax credit ended so did the ringing of my phone.

Did some more digging and found six more inspectors in the area. I don't know how these guys are finding business being that they are so hard to find, and I especially don't know how they are paying the bills charging $150 per inspection.

Richard

Originally Posted by Richard Senn

Did some more digging and found six more inspectors in the area. I don't know how these guys are finding business being that they are so hard to find, and I especially don't know how they are paying the bills charging $150 per inspection.

Richard

It looks like you may have found some realtor toadies[ or whatever some guys here call them]

The toadies? are the ones that only known by a few shady real estate sales people, and soon to be well known by the local lawyers, and your state lic dept.

Originally Posted by Dan Harris

It looks like you may have found some realtor toadies[ or whatever some guys here call them]

The toadies? are the ones that only known by a few shady real estate sales people, and soon to be well known by the local lawyers, and your state lic dept.

I know there are some of those out there, but the six I just found all have websites so they might not all be toadies.
Richard

As stated above I'm considering the ASHI school whether it be the classroom course or the in field courses. Do any of you have any experience with this school and it's classes? Being that it's a couple grand for any given class I'd like to have some opinions.

Richard

Richard says

Being that it's a couple grand for any given class I'd like to have some opinions.

HUH?????!!!!

No one pays for home inspection education anymore. You say that your are in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Both Pre-Licensing courses and Continuing Education courses are free in Oklahoma. Oklahoma Committee of Home Inspector Examiners approves InterNACHI's online courses for pre-licensing and continuing education. - InterNACHI

All the Pre-Licensing courses are approved by Oklahoma and totally free How to become a home inspector: Free Inspector Education and Training - InterNACHI

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Richard says HUH?????!!!!

No one pays for home inspection education anymore. You say that your are in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Both Pre-Licensing courses and Continuing Education courses are free in Oklahoma. Oklahoma Committee of Home Inspector Examiners approves InterNACHI's online courses for pre-licensing and continuing education. - InterNACHI

All the Pre-Licensing courses are approved by Oklahoma and totally free How to become a home inspector: Free Inspector Education and Training - InterNACHI

Lisa,

If this is the case I'll be calling the Construction Industries Board this morning to find out. Before calling them the first time I read they changed the pre-licensing course work to 90 hours instead of 50 hours and that online classes were not accepted for pre-licensing starting this year. I called the CIB and they confirmed and said Tulsa Tech had an approved pre-licensing course and sure enough they just changed the course from 50 hrs. to 90 hrs. The course cost $475 with the book.

Richard

Originally Posted by Richard Senn

Lisa,

If this is the case I'll be calling the Construction Industries Board this morning to find out. Before calling them the first time I read they changed the pre-licensing course work to 90 hours instead of 50 hours and that online classes were not accepted for pre-licensing starting this year. I called the CIB and they confirmed and said Tulsa Tech had an approved pre-licensing course and sure enough they just changed the course from 50 hrs. to 90 hrs. The course cost $475 with the book.

Richard

The old adage of you get what you pay for holds true with education. Many times if something is Free it will end up being the most expensive down the road. Don't forget that in OK you will have to take and pass the NHIE so you are going to want a good education.

Talk to others and listen to what you are being told. Ask about the quality of the education. Ask how many pass or fail the NHIE on their first try (national pass avg on the first try sits right at 64% right now). Many educators are not teaching what you need to know only what they think you need to know.

Originally Posted by Richard Senn

Lisa,

If this is the case I'll be calling the Construction Industries Board this morning to find out. Before calling them the first time I read they changed the pre-licensing course work to 90 hours instead of 50 hours and that online classes were not accepted for pre-licensing starting this year. I called the CIB and they confirmed and said Tulsa Tech had an approved pre-licensing course and sure enough they just changed the course from 50 hrs. to 90 hrs. The course cost $475 with the book.

Richard

Lisa,

I appreciate your response. I just got off the phone with the CIB. Yes 90 hours is the new requirement starting this year, and she confirmed online classes were okay (I was told no previously) and your course is approved.

I may do both since yours is online and free plus classroom instruction would be beneficial as I will need all the knowledge I can gain starting out.

Richard

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

The old adage of you get what you pay for holds true with education. Many times if something is Free it will end up being the most expensive down the road. Don't forget that in OK you will have to take and pass the NHIE so you are going to want a good education.

Talk to others and listen to what you are being told. Ask about the quality of the education. Ask how many pass or fail the NHIE on their first try (national pass avg on the first try sits right at 64% right now). Many educators are not teaching what you need to know only what they think you need to know.

Scott,

I must have posted just after you, but yes I agree with you get what you pay for. After the online class I'm willing to bet I can pass the state exam, but the problem for me is that the course is probably geared to help you pass that exam and I need all the information and knowledge I can get for when I'm in the field inspecting and that exam can't cover everything I may encounter. I may do both as I stated above since knowledge is power.

Richard

Originally Posted by Richard Senn

Lisa,

If this is the case I'll be calling the Construction Industries Board this morning to find out. Before calling them the first time I read they changed the pre-licensing course work to 90 hours instead of 50 hours and that online classes were not accepted for pre-licensing starting this year. I called the CIB and they confirmed and said Tulsa Tech had an approved pre-licensing course and sure enough they just changed the course from 50 hrs. to 90 hrs. The course cost $475 with the book.

Richard

Richard. From my experience, be careful thinking any on-line or home study course is going to get you very far.
When I got started I figured with over 30 yrs construction experience I didn't need to take 2-3 weeks and spend $2000 plus to learn everything I already knew.
Here is my experience.
The 1st course I took was from some home study company that advertized on matchbooks. Completed it in 2-3 weeks and passed it with flying colors.

Now that I knew it all I figured the best way how to find out a way to get business was attand a local HI org meeting. After attending that meeting, all I did was sit in the back, listen to the discussion on CE course being presented I KNEW I didn't have a clue about this profession.

Back to the drawing board. The next home study course cost me I believe $7-800 what a difference, I was sure I now knew it all.
Back to another meeting. I still sat in the back and still did not say a word or ask any questions.
The next meeting the darn guys started takling about the liability we have.
LIABILITY? Are these guys nuts. Why would I be liabile for anything.

Hmmm. Maybe I need to know some more. The next step was hire a home inspector to inspect my home.
What a surprise I got. I thought my home was perfect

By the time I had 5 different types of exposure I was really confused.

By then I figured after spending $1500 or so, there must be another way,
sure enought there was. . I found a inspection site that told me if you pass our on-line quiz you will be a certified inspector, with the help of the code check book , I passed that on-quiz, now I was a certified home inspector and really knew more than the other guys

Oh wait, bad news, now the state decided AZ home inspectors needed to be state certified. I figured NO PROBLM, this on-line guy certified me, I took all those courses, completed 25-30 inspections, surley the state will also certify me. NOPE everthing I did was not approved by the state.

Back to the drawing board, and back to school, another $2000 bucks and 2 weeks 80 hours, for a class room HI course
By the 4th day and 2 ridealong inspections, I figured out Hmmm maybe the state does have a clue, and I didn't.

The moral of the story. The home study and on-line courses did help me understand the profession a little better.
BUT Beware of anybody that tells you, trust us, all you have to do is pay us, or take our free courses and we will give you everthing you need to be a professional home inspector.

Originally Posted by Dan Harris

Richard. From my experience, be careful thinking any on-line or home study course is going to get you very far.
When I got started I figured with over 30 yrs construction experience I didn't need to take 2-3 weeks and spend $2000 plus to learn everything I already knew.
Here is my experience.
The 1st course I took was from some home study company that advertized on matchbooks. Completed it in 2-3 weeks and passed it with flying colors.

Now that I knew it all I figured the best way how to find out a way to get business was attand a local HI org meeting. After attending that meeting, all I did was sit in the back, listen to the discussion on CE course being presented I KNEW I didn't have a clue about this profession.

Back to the drawing board. The next home study course cost me I believe $7-800 what a difference, I was sure I now knew it all.
Back to another meeting. I still sat in the back and still did not say a word or ask any questions.
The next meeting the darn guys started takling about the liability we have.
LIABILITY? Are these guys nuts. Why would I be liabile for anything.

Hmmm. Maybe I need to know some more. The next step was hire a home inspector to inspect my home.
What a surprise I got. I thought my home was perfect

By the time I had 5 different types of exposure I was really confused.

By then I figured after spending $1500 or so, there must be another way,
sure enought there was. . I found a inspection site that told me if you pass our on-line quiz you will be a certified inspector, with the help of the code check book , I passed that on-quiz, now I was a certified home inspector and really knew more than the other guys

Oh wait, bad news, now the state decided AZ home inspectors needed to be state certified. I figured NO PROBLM, this on-line guy certified me, I took all those courses, completed 25-30 inspections, surley the state will also certify me. NOPE everthing I did was not approved by the state.

Back to the drawing board, and back to school, another $2000 bucks and 2 weeks 80 hours, for a class room HI course
By the 4th day and 2 ridealong inspections, I figured out Hmmm maybe the state does have a clue, and I didn't.

The moral of the story. The home study and on-line courses did help me understand the profession a little better.
BUT Beware of anybody that tells you, trust us, all you have to do is pay us, or take our free courses and we will give you everthing you need to be a professional home inspector.

Believe me I'm on the same page as you. Even if I take and pass the free course listed by Lisa, I still have to pay and pass the State exam, which may or may not be more difficult I don't know, but I'm willing to bet with all the studying I can pass it.

The problem is just because I pass all these exams doesn't mean I know jack about being a home inspector, as you and others have stated. I know this, and I am not about to go around claiming I have all the knowledge to inspect and that just because I am certified I know all I need to know. All it means is I will have a general knowledge of the business. I understand you guys get the fly by night inspectors that feel they are more than qualified to inspect after they pass the exam only to fail miserably or get there arse sued off right off the bat, but I know better and want to run a successful business. The most beneficial knowledge will come from trial and error inspecting, mentors in the profession, constantly trying to learn more, etc..

I'm hoping to find some OKC or Tulsa inspectors willing to let me do some ride-a-longs plus gain knowledge from this forum and read as many books on the profession as I can.

Richard

Lisa,

I appreciate your response. I just got off the phone with the CIB. Yes 90 hours is the new requirement starting this year, and she confirmed online classes were okay (I was told no previously) and your course is approved.

Approved, convenient, and free.

Originally Posted by Richard Senn

Believe me I'm on the same page as you. Even if I take and pass the free course listed by Lisa, I

Richard

Just be careful on what you think is free.

A little story on FREE.
A couple week ago I got an email for FREE E Cigs, just pay $5.95 S@H.
Sounds great. AFTER I sent my $s off I did some research, sure enough they were free, but after reseraching I found out they were $20.00 more than anyone else, and after reading the small print I found my credit card will be charged $29 a month, until I cancel.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Approved, convenient, and free.

Lisa, below is what your site list as the pre-licensing course work for Oklahoma. The first course was indeed free for non-members, but I can only view the first page of the second course unless I become a member for $289. So is your course really free and I'm doing something wrong or is it $289?

4 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Safe Practices for the Home Inspector course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
5 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online 25 Standards Every Inspector Should Know course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
8 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Residential Plumbing Inspection course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
4 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Residential Electrical Inspection course (free), including all quizzes within, and pass its final exam.
4 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Roofing Inspection course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
12 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online HVAC Inspection course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
4 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Structural Issues course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
16 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Exterior Inspection course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
14 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Attic, Insulation, Ventilation and Interior course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
3 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Deck Inspections course (free), including all the quizzes within and pass its final exam.
8 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Moisture Intrusion Inspection course (free), including all the quizzes within and pass its final exam.
8 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Green Building course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
12 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Wood-Destroying Organisms course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
12 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Mold Inspection course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
3 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Inspecting Foundation Walls and Piers course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
8 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Log Home Inspection course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
12 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Radon Measurement Service Provider course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
8 hours: Complete InterNACHI's online Commercial Inspection course (free), including all quizzes within and pass its final exam.
145 hours total.

After ALL COURSES are completed email lisa@internachi.org for your state-specific certificate of completion.

Richard

Originally Posted by Richard Senn

Lisa, below is what your site list as the pre-licensing course work for Oklahoma. The first course was indeed free for non-members, but I can only view the first page of the second course unless I become a member for $289. So is your course really free and I'm doing something wrong or is it $289?

Richard

Humm, I would say that the glove has been drawn and thrown.

RIchard, provided you are not harming the industry by financially supporting a known no-entrance-requirement diploma mill such as ASHI, you can email fastreply@nachi.org and I will give you totally free access to InterNACHI's pre-licensing courses which are approved by Oklahoma. No strings, no catches, no charge.

Originally Posted by Richard Senn

Lisa,

If this is the case I'll be calling the Construction Industries Board this morning to find out. Before calling them the first time I read they changed the pre-licensing course work to 90 hours instead of 50 hours and that online classes were not accepted for pre-licensing starting this year. I called the CIB and they confirmed and said Tulsa Tech had an approved pre-licensing course and sure enough they just changed the course from 50 hrs. to 90 hrs. The course cost $475 with the book.

Richard

It is my opinion that the classroom experience can be invaluable when you have a number of different instructors. The difference in personalities and the way they approach things is a lesson all by itself. One guy was a called "anal-retentive" by his fellow instructors, one was very laid back with the "see a contractor" answer for most anything that could came up in the inspection, another was very engineer-ish. Clear and concise communication. The voluntary Virginia Certification program requires in-classroom education. Online, virtual, or home study is not accepted.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

RIchard, provided you are not harming the industry by financially supporting a known no-entrance-requirement diploma mill such as ASHI, you can email fastreply@nachi.org and I will give you totally free access to InterNACHI's pre-licensing courses which are approved by Oklahoma. No strings, no catches, no charge.

Again Lisa -
This is for the benefit of new visitors to the board -

One joins ASHI as an associate and EARNS certification with inspection experience, a review of inspection reports, passing the online SOP and Ethics exams, AND passing the NHIE.

The NHIE and your company's entrance exam are nowhere near the same of detail and complexity. The NHIE is a 200 question proctored exam. The examinee isn't allowed to have books or a computer to look up answers.

A new associate cannot use the ASHI logo until they have passed the NHIE, passed the online SOP and Ethics exams, and have at performed at least 50 fee-paid inspections that comply with ASHI SOP. Five of the inspection reports are randomly selected for peer review. Get this far and you get to the "Associate with Logo Use" level.
The allowed logo includes the word "ASSOCIATE" on it

To become a CERTIFIED ASHI home inspector, one must get through the above and have a total of 250 fee-paid inspections that comply with the ASHI SOP. Inspection reports are randomly selected for peer review. Once all the qualification are met, the logo now states "CERTIFIED" on it.

Perhaps I'm a bit dense but I see nothing that could be truthfully extrapolated to allow one to label ASHI a diploma mill. However, I do see a direct correlation of the term "Diploma Mill" with your company's process.

I'm done, expressed my opinion. I will not get into a name calling fight with you. It's old and boring.

Thanks Stuart.

It appears that there are two membership levels at ASHI. I'll address both.

The first type of membership is an "associate" level. To become this type of member at ASHI one only has to fill out an online application that takes about 30 seconds and provide payment. ASHI has no entrance requirements. According to you, ASHI then encourages these diploma mill ASHI associates to go out and perform actual fee-paid inspections for poor, unsuspecting consumers as the only way to achieve full membership. This is unconscionable. It also leads to diploma mill ASHI associates cutting our throats with cheap fees in an effort to get their numbers of unqualified inspections performed. Bad for inspectors, bad for consumers.

The second type is ASHI's highest so-called "certified" membership level. As you have explained, there are three requirements. I'll address each to see how meaningful they really are:
- The first is an ethics exam. Well as you know, unethical inspectors give the right ethical answers on exams. So that requirement is meaningless.
- The second is the performance of a certain number of inspections that have to comply to SOP. Well as you know, these inspections are unsupervised and so no one can tell from the reports whether or not they were done correctly or not. Furthermore, in this day and age, where all reporting software packages and all reporting forms comply with SOP, it is difficult to author a report that doesn't comply with SOP. So that requirement is meaningless.
- The third is passing the beginner's exam (NHIE). Well as you know, the NHIE is a beginner's exam used by many states to licensed newbies fresh out of school. I'm shocked to see that you've publicly admitted that ASHI's highest "certified" membership level is based on a beginner's exam that many states use to license newbies. Nevertheless, that requirement is meaningless.

I apologize if I seem obstinate in refusing to retreat from my position that ASHI is a diploma mill, but I am very willing to evolve if you can show me where I'm wrong. Does diploma mill ASHI have any meaningful requirements (other than paying with a valid credit card) that I've overlooked?

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Thanks Stuart.

It appears that there are two membership levels at ASHI. I'll address both.

... snipped ... that I've overlooked?

No comment - your posts says it all. Have a great day!

No comment - your posts says it all.

I think my post "says it all" as well. Thanks. You have a great day too!

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

I think my post "says it all" as well. Thanks. You have a great day too!

Each organization serves a purpose and a particular segment of the population. One is designed for those who appreciate earning their "stripes" and the other is for those who want instant gratification and is looking for the easy way out.

Neither is right or wrong they are just two different philosophies in the profession.

Do some research and you will see that one organization flings mud and innuendo and the other takes the higher road of professionalism. One will never stoop to such tactics and does not need to attempt to discredit the other in order to gain members.

One organization has acquired a third party NCCA accreditation of their certification and the other can not.

In the end it is the consumer home inspector who decides the direction and the type of affiliation they want to be associated with. Just do some research on your own if you have any questions.

Originally Posted by Richard Senn

I guess I should state what was probably the case for everyone on this forum starting out is you have to start somewhere and I'm not claiming to even come close to having the knowledge base I intend to learn over the years all from a 90 course. I'm considering paying to attend the full ASHI school program as well, plus find some mentors in the same state that will be willing to let me ride a long. More over most of my knowledge will have to come from hands on experience at some point so when we first start I'll be offering free inspections to friends, family, neighbors and who ever will let me crawl around in there attic so I'll be able to gain a little trail and error experience.

I'm not aiming to do this as some fly by night inspector gaining some extra income on the side, I'm interested in creating a reputable business and I have to start somewhere.

Regards,
Richard

Sounds like a smart approach. I definitely agree with you attending an ASHI school and doing inspections for free on as many homes as you can get your hands on. As far as ride-alongs, don't be afraid to ask. Join a local ASHI, or other local Association group and I'm sure you will find some helpful folks. Almost all of our local CREIA, ASHI and NAHI members have been helpful over the last 13 years.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Thanks Stuart.

It appears that there are two membership levels at ASHI. I'll address both.

The first type of membership is an "associate" level. To become this type of member at ASHI one only has to fill out an online application that takes about 30 seconds and provide payment. ASHI has no entrance requirements. According to you, ASHI then encourages these diploma mill ASHI associates to go out and perform actual fee-paid inspections for poor, unsuspecting consumers as the only way to achieve full membership. This is unconscionable. It also leads to diploma mill ASHI associates cutting our throats with cheap fees in an effort to get their numbers of unqualified inspections performed. Bad for inspectors, bad for consumers.

The second type is ASHI's highest so-called "certified" membership level. As you have explained, there are three requirements. I'll address each to see how meaningful they really are:
- The first is an ethics exam. Well as you know, unethical inspectors give the right ethical answers on exams. So that requirement is meaningless.
- The second is the performance of a certain number of inspections that have to comply to SOP. Well as you know, these inspections are unsupervised and so no one can tell from the reports whether or not they were done correctly or not. Furthermore, in this day and age, where all reporting software packages and all reporting forms comply with SOP, it is difficult to author a report that doesn't comply with SOP. So that requirement is meaningless.
- The third is passing the beginner's exam (NHIE). Well as you know, the NHIE is a beginner's exam used by many states to licensed newbies fresh out of school. I'm shocked to see that you've publicly admitted that ASHI's highest "certified" membership level is based on a beginner's exam that many states use to license newbies. Nevertheless, that requirement is meaningless.

I apologize if I seem obstinate in refusing to retreat from my position that ASHI is a diploma mill, but I am very willing to evolve if you can show me where I'm wrong. Does diploma mill ASHI have any meaningful requirements (other than paying with a valid credit card) that I've overlooked?

I'm sorry but i must laugh at this statement considering one of the questions on your test is

How do you spell ? a: recepticle, b: receptical, c: reciptical, d: receptacle.

Originally Posted by C.Johnson

I'm sorry but i must laugh at this statement considering one of the questions on your test is

How do you spell ? a: recepticle, b: receptical, c: reciptical, d: receptacle.

Hey CJ, no cheating posting that on here so we will tell you the answer to that question. You have to take the exam on your own.

I agree with Scott Patterson when he says

Each organization serves a purpose and a particular segment of the population. One is designed for those who appreciate earning their "stripes" ...

Can you guess what inspection trade association requires all this? - InterNACHI

... and the other is for those who want instant gratification and is looking for the easy way out.

https://www.homeinspector.org/join/a...n/default.aspx

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

I agree with Scott Patterson when he says Can you guess what inspection trade association requires all this? - ASHI

Nicks club

You need to lay off the Red Bulls!

Do some research and you will see that one organization flings mud and innuendo and the other takes the higher road of professionalism. One will never stoop to such tactics and does not need to attempt to discredit the other in order to gain members.

Lisa,
Lets take a look at what Scott said (see above) now look back at your last post. I think you just proved the point. Please go recruit somewhere else. This site was made for inspectors to talk to other inspectors and discuss amongst ourselves our trade. Your ads are around and so are others let the new guys decide for themselves, I myself am fairly new to the trade and have made my own decisions based on my own research and speaking with other professionals, one of my main reasons for who i associate my name with is due to professionalism, I refuse to associate my name with anyone who stoops to a level of belittleing someone else to try and make themselves look better, if this is the approach you must take to prove yourself then i feel sorry for you.

C.Johnson, you appear to be confused about how quotes are displayed on InspectionNews threads. The "mud slinging" line...

and the other is for those who want instant gratification and is looking for the easy way out.

... in my post wasn't made by me. I was merely quoting Scott Patterson and agreeing with him. Quotes appear in a darker box and have the word "Quote:" above them.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

C.Johnson, you appear to be confused about how quotes are displayed on InspectionNews threads. The "mud slinging" line...... in my post wasn't made by me. I was merely quoting Scott Patterson and agreeing with him. Quotes appear in a darker box and have the word "Quote:" above them.

I'm not confused but you are DELUSIONAL!

Did i spell that right!? Does this make me a certified inspector now in your eyes!?

Please continue in your ways, and I'll go the other way!

Does this make me a certified inspector now in your eyes!?

I'm sorry, but no. To be a "certified inspector in my eyes" you would have to complete this Can you guess what inspection trade association requires all this? - InterNACHI

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

I'm sorry, but no. To be a "certified inspector in my eyes" you would have to complete this Can you guess what inspection trade association requires all this?

Actually they don't require all that. Take the 120 question open book, non proctored, online spelling test and give them a credit card number and you're instantly a certified inspector.

Nobody ever checks to see if you've completed any of the other tests, quizzes, etc as long as you pay your fee every year. In fact their "certification" is so meaningless that Pro Lab will give you a years membership as a bonus gift. Home Inspection Tools & Equipment - The ReliableLab Store

Incorrect. Each member is issued their own online CE log that auto registers everything they complete in live-time. These course completions become part of each member's unique training transcript which provides a time-stamped record of each member's education. We have data-sharing agreements with most licensed states so that successful course completions are auto-sent to the licensing authority upon completion of each exam. Our free, online inspection training courses enjoy nearly 500 government agency approvals How to become a home inspector: Free Inspector Education and Training - InterNACHI. The PRO-LAB offer (PRO-LAB is our sister laboratory) you mention, only relieves the member of his/her first year's dues, but does not lessen our membership ramp-up requirements, which are the best and most robust in the industry, undisputed.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Incorrect. Each member is issued their own online CE log that auto registers everything they complete in live-time. These course completions become part of each member's unique training transcript which provides a time-stamped record of each member's education. We have data-sharing agreements with most licensed states so that successful course completions are auto-sent to the licensing authority upon completion of each exam. Our free, online inspection training courses enjoy nearly 500 government agency approvals How to become a home inspector: Free Inspector Education and Training -. The PRO-LAB offer (PRO-LAB is our sister laboratory) you mention, only relieves the member of his/her first year's dues, but does not lessen our membership ramp-up requirements, which are the best and most robust in the industry, undisputed.

Really? Exactly how many members have you terminated for not meeting your "membership ramp-up requirements"?

Very, very few. Almost no one in the industry quits InterNACHI or refuses to comply with our rules when asked. Our $50,000.00 worth of free membership benefits creates a velvet trap that cause members do whatever it takes to stay in. We are quit certain that InterNACHI has the highest retention rate of any trade association in the world, except for AAA. Many of our benefits are marketing related and provide competitive advantages that our members deem invaluable.

As for CE, our problem isn't getting members to take it (since it is conveniently online and free). Our problem is developing courses fast enough to keep up with demand. Currently we have hundreds of hours of free, approved inspection training courses available online for our members, but we could have many thousands and still not satisfy our member's appetite for more.

You failed to answer the question. Exactly how many members have you terminated for not meeting your "membership ramp-up requirements"?

Let's make it easier for you. What percentage are automatically audited every year to determine if they have met your "membership ramp-up requirements"?

Your first question is a repeat. Asked and answered. See my first 3 words in my previous post.

As for a percentage, it would be 1/12th. I think that is 8%/year and then some licensed states perform random audits as well.

Again though, because our courses are the very best in the industry, state-approved, conveniently online, and totally free, demand for them far exceeds supply at InterNACHI.

I suspect that failure to fulfill CE requirements might be a problem at one of those old-fashioned associations that are still hanging in there, as they don't offer state-approved, online training for free. Their members still have to travel to and pay for CE like stupid animals.

FOR EVERY PERSON THAT ANSWERS LISA OR BEN THEY ARE GIVING THEM THE OPPORTUNITY FOR FREE MARKETING.

ANYTHING YOU SAY TO THEM OR QUESTION YOU ASK THEM THEY GET TO EXPLAIN THEIR BUSINESSES IN DETAIL PLYING THEIR ENDLESS RANTS ABOUT THERE BUSINESS AND ASSOCIATION.

THE ONLY REASON LISA AND BEN COME ON HERE FOR IS TO GET FREE ADVERTISING FOR THEIR BUSINESS AND ASSOCIATION.

STOP ANSWERING THEM ABOUT ANYTHING OR ASKING THEM QUESTIONS ABOUT ANYTHING BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU DO THEY HAVE REASON TO PUSH AND PUSH AND PUSH AND PUSH THEIR FREE ADVERTISING.

THEY ARE ONLY HERE TO ADVERTISE FOR FREE. PERIOD

I GUARANTY THEY, OR AT LEAST LISA WILL ANSWER TO WHAT I AM SAYING NOW. PLEASE IGNORE IT AND NOT RESPOND TO HER ANYMORE. SHE, THEY, WILL GO AWAY.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

FOR EVERY PERSON THAT ANSWERS LISA OR BEN THEY ARE GIVING THEM THE OPPORTUNITY FOR FREE MARKETING.
.

Geesh Ted, I was going to post about the exact same thing. Maybe one or two rebuttals just to prod them a bit.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Your first question is a repeat. Asked and answered. See my first 3 words in my previous post.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Very, very few.

To refresh your memory the question was, "Exactly how many members have you terminated for not meeting your "membership ramp-up requirements"?"

I really don't think "very, very few" is an answer to the question. Maybe you meant to say "None, because we don't audit our membership"?