Thread: A Question for Legal Experts

The HI performs an inspection for the buyer in a FSBO deal, no realtors.
The buyer uses the inspection report as a reason to back away and now demands a return of his deposit. The seller demands to see the report. The buyer is traveling, says talk to the inspector. Buyer sends an email request to the HI.
Is the inspector obliged in any way to give up the report to the seller?

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Originally Posted by John Kogel

The HI performs an inspection for the buyer in a FSBO deal, no realtors.
The buyer uses the inspection report as a reason to back away and now demands a return of his deposit. The seller demands to see the report. The buyer is traveling, says talk to the inspector. Buyer sends an email request to the HI.
Is the inspector obliged in any way to give up the report to the seller?

No he is not. If your client says it is ok and you decide to be a nice guy then go ahead and give it to the seller.

If the client has no get out of jail free insert or contract with the seller to get out of jail after the inspection then I would pretty much say his deposit is lost. Disclosure from the home seller to others does not have to be from a paper someone else hands him. He ios legaly bound by disclosure laws to give up any concerns in the home that have been fpound but you are still not obligated to him for anything. Your contract is not with him even if you only had a verbal contract with your client,. It is with your client only.

Thanks Ted. Does the seller have a legal right to see the content of the report before handing back the deposit?

If the 'defect' is deemed to be frivolous, like a loose knob or a stain, can he then refuse to cough up?

Originally Posted by John Kogel

The HI performs an inspection for the buyer in a FSBO deal, no realtors.
The buyer uses the inspection report as a reason to back away and now demands a return of his deposit. The seller demands to see the report. The buyer is traveling, says talk to the inspector. Buyer sends an email request to the HI.
Is the inspector obliged in any way to give up the report to the seller?

Mr. Kogel: No. In fact, in Texas, without written permission from your client, you cannot allow access to the report by others.

Originally Posted by Elliot Franson

Mr. Kogel: No. In fact, in Texas, without written permission from your client, you cannot allow access to the report by others.

The HI has a written e-mail and a phone request, "Please send the seller a copy of the report so he will refund my deposit".

Does the seller have a right to see the report contents? Can he contest the findings by calling them insignificant?

Even if the seller reads the report he may not be able to tell why the buyer backed out unless there was a big hidden defect you discovered. I would go ahead and send the report to the seller and copy the buyer with the email. I would not answer any questions the seller has about the report unless they came through the buyer in writing and I would only respond to the buyer with the answer. In my opinion you owe the seller nothing.

Originally Posted by John Kogel

The HI has a written e-mail and a phone request, "Please send the seller a copy of the report so he will refund my deposit".

Does the seller have a right to see the report contents? Can he contest the findings by calling them insignificant?

If your client has requested that you send the seller a copy of the report, then send the seller a copy of the report.

We (You, I and the church mouse) do not have any idea what is in the sales contract in regards to contingency requirements of the contract. Sure the seller can contest anything they want, but that is not your problem or concern. You just reported what you found during the inspection. Your client would be the one to fight the battle if the seller does not refund the earnest money.

Originally Posted by John Kogel

Buyer sends an email request to the HI.
Is the inspector obliged in any way to give up the report to the seller?

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

If your client has requested that you send the seller a copy of the report, then send the seller a copy of the report.

I believe the others missed that part while Scott saw it.

Yes, e-mail a copy of YOUR client's report as YOUR client *requested* you do so.

I would say that you have an obligation to help your client in that manner as their ability to get out of the contract may depend on delivery of the report to the seller within a certain time frame, and the seller NOT getting a copy of the report may have negative connotations for your client and their ability to get out of the deal.

While I had, on each page of my report, that the report was copyrighted and I retained the copyright and everyone had to ask for permission to use or copy the report (other than my client, of course) I would put the report on my web site, give my client a username and password to access the report so they could download it and print it, and tell them they could give that username and password to whomever they wanted to.

Sometimes, the client's attorney would call and say that I see your report is copyrighted, do I need to send you a written request for written permission to use the report? I would say 'Yes.', and I would never get that request (I think I did get it once, maybe) as they would simply download and print the report - which was expressly prohibited and they agreed to hold me harmless by doing what they did.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

I believe the others missed that part while Scott saw it.

Yes, e-mail a copy of YOUR client's report as YOUR client *requested* you do so.

I would say that you have an obligation to help your client in that manner as their ability to get out of the contract may depend on delivery of the report to the seller within a certain time frame, and the seller NOT getting a copy of the report may have negative connotations for your client and their ability to get out of the deal.

While I had, on each page of my report, that the report was copyrighted and I retained the copyright and everyone had to ask for permission to use or copy the report (other than my client, of course) I would put the report on my web site, give my client a username and password to access the report so they could download it and print it, and tell them they could give that username and password to whomever they wanted to.

Sometimes, the client's attorney would call and say that I see your report is copyrighted, do I need to send you a written request for written permission to use the report? I would say 'Yes.', and I would never get that request (I think I did get it once, maybe) as they would simply download and print the report - which was expressly prohibited and they agreed to hold me harmless by doing what they did.

If one wants to get technical...It is the clients responsibility and not the inspectors responsibility to distribute the report. By sending the report to the seller one is just being a nice guy to do so. There is nothing legally binding the inspector to the seller or contacting the seller or sending the seller anything.

This is just one of those buyers that is not taking the responsibility he should have taken in the transaction or ion this case the non transaction of a home purchase.

Why would the buyer feel that he could just disappear and leave it on the inspector. If he was in the middle of a purchase of a home and had not decided to buy or discharge the property then why the heck is he not around taking care of it.

To the original poster. You have no responsibility to the seller or even the buyer at this point. You did the job you were paid for. You did not leave town in the middle of a transaction.

Now....with all that said. Send the report to the seller. It is the nice thing to do. Even if the buyer is a putz.

If a buyer backs out of a sale due to a deficiency detailed in the report, they may be obligated to provide documentation of such to the seller if written into the contract.

I would send the report as requested by my client so he would not be disinclined to use me for his next inspection.

Interesting post. There might be a concern arising out of getting involved in the seller-buyer exchange, though we often do that to some degree. Ultimately, it is up to the buyer to deal with the situation, and the seller is probably being difficult. Sellers do that when they get emotional. In one instance, my client requested repairs based on the inspection. He then had me return to check that the repairs had been done. Among the repairs my client requested were an AC unit service and replacing pointed screws holding the panel cover in place. On my review, I was shown the service invoice for the AC unit, which stated "unit worn out, run 'till dead." As for the pointed screws at the electrical panel, "our electrician said that was OK." I told my client what I found. Closing came and went, and my client did not show. My phone rang. First the sellers. Then the real estate agents. All demanding to know what I told my client. I contacted my client, he said to tell them "what ever you want to tell them." Well, I didn't tell them what I wanted to tell them, but I did tell them that the communication was confidential, and I wasn't sharing. In this instance, I think I would find a way to encourage the buyer to provide the necessary information to the seller himself.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

If one wants to get technical...It is the clients responsibility and not the inspectors responsibility to distribute the report. By sending the report to the seller one is just being a nice guy to do so. There is nothing legally binding the inspector to the seller or contacting the seller or sending the seller anything.

Originally Posted by Leigh Goodman

I would send the report as requested by my client so he would not be disinclined to use me for his next inspection.

Leigh got it, Ted missed it.

Originally Posted by John Kogel

The HI performs an inspection for the buyer in a FSBO deal, no realtors.
The buyer uses the inspection report as a reason to back away and now demands a return of his deposit. The seller demands to see the report. The buyer is traveling, says talk to the inspector. Buyer sends an email request to the HI.
Is the inspector obliged in any way to give up the report to the seller?

John:

I realize this is an older post but perhaps I can offer some imput as to others.

There are two areas of law involved here - Property Law and Agency Law.

First, remember the report is the property of whomever paid for the report. It is not your property. Sooo generally, if the other party gets nosy and wants to pick you for some information just say "I have a fiduciary duty to the the buyer to keep all information confidential because he/she paid for the report". OK so far?

Now, let's examine agency law. You are an agent of the person who hired you and pays you. In this case, you are directly hired by the buyer. If the buyer (your principal) says to send the report to the seller - send it but DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT AND DOCUMENT.

Be careful, the buyer may be an attorney who uses ambiguous language. In this case, you want the "buyer" to put in writing to the effect that he/she demands you send the report to the opposing party and assumes all liability for such - your attorney can put this together for you.

As an agent, you must obey unless you have knowledge of a shady deal which in this case you don't. Make sure the shady buyer (or seller) contract is not on a commission basis. Do it straight and there will be no problem.

Thanks to all and, no, this is not that old of a post, that is, no I don't need a quick answer here. Take as long as you like.

On request from my client the buyer to send the report to the seller, I have sent a brief SUMMARY of the report, like an emailed hit list, to the seller. In the past this has satisfied both sides.
But it is good to know where you stand before the need to know arises, like when the phone starts ringing.

Vincent Haller Smith]
Now, let's examine agency law. You are an agent of the person who hired you and pays you. In this case, you are directly hired by the buyer. If the buyer (your principal) says to send the report to the seller - send it but DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT AND DOCUMENT.

Does a note on a scratch pad qualify as a Document? How would one document everything said verbally or over the phone?

Originally Posted by Vincent Haller Smith

John:

I realize this is an older post but perhaps I can offer some imput as to others.

There are two areas of law involved here - Property Law and Agency Law.

First, remember the report is the property of whomever paid for the report. It is not your property. Sooo generally, if the other party gets nosy and wants to pick you for some information just say "I have a fiduciary duty to the the buyer to keep all information confidential because he/she paid for the report". OK so far?

Now, let's examine agency law. You are an agent of the person who hired you and pays you. In this case, you are directly hired by the buyer. If the buyer (your principal) says to send the report to the seller - send it but DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT AND DOCUMENT.

Be careful, the buyer may be an attorney who uses ambiguous language. In this case, you want the "buyer" to put in writing to the effect that he/she demands you send the report to the opposing party and assumes all liability for such - your attorney can put this together for you.

As an agent, you must obey unless you have knowledge of a shady deal which in this case you don't. Make sure the shady buyer (or seller) contract is not on a commission basis. Do it straight and there will be no problem.

As an agent that already finished his contract with the buyer he has no obligation to send it (the report) anywhere. Also the buyer has no right or legal contract to be able to demand anything from his home inspector that already finished his contract with him.

He inspected. He created a report. He got paid. He hands over the report to the buyer.

Contract finished. No obligation what so ever to the buyer with the exception that he may have blatantly missed something and may be bound to pay for it.

Your legal arm extended way to far. Just because he created a report for a man on a home the man is thinking of buying it does not give him any right what so ever to tell or demand anything from the home inspector with the exception if the home inspector screwed up and then he has no rights unless legal action is taken and then the demands can come from the court officers if it is legal for them to do so.

Taht would be like saying that if I were at an inspection that the client has the right to tell me anything at the inspection. He is paying for the findings on the property only. He is in no way his boss.

What make you think that the buyer can demand anything of the home inspector other than getting the lost of concerns on the property only after he hands the inspector money for those findings.

I inspect for no one. I create a report after an inspection and that is what the client is paying for. I schedule the inspection and get permission to go into a sellers home to perform a home inspection on that sellers home. The only thing a buyer has over me is me handing him an inspection report on the SELLERS property after he pays me for such. It is not the buyers property yet. He has no rights to this property thus has no control over me at the inspection. I completely control the inspection and have control over anyone in the home because I am the one that received permission to enter and inspect the property. Anyone coming into the home is my guest to review what findings I may have at that property. If someone is out of control at the home I regain control and re explain the situation.

If someone tries to gain some kind of control at the inspection the inspection stops and I explain the situation. When everything is understood I proceed with the inspection. I perform the inspection under TREC SOPs ans Ethics not the sellers SOPs or the Realtors SOPs or the buyers SOPs and for that matter none of their ethics. The only time I have ever had a problem at an inspection is when someone walks in and tries to tell me what to do, how to inspect or how to explain my findings or for that matter if a client asks not to put a particular item in the report because they are going to fix it. Tuff....it is going in the report.

As far as the report being someone else's property. Maybe so but I hold a copy of the report so I guess while it is in my possession it is my property and always will be. Some have been known to change report wordings and the only way we to maintain the original integrity of the report is for home inspectors to keep a copy of their property The buyer is the one getting the copy and that copy is their property. Home inspectors never surrender ownership of the report. As far as passing any copies on to anyone then we would need permission but could never be told or demanded by the buyer to do anything such as "you must give the seller a copy" as I mentioned before. That is complete bull.

Sorry....Just have a tough time with anyone placing any demands or assume that anyone but the law....as in the courts can demand anything of me.

I just had a buyer demand that I pay her for a hose bib repair that I happened to take a picture of and it was in excellent health when I was there. The Realtor also tried to demand I pay for the repair. Right, like I am going to answer to any demand. They have no hold over me unless it is perused legally. This woman is doing about 20,000 in work on upgrades to the home and wanted me to pay a hundred to fix something I did not break. The warranty man said it was pre existing.......NOT the first time that has been tried.

After that very long winded babble. No...the buyer cannot demand any such thing. The inspector did his job. He needs to send the report to the seller if he wants his money back......If that is what the contract between the 2 of them actually says.

After all this legal mumbo jumbo I strongly advise the OP to stay away from this and let the seller and buyer battle it out. He has no obligation to the buyer or the seller to do so.( Legal )
He did his task of compiling a report on a home that the buyer is thinking of buying. got payed, handed a COPY of the report to the buyer.......end of contract. He is no longer an agent. The only leagal obligation from this point on is if he blatantly missed something and his contract did not cover.

And how long do you think that the home inspector is an agent for that buyer????????

Only until the contract ends. After that it is all the courts or possibly his state licensing.

And how long do you think that the home inspector is an agent for that buyer????????

Only until the contract ends.

Thanks, Ted, good point.

Mr. Niceguy needs to learn when to cut the tie with the client. Mr. Wishywashy can't decide when.

I don't know. Sounds funny.

If my buyer wants the seller to have the report I would wonder why he didn't just forward it himself. Why call me to do it? It strikes me as weird.

I would comply. (hey, Imma good guy). But I would want that request documented. As in, "Yes Mr. client. I can do that. Could you send the request with the seller's email address in in?" I would send it but keep that email just in case...

Simple, put something equal to this in your inspection agreement:

Client agrees to allow inspector to distribute report as he deems necessary unless this line is crossed out and inspector is emailed of the change to the agreement.

Over five years, never had anyone opt out of this and I meet all state SOPS concerning report delivery.

The last post missed the fact that the client was traveling and had no way to forward the report to the seller.

Originally Posted by Bruce King

Simple, put something equal to this in your inspection agreement:

Client agrees to allow inspector to distribute report as he deems necessary unless this line is crossed out and inspector is emailed of the change to the agreement.

Over five years, never had anyone opt out of this and I meet all state SOPS concerning report delivery.

The last post missed the fact that the client was traveling and had no way to forward the report to the seller.

Which should have been taken into account before he went out of town like maybe finishing the transaction or bringing with him what was needed. The responsibility of the buyer has gone array in the inspection business. Besides it is a little more involved with sending a copy of the report to the seller. It is being sent to get out of a contract and to get money back. Who do you think the seller is going to go after for answers to comments in the report. The inspector has no obligation what so ever to the seller and is being put into position to be obliged...why? Because the putz did not bring a copy of the report to go over with the seller. I may forward the report off to where ever the buyer went and let him handle it as he should and wash my hands of it all. A future inspection will not be enough payment to get involved in the middle of this.

Yes it is actually all quite a simple matter of sending a report off but as more and more keeps getting interjected into the conversation I find that the buyer is a putz and accounted for none of this before going away. The whole thing that was suggested earlier that one must do this or that or one is legally bound to do this or that is foolish. The whole agent thing....

Just the simple fact the the legal eagle weighed in shows you just how foolish it has become with lawyers actually thinking that the inspector is an agent for life and must do anything the clients "demands " of him. Or even thinking that the inspector is under some time of contractual handcuff for ever.

Becoming a battle for getting a deposit back is something I would want to stay as far away from as possible. You will not recoup enough from inspection 2 for the possible time spent playing the middle man. The middle man it not part of my job description.

A few questions to ponder:

If the client has told you to send a copy to whoever, then what is the problem with sending it?

Why would you not want to send a copy of the report if your client has given you permission and has asked you to do it?

Wouldn't you rather the seller to have a copy of the report from you, than one that has possibly been altered by your client or another party?

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

A few questions to ponder:

If the client has told you to send a copy to whoever, then what is the problem with sending it?

Why would you not want to send a copy of the report if your client has given you permission and has asked you to do it?

Wouldn't you rather the seller to have a copy of the report from you, than one that has possibly been altered by your client or another party?

#1

My whole question here is WHY he did not take care of business of getting his money back before he left. If it was a time crunch then he should have prepared himself to handle it where ever he happened to go.

My next point is the "TELLING YOU TO DO SO" Other than being a nice guy like I mentioned far above there is no obligation to do so. In this case it truly sounds like the buyer intentionally left it in the inspectors hands....Not his job or obligation to get in the middle of getting money back.

I hate to repeat myself but hey...why not. Where does it say that you HAVE to do anything a client "TELLS" you to do. Your only job after the report is given to a client is............wait............nothing other than going over it with him. The rest is on him.

#2

It is not your job to send a report to a seller. Why would you want to get into the mess of trying to get his money back.

#3

Report from you to the seller that is already backing away from giving money back and sounds like it is about to get very involved.....Why would you want any involvement in that.


Back to the beginning.

I am shocked that so many of you think a client has the right or you have an obligation to allow your client to TELL you to do anything. So many have used that term or something close to it but it amounts to the same thing. It sounds like you are literally saying that because you completed your only obligation as in informing the client of the concerns in the home the obligation to do as you are told, or you are legally bound to, or you must answer the demands of your client etc etc etc is the general rule of thought on this matter. Once you fulfilled your obligation there is no more obligation and your past client is just that...your past client.

As I stated above I more than likely just have forwarded the report off to the seller. But as I also stated earlier....the more I hear (read) the replies from so many...I doubt I will ever do that again.

Now, all of this is just talk and trying to become less bewildered as to why so many think (other than the normally school of thought about future referrals, being a nice guy, not wanting to burn bridges etc) why so many feel that they are in an indentured slave mode about , once a client....always and forever a client and you are obliged for ever and ever to do as you are asked or told or demanded of.

As far as the statement "If the client has told you to" "what is the problem"

WOW

Lots of problems with that. Never mind the rest of it.

[quote=Ted Menelly;142420]As an agent that already finished his contract with the buyer he has no obligation to send it (the report) anywhere.

Ted:

Some of your points are well taken. Let's back up a bit. My purpose is to offer general information on the legal aspect of Inspections and duties owed.

I am not privy to the poster's particular contract or for that matter the fodder you have in your contracts. It is not my intention to interpret particular contracts nor would I be such a fool to do so on a public forum. On the other hand, IT IS MY INTENTION to educate folks so they may communicate intellegently with their attorney, client and if necessary the Court. OK so far?

Now, let's review your post. Your first statement: "As an agent that already finished his contract with the buyer, he has no obligation to ...the buyer". You may be correct - but wait.....How do you know when and if the contract is finished? What was expressly stipulated in the contract? You may say the contract is finished but will the court determine the contract is finished? How long and to what extent will you stand behind your work? Do you include exclulpatory, indemnity and hold harmless clauses IN YOUR FAVOR in the contract? The point is, because you dilivered does not mean you can just walk away. More about this on another post.

Secondly, and you bring up a good point. I quote: "He inspected. He created a report. He got paid. He hands over the report to the buyer....Contract finished. No obligation" Here, there is a question as to whether an inspector's report falls under INTELLECTUAL LAW. The issue is whether 5 inspectors would come up with 5 differening reports or all 5 inspectors would come up with the same deficiencies in their report? Think about this one.

Thirdly, you say; an inspector "creates" a report. Inspectors should use the term "DEVELOPES A REPORT". Small point but will kill you in court i.e. intellectual v. scienter (legal term). I am sure you don't create things that are not there. Our job is to OBSERVE AND REPORT AS AN UNINTERESTED PARTY PERIOD!

Let's now back up a bit. I am still on your side Ted. We understand that we do not sacrifice our integrity where the buyer (or seller or agent) asks us to overlook something no matter how minor - do we? The inspector is potentially liable for several years on screw ups. Have you ever screwed up? I have completed untold thousands of home and commercial inspections. You bet your bippy I missed many things along the way. The point is that you can be held liable post contract completion even if you completed an absolutely FLAWLESS inspection. This is a he said - she said situation. I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH HOW VULNERABLE THE INSPECTOR IS - DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT AND DOCUMENT SOME MORE. Get sued on a flawless inspection? Go in with your field notes and notes taken in conversation as between EVERY communication with your client or the opposing party and the case will get thrown out before discovery. DOCUMENT!

Finally and this is all I have time for right now....You say; "As far as the report being someone else's property, maybe so but I hold a copy of the report so I guess while it is in my possession it is my property and always will be"......Ted, let's take a look at this a bit closer. If I paint a portrait of you and you pay me, the portrait is YOUR property. If you do not pay me, the portrait is still your property (contract law) but I can sue you for payment PLUS my damages in not getting paid. When you "develope" (not create) a report for a client, you can choose to hold the report as ransom for payment but I would turn over the report then sue the bastard for payment plus damages for breach of contract - just some thoughts and I do understand your points.

Vince

Originally Posted by John Kogel

Thanks to all and, no, this is not that old of a post, that is, no I don't need a quick answer here. Take as long as you like.

On request from my client the buyer to send the report to the seller, I have sent a brief SUMMARY of the report, like an emailed hit list, to the seller. In the past this has satisfied both sides.
But it is good to know where you stand before the need to know arises, like when the phone starts ringing.



Does a note on a scratch pad qualify as a Document? How would one document everything said verbally or over the phone?

John:
I will answer you quickly because I am short on time. ABSOLUTELY, A NOTE ON A SCRATCH PAD QUALIFIES AS DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE FOR PURPOSES OF PROTECTING YOU in any suit. Keep your notes filed for atleast 2 years after the purchase-sale.

Quick example:

I am the buyer and contract with you to inspect my purchase. The listing agent phones you and asks how things are going.

SCRATCH PAD NOTES: 8/21/2010 - "Agent John Smith phoned me today asking how things were going. I responded "I am still working on the report". 8/21/2010 10:30PM.

This stuff takes a minute or so but can save your butt in the event. Generally, you are permitted to refer to your notes under direct and cross. Such notes are a "KILLER" in court. I STRESS THAT INSPECTORS CAN BE SUED NO MATTER HOW PERFECT THEIR REPORT. Inspectors are open to suits at will. Document and you will never have to worry about paying. If you keep good notes (documentation), countersue in your answer to the complaint. Afterall, if some bastard sues you out of the blue for no good reason, you should make some money for your time and effort in having to respond to this fivolous action. It all evens out in the long run.

Vince

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Leigh got it, Ted missed it.

YOU GOT IT! Your principal is at fault not you. This follows the ancient legal rule of MASTER- SERVANT relationship which I explained on another post somewhere. If the Master instructs you to send the report (while the fiduciary relationship is in force - see my post to Ted), send it or you can be sued by the Master. BUT DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT AND DOCUMENT SOME MORE AS TO THE CORRESPONDENCE. I am beginning to sound like a recording LOL. Really mean this guys and gals.

There can be difficulties where "Vicarious Liability" and indemnity is imposed as I will explain down the road. Construct your contracts carefully.

Vince

Originally Posted by Vincent Haller Smith

YOU GOT IT! Your principal is at fault not you. This follows the ancient legal rule of MASTER- SERVANT relationship which I explained on another post somewhere. If the Master instructs you to send the report (while the fiduciary relationship is in force - see my post to Ted), send it or you can be sued by the Master. BUT DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT AND DOCUMENT SOME MORE AS TO THE CORRESPONDENCE. I am beginning to sound like a recording LOL. Really mean this guys and gals.

There can be difficulties where "Vicarious Liability" and indemnity is imposed as I will explain down the road. Construct your contracts carefully.

Vince

Vince

The client cannot instruct you to do anything but "please hand me the report with the concerns on the potential purchase I may make and I will pay you for it." There is no master-slave or indentured servant. The only hold he may have over you or anyway he can instruct you to or demand from you is through a court of law later if you piss him off or miss something.

As far as the inspection goes......An inspector is not inspecting the clients purchase. The inspector is inspecting the sellers home. While you are inspecting that sellers home you have no obligation to the client. When you finish inspecting the sellers home and then "create" a report from you findings from the sellers home the only obligation to the client is to pass a report one way while cash is being past the other way and the explanation of such report....to the client....not the seller...not a builder....not a Real Estate Agent. There is no Master-Slave. You keep mentioning this like he has a never ending hold over you. He has none "UNLESS" he pursues a legal action against you for something you miss or for something he believes he is entitled to get from you and then he still has no say or is able to demand anything, but the court does.

If your licensed state says it is a year or 2 or 3 years down the road where a client can come back on you then he still has to pursue it thru the courts. He has no hold over you. There is no Master-Slave relationship.

Just my thoughts. You just seem to be bent on the client can demand this or demand that directly to you and or tell you something and you must do it.

Again, just some thoughts and opinions. I personaly let the client and anyone else involved know that I do not work for them. I Inspect, I create a report from that inspection, the client that is very short lived pays me for the findings on the sellers home I inspected. It is clear that there will be no outside influence what so ever from any party including the man the in the end buys the report. I inspect for no one. They want the findings, they pay me for them.

I do not mean to sound like mister hard ball here because if the truth be known I am the nicest man you could ever meet.......UNLESS!

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

If your licensed state says it is a year or 2 or 3 years down the road where a client can come back on you then he still has to pursue it thru the courts. He has no hold over you.

There is no Master-Slave relationship.

Just my thoughts. Again, just some thoughts and opinions.

Ted, does a client ever phone you days later, asking for clarification of a point in the report?

I see the inspection process as a service and you can offer good service or crappy service, that a business decision, eh? I have found by offering to help any way I can, I get on-side with my client and there are no reason for disputes.

But right now, it's "the ancient legal rule" versus your thoughts and opinions. Does your lawyer back up your opinion on this?

Originally Posted by John Kogel

Ted, does a client ever phone you days later, asking for clarification of a point in the report?

I see the inspection process as a service and you can offer good service or crappy service, that a business decision, eh? I have found by offering to help any way I can, I get on-side with my client and there are no reason for disputes.

But right now, it's "the ancient legal rule" versus your thoughts and opinions. Does your lawyer share your opinions in this?

Yes, to a point. Of course to make a point I stretch it a little to get the point across but in general everything I said is true

As far as answering questions about the report...sure. Why wouldn't I. Trust me, I have a good relationship with my clients until certain boundaries are crossed then they are discarded and usually happily so. Like I said, this is all just talk. I said I would have passed the report off to the seller if my client asked me to. I have no basic problem with that. This is a little different as this is entering into a dispute between the buyer and seller with the buyer wanting his money back and the seller not wanting to give it back. Also you have the entire point that the transaction was not complete and the guy leaves town and did nt prepare himself to handle any situation at hand to end the transaction.

Then there was the strong point from everyone that " If he told you to do something then do it" Or "It is your obligation to do so" Or "You are legally bound to" Or the best part "Master Slave" None of that is a fact. The only control a client has over you after he hands you a check and you in turn hand him the concerns with the home is thru the courts later if he wants something that is not coming to him or you actually screw up pretty bad.. Only the courts can demand anything from you. The past momentary client has no relationship with you unless you choose to have one. You are not obliged to do anything but defend yourself against his possible actions.

Anyway. Like I said. Initially I would have just emailed the report off if the client said it was OK to do so......but not if he demanded it. There is a serious difference with the two. If a client demands anything from you I suggest you have your lawyer give him a call.

Either that or ....I have this friend Tony

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Vince

The client cannot instruct you to do anything but "please hand me the report I do not mean to sound like mister hard ball here because if the truth be known I am the nicest man you could ever meet.......UNLESS!

Ted: Bet you are the nicest person in the world. We know the rudiments of inspections, dealing with a client and the PR factor. Chances are the majority of inspectors will go through their career and never get sued?

The sole purpose of my posts is to educate inspectors as to the legal aspect of protecting their business. We happen to be discussing negligence suits. There is soooo much more.

Thinking about posting some information on the topic as to how to make money as an expert witness if I get enough interest.

Vince

Originally Posted by Vincent Haller Smith

Thinking about posting some information on the topic as to how to make money as an expert witness if I get enough interest.

Vince

I'm on the edge of my seat! (BTW thanks joining IN)

Originally Posted by Bruce King

The last post missed the fact that the client was traveling and had no way to forward the report to the seller.

Not sure I missed it at all, Bruce. The request just strikes me as odd. I do not call others to tie up my loose ends. So, I am dealing with someone escaping their responsibilities or is setting me up. Maybe I'm a bit cynical.

Like I said, I would take care of it but it would raise a little red flag to me. Could be nothing. Maybe he was just in a jam and looking for help...

Originally Posted by Tom King

Not sure I missed it at all, Bruce. The request just strikes me as odd. I do not call others to tie up my loose ends. So, I am dealing with someone escaping their responsibilities or is setting me up. Maybe I'm a bit cynical.

"Maybe I'm a bit cynical."

I could agree with that.

I used to FREQUENTLY send my reports to agents, sellers, builders, etc., when my client asked me to ... but then, I guess that is one of the reasons I could charge so much, huh? Because I actually did things for my clients.

Like I said, I would take care of it but it would raise a little red flag to me. Could be nothing. Maybe he was just in a jam and looking for help...

I see that little red flag too, but it is being raised because there are inspectors here who think that DOING WHAT THEIR CLIENT WANTS is a dangerous thing ... and maybe it is ... if you do not want to be known as a top notch, top end inspector who does things for their clients.

Notice that nothing is being said about repairing things or anything like that, just a simply request to give the report to the seller, and which could be so simply done with an e-mail and the report attached.

I just do not get you guys refusing to do something that simple, there are no drawbacks to it.

But then, that is one of the beauties of putting your reports on the internet for your client - they can share the report with whomever they chose.

When I read the original post I got this impression.

Buyer has inspection, wants to back out of the deal. Buyer asks Seller for deposit back. Sellers says he wants to see the report before he gives him his money back. Buyer calls inspector and ASKS him to forward a copy of report to Seller.

I didn't see anywhere in the first post where the Buyer/Client demanded anything. He was out of town and didn't have access to the report and asked the inspector to send one.

The contract between the Buyer and Seller may very well have a clause in it for just such an event. I really don't see a problem.

If my client asks me to forward the report to anyone I will do it at his request. Its a few mouse clicks -not a big deal. In TN, the report goes to both agents anyway.

Jack and Jerry.

I agree with you both. Probably no big deal. I would comply just as you two would and I'm sure many others would comply too(even if not thrilled about it). The little red flag just goes up a bit. But when odd issue number two arises....or number 3 or big issues start to come up, I'm just suggesting you aren't totally surprised because of that first little flag.

Thinking about posting some information on the topic as to how to make money as an expert witness if I get enough interest.

All ears or should I say eyes...

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

"Maybe I'm a bit cynical."

I could agree with that.

I used to FREQUENTLY send my reports to agents, sellers, builders, etc., when my client asked me to ... but then, I guess that is one of the reasons I could charge so much, huh? Because I actually did things for my clients.



I see that little red flag too, but it is being raised because there are inspectors here who think that DOING WHAT THEIR CLIENT WANTS is a dangerous thing ... and maybe it is ... if you do not want to be known as a top notch, top end inspector who does things for their clients.

Notice that nothing is being said about repairing things or anything like that, just a simply request to give the report to the seller, and which could be so simply done with an e-mail and the report attached.

I just do not get you guys refusing to do something that simple, there are no drawbacks to it.

But then, that is one of the beauties of putting your reports on the internet for your client - they can share the report with whomever they chose.

Jerry

Why is it you have to add your overtone of Mr Superior Inspector. Seriously, it is a never ending "You are better than anyone" That is why you *ONCE* got more money

Did you not see the OP

The buyer demands his money back

The seller demands the report

The buyer is traveling and says "talk to the inspector" and also added that the "buyer sent an email to the inspector" He has access to email ???????? Send the damn report off himself.

An awful lot of demands heading back and forth and then the buyer directs the seller to the inspector to clear this whole mess up.

Did you notice that the buyer had access to email ?

Did you notice that he just dumps it all on the inspector ?

Did you notice the pause from the inspector as to "should I get involved in this mess"? Aren't you just a bit interested in why the buyer having access to email and all information just dumps it on the inspector? Certainly did not even sound like he discussed it with the inspector first before dumping it on him. Did you notice he said "talk to the inspector?" The inspector has absolutely nothing to do with the seller. He helps his client to the best of his ability but in no way does the inspector gets used as the "get me out of this contract" He already did that by compiling a report. He already did that with going over the report with the buyer.

No one here said they do not do things for their clients. No one here asked for Jerry Superior "I am the best thing since sliced bread remarks" No one was knocking you or puting you down about how you handle things. Everyone here agrees that they do things for their clients. Everyone here also agrees that for future business counts on referrals from past clients.

Might I add one more time.........Did you notice how many demands were already going on before it gets dumped on the inspector when the buyer had access to email and telephone.

Now back to your superior elevation over anyone on this board. And back to the condescending remarks to other inspectors on this board because you wanted to show your superiority over every inspector on this board because everything you do is superior and perfect and everyone else is an idiot.

Do you really think that all of that in necessary Mr Jerry ???????????

Everyone wants the best for their clients.

Everyone here in general does send a copy of the report to multiple locations with no problem with it.

Re read the OP and maybe,,,,,,,,,just maybe,,,,,,,,,,you will understand why some might be a bit squeamish about getting involved in that mess.

Ted,

Seriously, you need to READ the posts and how they relate to each other as well as the original post - WHICH IS WHAT THE REST of the thread was relating to, and which is what my post was relating to - the post(s) in the thread to which it was replying.

SERIOUSLY ... you need to READ and FOLLOW what is going on before you bring out your superior highness attitude and try to lay that on someone else.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

The buyer is traveling and says "talk to the inspector" and also added that the "buyer sent an email to the inspector" He has access to email ???????? Send the damn report off himself.

Uh... Ted, the buyer MIGHT NOT HAVE THE REPORT WITH them, and therefore called their inspector to ASK their inspector to send the report to the seller.

Crimeny, HOW HARD CAN IT BE TO ACCOMMODATE YOUR CLIENT that way?

An awful lot of demands heading back and forth and then the buyer directs the seller to the inspector to clear this whole mess up.

Did you notice that the buyer had access to email ?

Did you notice that he just dumps it all on the inspector ?

Uh ... Ted ... where in there does it say the buyer HAS THE REPORT WITH THEM?

Just because they have access to e-mail does not mean they have the report with them.

YOU sure did jump w-a-y out on a limb with your suppositions as to what and why the client asked the inspector to send the report to the seller.

Re read the OP and maybe,,,,,,,,,just maybe,,,,,,,,,,you will understand why some might be a bit squeamish about getting involved in that mess.

Yes, YOU go back and re-read the original post, then explain why there is any reason for the inspector to pause and not send the report to the seller.

YOU need to get off your high-and-mighty rocking horse and actually think about what was said and the sequence of the replies. Maybe then your posts will make sense, in fact, maybe then you will post stuff which makes sense.

By the way, your "used to" comment ... I still get that money when I do inspections - I've had several clients over the past 4 years since I retired from home inspections who simply did not want anyone else, so I broke down and did their inspections for them, and the prices varied from a low of $2,800 to a high of $7,500. Yes, *I* *STILL* get that money when I do those inspections. I TRY NOT to do those inspections, I would prefer to have my clients call one of the very few people I have referred, even though those people do not do the inspections I did nor do they charge what I did.

Jeez, Ted, you need to take whatever meds A. D. has been on lately - he has been a lot better, but I think he is cutting back on his meds from the last few posts of his - maybe he will give you the ones he is hiding and not taking ...

Originally Posted by Mike Schulz

All ears or should I say eyes...

Mike:

I will begin the discussion of "EPERT WITNESS" by laying some ground rules. Do you need a college degree? If you have a bad reputation or spent time in prison, can you qualify as an expert witness? Finally, what is the pay?

Here is an interesting case which will give you some fodder for thought. The case in question centers around a cocaine deal gone sour. The police enter the apartment where the deal is taking place and the Defendant flushes the drugs down the toilet before the cops can identify the substance

At trial, the defendant's attorney claims his client sold the buyer nothing more than flour. The prosecution calls as its expert witness, a drug user who is still in prison. The case relies on whether the substance can be identified as cocaine.

The defense rightfully tells the judge that this person has no credibilily and cannot qualify as an expert witness.

The guy takes the stand and says "I started on Coke when I was eight years old. I ate drank and slept coke. Do I know what coke looks like? Feels Like? This has to be a joke! The court readily accepted him as an expert witness.

So, the legal rule is that as long as you have adequate knowledge or experience in a trade or profession, you qualify as an expert witness.

Now, the problem is whether you can communicate well under pressure and I would suggest taking courses in public speaking. Any experienced inspector will likely qualify.

If you have no fear in testifying under oath and are cool under pressure, the pay can be up to $500.00 per hour plus all travel expenses depending on the complexity and money involved in any one particular case.

In most cases, this is supplemental income only. However, some folks make a lucrative living in this field. Go on the internet and look up EXPERT WITNESS.

Vince

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Ted,

Seriously, you need to READ the posts and how they relate to each other as well as the original post - WHICH IS WHAT THE REST of the thread was relating to, and which is what my post was relating to - the post(s) in the thread to which it was replying.

SERIOUSLY ... you need to READ and FOLLOW what is going on before you bring out your superior highness attitude and try to lay that on someone else.



Uh... Ted, the buyer MIGHT NOT HAVE THE REPORT WITH them, and therefore called their inspector to ASK their inspector to send the report to the seller.

Crimeny, HOW HARD CAN IT BE TO ACCOMMODATE YOUR CLIENT that way?



Uh ... Ted ... where in there does it say the buyer HAS THE REPORT WITH THEM?

Just because they have access to e-mail does not mean they have the report with them.

YOU sure did jump w-a-y out on a limb with your suppositions as to what and why the client asked the inspector to send the report to the seller.



Yes, YOU go back and re-read the original post, then explain why there is any reason for the inspector to pause and not send the report to the seller.

YOU need to get off your high-and-mighty rocking horse and actually think about what was said and the sequence of the replies. Maybe then your posts will make sense, in fact, maybe then you will post stuff which makes sense.

By the way, your "used to" comment ... I still get that money when I do inspections - I've had several clients over the past 4 years since I retired from home inspections who simply did not want anyone else, so I broke down and did their inspections for them, and the prices varied from a low of $2,800 to a high of $7,500. Yes, *I* *STILL* get that money when I do those inspections. I TRY NOT to do those inspections, I would prefer to have my clients call one of the very few people I have referred, even though those people do not do the inspections I did nor do they charge what I did.

Jeez, Ted, you need to take whatever meds A. D. has been on lately - he has been a lot better, but I think he is cutting back on his meds from the last few posts of his - maybe he will give you the ones he is hiding and not taking ...

Still the same response with nothing different being said. You are still defending your self and placing yourself above the rest. I did not say you were actually saying anything about me but it sure does appear that all you want to talk about is how wonderful you are.

As far as pitting me with AD. Why would you say that Jerry? Same thing ....diminish others and place thine self on pedestal.

I happen to agree with most on here about your wealth of knowledge you spread freely on here. I for one do not agree with the downing of others as you have done for the entire 3 or 4 years I have been on here and placing yourself above the rest.

The red highlight Jerry.....did you read it yet....you wrote it....This entire thread was a discussion about the woulds and would not do's (if that is even in the slightest correct English) . Did you hear that part. A discussion. Almost everyone agreed that they would have sent the report off including myself on several occasions. The rest was discussion and opinions. No one was looking for insults or belittling.

Did you follow any of the posts?

A discussion is where people interact with one another Jerry. Where folks agree and disagree. Where folks state what they think about a particular situation and what they think about if the situation changes. Legalities were brought into the *discussion and then those legal thoughts were touched on. The demands of this and that and who has the right to demand from whom.

The buyer not having a report with him.....send him one so he can complete his transaction. He appears to have left his at home along with not being prepared and apparently did not want to deal with the seller directly. He *appears* to have wanted everyone else to take responsibility for his ineptness n(or wanted to not have to deal with it so leave town with nothing to complete the deal). Needing one on line for everyone....that is a totally different discussion.

This was not a discussion about how wonderful one person is and how idiotic and unprofessional and incompetent others appeared to be or about why no one appears to want to service their client. Again...no one ever said they do not take care of there clients including me. Just one that appears to need constant recognition of how wonderful they are.

And the AD thing????????? Please......do not go there. Was that really necessary?

By the way...I do not need your or ADs meds. I have plenty of my own. Its hell being on death row in the hospital but they do give you good meds

You are comparing me with AD......hmmmm, interesting!

Don't like a particular discussion that has everything to do with the OP ??

Don't get involved.

No high and mightiness at all. Where you got that anyone was being high and mighty......just a discussion. Strong opinions....yup. Again...all part of a discussion.

Even the OP understood that this was all just discussion.

Me make sense Jerry? Plenty of sense with everything I *discussed*. Again...more insults form the Jerry. Exactly why is that necessary again...it seems to have slipped my mind. Must be getting old or the rocker knocked some sense out of me.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Still the same response with nothing different being said.

Yes, you again made the same response and said nothing different.

When you are ready to get off you high horse ... I will gladly help by pushing a step stool over to your rocking horse ... some of them are quite high.

Vince that was very informative. Can you start a new thread with expert witness as the topic. That way it can be found at a later date if need be and others can weigh in without wading through all the above post........Thanks