Thread: Too much information

When is information too much? I am a relatively new inspector, less than 80 inspections, and want to feel comfortable doing my job. So here is what I would like to know regarding reports. 1) House is located on a main highway, do I mention in report that there is no street parking? 2) While doing an inspection I am aware of repeated large commercial airplanes over head, does this warrant mention in report? Thanks to all who offer an opinion.

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Originally Posted by William Speer

When is information too much? I am a relatively new inspector, less than 80 inspections, and want to feel comfortable doing my job. So here is what I would like to know regarding reports. 1) House is located on a main highway, do I mention in report that there is no street parking? 2) While doing an inspection I am aware of repeated large commercial airplanes over head, does this warrant mention in report? Thanks to all who offer an opinion.

Since you have a state SOP you need to follow it. Report on what you see, what needs to be done and what might happen if it not done. Keep it simple!

Report on the home and not the air traffic in the area. If the home is near an airport, I think that it would be common knowledge that you will have some airplanes overhead from time to time.

If the home has a driveway and a garage then report on it. It is not up to you to tell your client that they can not park on the street.

I can not stress in keeping it simple. If you are reporting on a leaking faucet, it should take no more than about 15-20 words to tell your client about it.

Again, if your state has an SOP then you need to follow it.

I do mention things like that in my report, usually in the Ex Sum. I know other inspectors who don't but still do good reports. Providing the info or not doesn't really go towards whether you are good or not IMHO. I tend to view it as a customer service extra type feature. It doesn't take that long to add in and some of the information can be extremely valuable to the client. Of course some of it may come off as a little hokey. Agents tend to hate that type of info because they think you are talking above your pay grade.
If the client is there, they'll notice the airplanes as well. I've had a couple inspections where planes flew over the house during the inspection and it killed the deal.
Parking is a big issue. I've put that in reports and mentioned it during inspections. It's something buyers can easily miss because they are focusing on the house itself. It's those little details that can make the difference in a buyers mind whether they should buy this house or the other one they like.
Do you want to be a $199 checkbox douchebag or a real inspector who does good reports and gets paid better? I'm guessing the latter since you are posting on IN.

Originally Posted by Markus Keller

I do mention things like that in my report, usually in the Ex Sum.
I know other inspectors who don't but still do good reports.

That would be me. I do a real good report on the house, the driveway and a quick cruise thru the yard. The info about street parking and proximity to the airport is in the MLS feature sheet that they get from the realtor. Why repeat it?
If the property is a FSBO, no realtor, and the client does not attend for a walkthrough of the property, then I would consider mentioning those items over the phone, but they don't need to be reported.

What Scott said, a good report can be short and to the point. Get used to the fact that most of your boiler plate and narrative will never be read by anybody.

Thank you for the replies. I'd like to think I do a good job, just get carried away sometimes. Keeping it simple is great advice. If the client is not there I proble will mention more.

When clients look at a home the railroad tracks directly behind the property are not visible thru an 8 foot fence. The way they come into the property they may not know that there is a railroad crossing on the other street they could have come in on .... is right next to the property.


I caught hell for it once myself and understood completely the buyers concern.

I had another client about jump out of her skin when a train whistle went off. She said "What the hell was that?" I knew the neighborhood and new that a little ways down the main road the train took a 45 degree turn to the right. Coming at you the train literally is facing the home and the trees on both sides of the track act as a loud speaker pointed directly at the home until it takes that bend. The problem was that before it took the bend heading at you there was a crossing the the darn horn felt blowing felt as if it was going to blow the home off the slab. When that train whistle/horn blew it was actuall about a half mile awy but sounded like it was parked in the back yard facing you. This woman did not buy the home.

Yes you should mention these things if the clients are there and if they are not there you should do the proper thing and make at the least a small comment about it.

Limited parking ... absolutely.

Thanks Ted. Never thought of a train in the area. Thanks for the reply. Make it a great day.

Originally Posted by William Speer

Thanks Ted. Never thought of a train in the area. Thanks for the reply. Make it a great day.

Fort Worth or should I say DFW is a train hub. When I first moved to Fort Worth it was in a home in line with a train horn. It never bothered me much listening to it the first few times I was at the home. The first night the damn thing went off at 11:10 pm and every single night there after. I moved at the end of the first year. Wonderful and enlightening experience.

Stick to your job and responsibilities, let the buyer identify and choose the demographics, if you screw up the sale based upon your views and unrelated to your job strain relations will hamper repeat work.

Originally Posted by Tom Thompson

Stick to your job and responsibilities, let the buyer identify and choose the demographics, if you screw up the sale based upon your views and unrelated to your job strain relations will hamper repeat work.

Tom

I have to tell you as I do everyone.

Just because there are SOPs all it means is those are the items you must inspect and report on.

Your job is to inform your clients of concerns in the home. You are not going to "screw up a sale" because the folks visited the home when no jet flew over head. Heard no train blow its horn. Saw no gun fight between rival gangs that live down the road that you found out about by hearing gun shots and a neighbor telling you it happens all the time. All of these things that your client new nothing about. You know about them (if in fact you do) I would be concerned for my clients. You do not have to scare the heck out of them or raise an alarm and ring bells. If you are more concerned about not telling folks of concerns with their home they are thinking of buying, and it does have to do with there home, then you are in the wrong business.

A gentle "Some train huh" or " That jet sure surprised me. It has been a while since I was in a neighborhood with planes flying over head."

I would be more concerned, if I were you, about not disclosing something you new about and did not tell your client.

As far as sticking to your job ...... what kind of job do you have?

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Tom

I have to tell you as I do everyone.

Just because there are SOPs all it means is those are the items you must inspect and report on.

Your job is to inform your clients of concerns in the home. You are not going to "screw up a sale" because the folks visited the home when no jet flew over head. Heard no train blow its horn. Saw no gun fight between rival gangs that live down the road that you found out about by hearing gun shots and a neighbor telling you it happens all the time. All of these things that your client new nothing about. You know about them (if in fact you do) I would be concerned for my clients. You do not have to scare the heck out of them or raise an alarm and ring bells. If you are more concerned about not telling folks of concerns with their home they are thinking of buying, and it does have to do with there home, then you are in the wrong business.

A gentle "Some train huh" or " That jet sure surprised me. It has been a while since I was in a neighborhood with planes flying over head."

I would be more concerned, if I were you, about not disclosing something you new about and did not tell your client.

As far as sticking to your job ...... what kind of job do you have?

How do you know what the client knows? You were hired for a home inspection, not the neighborhood. Maybe the client wants the gun fights, trains and plains. Not an inspectors concern, the Realtors won't like you if the sale falls through.

Think of yourself as being inside a courtroom...

I gotta say I have never and in all likelihood never will report on limited parking, airplanes flying overhead, or trains. That is the buyer's homework to do. I see houses all the time that have limited parking on the street and no off street parking. People should understand in general what the neighborhood is like before choosing to buy. A commuter rail line running on the other side of the fence off the backyard is not my cup of tea but it's not a defect. Just like limited parking and airplanes are not defects.

If you choose to report on such things, that is your choice. But I have far too many other things to inspect and discover to report on things that are the buyers responsibility to look into as part of their house hunting duties.

Originally Posted by Tom Thompson

How do you know what the client knows? You were hired for a home inspection, not the neighborhood. Maybe the client wants the gun fights, trains and plains. Not an inspectors concern, the Realtors won't like you if the sale falls through.

The realtors are my absolute last concern. When I inspect I am not inspecting for them. My newest conquest of a realtor is do to my disclosure. The last three inspectors this branch office went thru "were more concerned with impressing us with their smooth talk to us and making sure the deal went thru than disclosing everything to the buyers and each almost got us sued. We are done with all that."

Your absolute last concern should be any Realtor and I cannot believe that you even said that out loud

Realtors should be banned from inspector referrals and it took you, an inspector to make my case for it

I agree with Ted on this. If you're concerned about what the realtor thinks, you're not working in the best interests of your client.......the person who is paying you.

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

I agree with Ted on this. If you're concerned about what the realtor thinks, you're not working in the best interests of your client.......the person who is paying you.

Agreed...

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

I gotta say I have never and in all likelihood never will report on limited parking, airplanes flying overhead, or trains. That is the buyer's homework to do.

Agreed. I'll stick with home inspecting and let someone else take care of the neighborhood inspecting. I'm not trained to figure out someone's environmental preferences. Seems like that's the agent's job anyway.

I find my clients are usually more savvy about the neighborhood than I am. I live out in the sticks on a dead end road. The one and only train has been parked for fear of derailment - rotten ties and no cash. Gangs? What's a gang?
Parking spots is a no-brainer. My truck is there, the realtor parks beside it in the driveway, the clients park anywhere they can find a spot, there you go, eye-opener.

If there is ever a dispute over the location, they got no advice from me, I inspected the house but I don't do real estate.

If there's a rotten tree in the neighbor's yard, danger, I will point it out. One time my clients walked, three dead trees needed to be taken down between the houses, the realtor I'm sure thought I was exceeding my duties, but it can cost megabucks to take those down in a crowded burb. They found another house pretty quick, and had a new realtor for the second one.

When the expertise and certificate for neighborhood inspector is obtained then I would accept the opinions. If I was an electrician I not going to advise on structural issues. I'll stick to my job and maintain my opinions to myself.

At some point, we all come up against this and have to determine our own comfort level as to what to mention. It's easier if the client is there and you can say, "You know, I can't really put this in the report but...". I would bet even Scott would let his client know if the neighborhood was an EPA cleanup site or if there was a uranium dump next door.
The SOP is a minimum standard, as the late Jerry Peck would say (I heard he is always late anyway).

Purchase and Sale Agreements here in Washington State have a "Neighborhood Review" clause which, if the box is checked, gives the buyer 3 or so days to checkout the neighborhood. You can tell a lot about a neighborhood just by looking at lawns and automobiles when you first arrive. If there are bars on windows of most houses, chances are there is no HOA !!!

I report only on the home being inspected. Parking, neighborhood, noisy and nosey neighbors are really none of my business and cause speculation that can be taken the wrong way. I'm not the buyer’s agent, just the home inspector. I recently had the father of my client ask what the police protection was like in the neighborhood. I jokingly explained the best way to find that out would be to visit the local lock up after the inspection...

I too am a relatively new inspector, having spent the last year or so as an apprentice to a very experienced inspector and teacher. For what it is worth, I found that I tended to miss important things if my focus got too far away from the property and the Standards. Any comment I made started with " This is outside the scope of the inspection, but.." These things didn't get written in the reports.

Read this post and you'll see why sticking to your job is important, imagine if you gave neighborhood commits, but missed a few possibly making you liable for them. http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...ot-seller.html

Keep it simple, prioritizing the big things first. My criterial is disclosing anything that can have an impact on the value, safety and functional integrity of the home and it's systems. Your other opinions or observations not inspection related can be mentioned as a courtesy. ie: did you notice that the lot behind you has a public notice that it's being re-zoned as a pig farm.
I once inspected a house right on this dangerous busy highway and certainly no street parking. I mentioned this to the buyer and he said " That's why I'm buying this house. I'm single, travel allot and want a house with high visibility and difficult access for security purposes" I though... ok my work is done here.
I had another house that had a busy train tract running around 2/3's of the property line. I mentioned that to the buyer (outside of the report). She waited for the scheduled train to come through and is was so noisy and shook the house. She did not buy the house and I ended up with repeat business..

I always report those items. For me its very simple. If you know something about the house that the is beyond the "scope" and you don't inform the buyer, you work for the agent. If you give the client the benefit of experience, knowledge, wisdom, and you assume that the agent is only going to tell them positive things about the property, which we all know is usually the case, than you work for your client / the buyer.
If my daughters were purchasing a house and I couldn't do the inspection, I can assure you that anyone who mentioned / implied that they wouldn't mention these items , would not be on my list of choices for home inspectors.

Originally Posted by Herb Scott

I always report those items. For me its very simple. If you know something about the house that the is beyond the "scope" and you don't inform the buyer, you work for the agent. If you give the client the benefit of experience, knowledge, wisdom, and you assume that the agent is only going to tell them positive things about the property, which we all know is usually the case, than you work for your client / the buyer.
If my daughters were purchasing a house and I couldn't do the inspection, I can assure you that anyone who mentioned / implied that they wouldn't mention these items , would not be on my list of choices for home inspectors.

Thanks for putting it that way Herb

As in my post above. If there is gang shootings in this neighborhood all the time because the next neighborhood close by spills its troubles into this neighborhood and you were outside hearing a gun battle and the neighbor says that this is an every other day occurrence ????? I would want my daughter, son, mother, father or for that matter *my client* to hear something about it like softly bringing it to the attention at the least..

My opinion of folks that "Only stick to the SOPs and leave the rest alone" "None of my business" ..... is absolutely absurd. One is there inspecting to look out for their clients best interest *or* their little girls safety in and around the home (tripping hazards, faulty stairs, bad electric, dangling wires, windows that do not lock and wait, I know, Gun fights on the street every other day.

Why don't you just print out the crime report and list of sex offenders too...give me a break.
I think we all should go beyond the SOP, after all they are a minimum guideline. I think we should report safety or dangerous conditions and I think we should be working for the buyer exclusively as their professional and their friend. But I can't see myself writing in the report. "Dead body pulled out of dumpster last week. Seek further evaluation" . I'd tell them, but reporting it in writing is way beyond the purpose and scope of home inspections.

Human nature compels others to seek compensation by any means possible when they feel to of been taken advantage of or not given, accurate and complete information. If you choose to give your opinions remember opinions are like a- holes, every body's got one. Verbal can be just as bad as written, in a court of law your viewed as the professional who is to know better, when the buyer is viewed as the victim. Be careful, do as you wish, but be willing to accept the consequences for your input. Some of these grey areas may not be covered by your E&O carrier.

I thought I was being helpful a few years ago when I gave my opinion on an area and it backfired on me. I grew up just outside of Reading PA. Reading over the past 10-15 years developed a bad drug and crime problem with lots of gun fire. An out of state buyer from NY wanted me to inspect two houses in a very bad section of the city which she wanted as investment properties. I mentioned I knew the area and she asked if I thought the properties would be good investments. Speaking frankly, I said that if drugs and gun fire raise property values, then she'd be in great shape. Despite this, she still booked the inspections with me but I asked her to let me know if she changes her mind and decides she doesn't want to move forward with them. Both houses would be inspected the same day and she would meet me partway into the 1st inspection. On the day we scheduled, I got started on the 1st house and got all the way through without her showing up yet. After finishing, I drove to the 2nd house but wanted to make sure everything was still on before starting it. I got her on the phone and she said "Oh, I decided not to buy those houses after what you said". It seems she was the only person who knew this as the realty company had given me the keys to get in both houses.

In this case, being helpful got me a 60 mile round trip, an inspection which I was not paid for, and a day blocked off where I could have scheduled other work. I was a bit concerned that the sellers may come after me if the buyer told them what I said. I never heard anything from it and have kept my mouth shut ever since about giving my opinion on things like the area or surroundings. Yeah, I may have saved that buyer from making a bad buying decision. But I got screwed on the inspections and never heard from her again for any other work.

Buyers need to do their own homework. If somebody says they wouldn't hire me to inspect their kid's houses because I don't comment on these things, I'd say your kids need to take some responsibility for the decisions they make. And that includes putting some time in finding out if the area is right for them. I've inspected houses where the commuter rail line ran by right on the other side of the backyard fence. It isn't what I would want but some buyers want the house because it is close to the train.

Each inspector must make a business decision about where the line is drawn on matters unrelated to the home. I don't comment on airplanes, trains, street parking, school proximity or quality, average income in the city, local liquor ordinances, the state income tax, etc.

Darrel Hood
DILIGENT PROPERTY SERVICES

Originally Posted by Herb Scott

I always report those items. For me its very simple. If you know something about the house that the is beyond the "scope" and you don't inform the buyer, you work for the agent. If you give the client the benefit of experience, knowledge, wisdom, and you assume that the agent is only going to tell them positive things about the property, which we all know is usually the case, than you work for your client / the buyer.
If my daughters were purchasing a house and I couldn't do the inspection, I can assure you that anyone who mentioned / implied that they wouldn't mention these items , would not be on my list of choices for home inspectors.

When a RE agent or anyone else involved in a RE transaction starts talking good and bad neighborhoods, crime problems, and the like they are on a slippery slope. I'm a home inspector and I will stick to the home and not the environment the home is located in. All the data the buyer needs is in the public record and how they use it is up to them.

Originally Posted by Phil Gould

Any comment I made started with " This is outside the scope of the inspection, but.." These things didn't get written in the reports.

Originally Posted by Tom Thompson

Verbal can be just as bad as written, in a court of law your viewed as the professional who is to know better, when the buyer is viewed as the victim. Be careful, do as you wish, but be willing to accept the consequences for your input. Some of these grey areas may not be covered by your E&O carrier.

I agree with Tom. I do not know the details but a TX inspector got in trouble a while back with the real estate commision because his verbal comments did not match what was in his written report. It is a slippery slope giving opinions verbally and not including the same in your report, at least where I inspect.

I do not include summaries because like others posting here, I want the entire report to be read (in theory anyway ), and I do not want any confusion as to the details of the issues.

When the customer is on site I do go over my findings verbally and stick to what is going into the report. The last thing I tell the client before I leave the inspection is that the report is the offical record of the inspection and that it must be read in its entirety, regardless of the fact that we have discussed the issues.

I also state that the report should be read in its entirety in the email that I send the report with, as well as on the addtional info section at the first of my report.

This is how I do it. I am a home inspector, not a neighborhood consultant. The agent is a neighborhood consultant among other duties. The agent is getting paid a lot more money than I am and their job is to locate a home in an area that their client will be comfortable with (and this means considering airports, trains, parking, etc. as well). If they can't do that then the buyer should hire a better agent.

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

I thought I was being helpful a few years ago when I gave my opinion on an area and it backfired on me. I grew up just outside of Reading PA. Reading over the past 10-15 years developed a bad drug and crime problem with lots of gun fire. An out of state buyer from NY wanted me to inspect two houses in a very bad section of the city which she wanted as investment properties. I mentioned I knew the area and she asked if I thought the properties would be good investments. Speaking frankly, I said that if drugs and gun fire raise property values, then she'd be in great shape. Despite this, she still booked the inspections with me but I asked her to let me know if she changes her mind and decides she doesn't want to move forward with them. Both houses would be inspected the same day and she would meet me partway into the 1st inspection. On the day we scheduled, I got started on the 1st house and got all the way through without her showing up yet. After finishing, I drove to the 2nd house but wanted to make sure everything was still on before starting it. I got her on the phone and she said "Oh, I decided not to buy those houses after what you said". It seems she was the only person who knew this as the realty company had given me the keys to get in both houses.

In this case, being helpful got me a 60 mile round trip, an inspection which I was not paid for, and a day blocked off where I could have scheduled other work. I was a bit concerned that the sellers may come after me if the buyer told them what I said. I never heard anything from it and have kept my mouth shut ever since about giving my opinion on things like the area or surroundings. Yeah, I may have saved that buyer from making a bad buying decision. But I got screwed on the inspections and never heard from her again for any other work.

Buyers need to do their own homework. If somebody says they wouldn't hire me to inspect their kid's houses because I don't comment on these things, I'd say your kids need to take some responsibility for the decisions they make. And that includes putting some time in finding out if the area is right for them. I've inspected houses where the commuter rail line ran by right on the other side of the backyard fence. It isn't what I would want but some buyers want the house because it is close to the train.

First off, that is not how I would tell anyone anything.

Secondly. If there is gang shootings in this neighborhood all the time because the next neighborhood close by spills its troubles into this neighborhood and you were outside hearing a gun battle and the neighbor says that this is an every other day occurrence ????? I would want my daughter, son, mother, father or for that matter *my client* to hear something about it like softly bringing it to the attention at the least.. (again, gross exaggeration). My point is gentle notions is all it takes.

This is what I said on how things would go and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

"A gentle "Some train huh" or " That jet sure surprised me".

You folks are getting way way way out of control of what not to say or bring up or the courts will have your butt etc etc etc or the best one "you may not make the Realtor real happy" or what ever that phrase was.

As far as not talking to the folks about anything at the inspection with the exception of what goes into the report I talk to them about their kids, mothers fathers the vacation they just came back from or the 29 year old pharmacist that I thought was an 18 year old girl when I talked to her on the phone and it became quite the topic of conversation only to find out that she has gotten that all her life and even on her honeymoon a year ago she was getting carded the entire trip.

I guess all that conversation should all go into a report.

It is all in the presentation. No scary talk, no lawyers, not outraged Realtors, no loss of revenue. It's just all in the presentation.

Buyer for the most part are blind. Of course it is not our job to report on most of the above items. But sometime as an ethical being you need to slap them on the head with those observations.

Mitchell Captain
Allspec Professional Property Inspections
mlc@allspec.us

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

As far as not talking to the folks about anything at the inspection with the exception of what goes into the report

I doubt you were singling me out with that comment but that's not what I meant by my above post. I, too chat up my customers in friendly ways, that's just good business. What I was referring to was when I am specifically verbally going over the findings of my inspection. I stick to the issues and do not discuss airports, trains, gangs, parking etc. As I said, the client is paying that agent to do more than draw up a contract and that includes the agent discussing the neighborhood environment when house hunting with the buyer.

"The 29 year old pharmacist that I thought was an 18 year old girl"
Once again, Ted, Too much information!

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

First off, that is not how I would tell anyone anything.

Secondly. If there is gang shootings in this neighborhood all the time because the next neighborhood close by spills its troubles into this neighborhood and you were outside hearing a gun battle and the neighbor says that this is an every other day occurrence ????? I would want my daughter, son, mother, father or for that matter *my client* to hear something about it like softly bringing it to the attention at the least.. (again, gross exaggeration). My point is gentle notions is all it takes.

This is what I said on how things would go and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

"A gentle "Some train huh" or " That jet sure surprised me".

A gentle notion about gunfire, drugs, and crime? How do I make a gentle notion about that or softly bring it to their attention?

"Oooooh, that gunfire really startled me".
"Those drugs baggies really make the sidewalk look dirty".
"It's a shame that old lady got hit in the head with a pipe and had her purse snatched last week".

Would I want my son to know about things like this if he were buying a house? Yes I would. But I would expect him to do his homework on the area beforehand.

I guess depending on where you live and the age of the house, I think it's important to let the client know or at least for the HI to figure out. This is because in some jurisdictions, the home has to be built to a specific code based on its proximity to an airport. This is ususally for newer construction.

Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski

I gotta say I have never and in all likelihood never will report on limited parking, airplanes flying overhead, or trains. That is the buyer's homework to do. I see houses all the time that have limited parking on the street and no off street parking. People should understand in general what the neighborhood is like before choosing to buy. A commuter rail line running on the other side of the fence off the backyard is not my cup of tea but it's not a defect. Just like limited parking and airplanes are not defects.

If you choose to report on such things, that is your choice. But I have far too many other things to inspect and discover to report on things that are the buyers responsibility to look into as part of their house hunting duties.

Nick summed it up for me. They decide if they want to live next to barking dogs, messy neighbors, busy streets, train tracks & crappy schools. Don't step on the Realtor's toes. Just report on those items pertaining to the house and in you SoP's.