Thread: Letter to stop passing out my inspection report

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

I understand that part too.



Ahh ... that is a very interesting question ...

My reports were based on my template, I wrote my own program - however, that does not apply to most home inspectors ... sort of 'does not apply' (that's the very interesting part).

Even though a home inspector uses an off-the-shelf program, each home inspector 'tailors' the report and verbiage to their needs in one way or another, sometimes in many ways, and the same reporting system used by two different home inspectors may end up with quite different looking reports and the information contained therein.

Thus I would say that *the report* is copyrighted (can be copyrighted). The agent may, indeed, extract the "facts" from the report and use those "facts".

I would think it doesn't matter how different one HI's reports are from another HI's, the reports by a single HI would have to be different from each other, with creative effort put into each.

In cases where the templates are themselves copyrighted by another author, those can't be part of the work potentially covered by copyright.

(b) The copyright in a compilation or derivative work extends only to the
material contributed by the author of such work, as distinguished from the preexisting material employed in the work, and does not imply any exclusive right in the preexisting material.

(Title 17, 103:b)

I don't know, I'm no attorney. Have any of you had any legal advice on the subject? If reports are subject to copyright, California would have had to get by that by invoking Fair Use. Seems to me.

If I were an HI concerned about copyright, I'd see a lawyer, not assume that my reports were subject to it.

Originally Posted by Kristi Silber

I would think it doesn't matter how different one HI's reports are from another HI's, the reports by a single HI would have to be different from each other, with creative effort put into each.

And each report IS a creative effort and all the reports ARE different as no two houses are identical.

In cases where the templates are themselves copyrighted by another author, those can't be part of the work potentially covered by copyright.

You may be correct that 'the template' is copyrighted by another, but the 'information within the template' is creative effort by the HI, especially with an HI who has modified the base template information and customized it, as many, perhaps most, do.

If I were an HI concerned about copyright, I'd see a lawyer, not assume that my reports were subject to it.

Agreed, but if the HI was truly concerned about the copyright, they might want to register their copyright first, and as each new report is a new copyright, that may become time consuming and expensive (if you considered all of the report of one HI to be 'essentially the same and to be one copyright', then that HI would only need to copyright one report and the rest would fall within that copyright.

You seem to have a different idea of creative effort from me. I thought HIs used templates to report facts and observation. Relying on different houses to supply the originality isn't the same as making an effort at creativity.

...Agreed, but if the HI was truly concerned about the copyright, they might want to register their copyright first, and as each new report is a new copyright, that may become time consuming and expensive (if you considered all of the report of one HI to be 'essentially the same and to be one copyright', then that HI would only need to copyright one report and the rest would fall within that copyright.

I suggested going to an attorney to see first whether the reports could carry copyright, so registering first doesn't make sense (although it may be cheaper to simply try registering a report, and see if it's rejected). Considering all reports by a particular HI to be "essentially the same" is itself a reason why such reports would not subject to copyright.

I have reviewed hundreds of inspection reports and they ranged from 3 page check lists to narratively written small novels 60 + pages. Then there are the reports with a summary so that the busy agents don't have to read through a report to find discovered material defects by the inspector. When the real estate industry is pandered to by home inspectors you will get ambiguously written reports wherein the inspector tries to make light of significant defects in order to avoid the title of "Deal Buster." When you see an inspector write such garbage as "the home was well maintained, bla, bla, bla" it's apparent that the home inspection industry can only look in the mirror when searching for lack of credibility. Then add to the above the cretins who advertise inspections for $199.50.
Rant done…………………………….

Originally Posted by Kristi Silber

I suggested going to an attorney to see first whether the reports could carry copyright, so registering first doesn't make sense (although it may be cheaper to simply try registering a report, and see if it's rejected). Considering all reports by a particular HI to be "essentially the same" is itself a reason why such reports would not subject to copyright.

Before I started my home inspection company in October 2001, I spent the previous few months talking with insurance agents (E&O, life, AD&D), about ten real estate attorneys that I knew from my previous years in property renovation, and a couple of copyright attorneys. I didn't find anyone who told me that my reports as I was planning on doing them (my own Word template) could be copyrighted. Add the Leko decision into the equation, and my own confidence in my inspection and report writing abilities (note that several of the respondents in this thread said I'd be out of business in a couple of year but 2003 has come and gone!), and I'm happy if people pass my reports around.

I really could care less if a Realtor wants to pass one of my reports around or give it to a different client. It's free advertising and it shows that the Realtor has confidence in that you're a good inspector. There's no liability if someone else uses the report, their names not on it and they did not pay for it.

Calling the Realtor and getting mad about all of it will just cost you business in the long run.

Not as many states have disclosure as you might think.
States that have disclosure requirements: 29

Homes For Sale By Owner - Search, Buy, Sell - Owners.com Real Estate

Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells

Not as many states have disclosure as you might think.
States that have disclosure requirements: 29

Homes For Sale By Owner - Search, Buy, Sell - Owners.com Real Estate

Well, that is more than half!

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Well, that is more than half!

Unless you are Pres. Obama.

Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells

Unless you are Pres. Obama.

... and the ignorance of some rears its ugly head and shows itself in unexpected ways ...

Keeping politics out of this board is a good thing ... letting ignorance of political realities in this board is not a good thing.

Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy

I have reviewed hundreds of inspection reports and they ranged from 3 page check lists to narratively written small novels 60 + pages. Then there are the reports with a summary so that the busy agents don't have to read through a report to find discovered material defects by the inspector. When the real estate industry is pandered to by home inspectors you will get ambiguously written reports wherein the inspector tries to make light of significant defects in order to avoid the title of "Deal Buster." When you see an inspector write such garbage as "the home was well maintained, bla, bla, bla" it's apparent that the home inspection industry can only look in the mirror when searching for lack of credibility. Then add to the above the cretins who advertise inspections for $199.50.
Rant done…………………………….

Please continue

I was really enjoying hearing honesty. My newest request from a Realtor was

"The inspector I usually deal with breaks the report down and puts the big ticket items in the summary. You know, the costly items. Not all the little items the seller will never fix anyway. Could you break that down for me so the client uinderstands such things ?" Ahhhh, let me think about that a second.......NO.

Oh, I'm sorry. There is no problem with the Realtors controling the purse strings.

Originally Posted by Ted Menelly

Please continue

I was really enjoying hearing honesty. My newest request from a Realtor was

"The inspector I usually deal with breaks the report down and puts the big ticket items in the summary. You know, the costly items. Not all the little items the seller will never fix anyway. Could you break that down for me so the client uinderstands such things ?" Ahhhh, let me think about that a second.......NO.

Oh, I'm sorry. There is no problem with the Realtors controling the purse strings.

Ted,

You need to learn how to play the game.

Real estate agents wanted a summary down in South Florida too, so I simply put *ALL* (yes, every) item needing repair or correction in the "summary". Kind of like giving the the entire report without any descriptions of what you looked or inspected, just a location, the item and everything I found wrong with that item.

The agents had their summary, and I had everything still included.

That was why my report automatically entered the information two ways: geographically as to where I was, what I looked at, and what I found wrong, and systematically as to everything electrical under electrical as to location, the item, and everything wrong with that item. The systematical section was the summary. Also helped the trades because everything was listed together by trade in that systematical section.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Real estate agents wanted a summary down in South Florida too, so I simply put *ALL* (yes, every) item needing repair or correction in the "summary".

Gotta love it! Well done.