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  1. #1
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    Default Pictures defective

    I have seen quite a few other inspectors reports over the last few years and they all, without exception are full of pictures indicating areas with no defects, the perfectly good roof, boiler, panel, grounds, etc.
    Not one picture of a defect.
    Defects are noted in verbage but no pics.
    Seems completely ridiculous to me.
    I don't even have room in my reports for pics like that.
    Just venting but have you guys seen this also?

    Inspection Referral

  2. #2
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    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    I can't say I have seen a report with no defect photos. Its been a while since I have looked at another inspectors work.
    I include some "information" photos in my reports, such as locations of shut offs, etc. I also include photos of manf. tags on stuff too. I kept getting requests from clients regarding model and serial numbers, so I decided just to include them when I could.
    Personally I don't really care how other inspectors write their reports. I care that my clients like my report.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    The only time I put a non-defect picture in the report is when the client wasn't present for the inspection, I might include a pic of the roof to prove I was up there. Or if a room or area is completely blocked by property, I might include that. But these are rarities. All the pics in my reports are of defects.

    I see no reason to put non-defect pics in a report.

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    I see no reason to put non-defect pics in a report.
    Apparently, you do as you listed a couple of very good examples....

    I do the same, if it's an odd-ball setup or something obstructing a view or access.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    Reviewed reports for an HI association for a couple of years. Saw lots of goofy stuff.

    There are a number of inspectors who include "general photos" of each room. Asked a few about that. They claimed it was because the client did not/could not attend and they felt it helped the client remember what the home looked like. Clutter in my opinion.

    Some include pics of shutoff valves, interior pics of electrical panel, HVAC systems, water heaters, kitchen appliances, etc. Some said including the shut off's pics helped the client.

    Pics of the major systems or appliances was to prove they inspected them. I have pics of the insides of the electrial panel, HVAC, etc but they are for my records and not included in the report. Needless and clutter a report. Got the pics if I have to go to court, or client claims condition was broken at inspection and not reported but is broken when tradesman claims your home inspector should have seen this.

    Many of the defect pics included in the reportrs I reveiwed were often too far away from the defect and virtually useless.

    Licenseing board review board used to look at the wide angle photos for overlooked defects. His advice was to take the photo so close that only the defect is visible. Then there is no possible way that an undocumented defect is hiding in plain sight in the report photos.

    "The Code is not a peak to reach but a foundation to build from."

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    Maybe the housing stock is better here. If I only use pics of defects, I might only have 5 pics in a report.

    I take tons of pics and put about half of them in. The defect pics get a paragraph of text, comments and arrows. The summary pages are a list of the defects. They are buried if you are just flipping thru the report, but they stick out becuase of the text and they are listed at the back.

    Pictures of the roof give the client a view of the whole thing, not just where the ladder happened to be. 8 or 10 pics of the roof, 3 or 4 of the chimney, including a shot down the flue. It's not a defect, it is good information. The flue needs cleaning, but it looks OK, There's a bit of moss under a tree, but otherwise none. There's a valley full of needles and debris. The pics makes my job easy.
    Attic, 8 pics maybe, framing, sheathing, insulation, vents, skylight well, etc.
    Kitchen, a pic of every appliances, cabinets, sink. 5 or 6 pics of a typical bathroom. Defects are closeups with an arrow or two.

    Use software that allows you to drag and drop straight from the camera SD card to the report. 20 mins for pics of a cookie cutter house.

    Do what you think is best and set a good example. The technology is here now to do a Utube video of the inspection with a verbal commentary, why not?

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino View Post
    Apparently, you do as you listed a couple of very good examples....

    I do the same, if it's an odd-ball setup or something obstructing a view or access.
    I guess I should say "otherwise, I see no reason to put non-defect pics in reports".

    "It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey

  8. #8
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    Mar 2007
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    Windsor Ontario
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    I've seen reports with more photos than written reporting. I guess some believe it fits the bill. I believe it fails in providing a basic relationship to meeting the SOP.

    Personally, I believe in providing photos to validate evidence of significant issues.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    Maybe the housing stock is better here. If I only use pics of defects, I might only have 5 pics in a report.

    I take tons of pics and put about half of them in. The defect pics get a paragraph of text, comments and arrows. The summary pages are a list of the defects. They are buried if you are just flipping thru the report, but they stick out becuase of the text and they are listed at the back.

    Pictures of the roof give the client a view of the whole thing, not just where the ladder happened to be. 8 or 10 pics of the roof, 3 or 4 of the chimney, including a shot down the flue. It's not a defect, it is good information. The flue needs cleaning, but it looks OK, There's a bit of moss under a tree, but otherwise none. There's a valley full of needles and debris. The pics makes my job easy.
    Attic, 8 pics maybe, framing, sheathing, insulation, vents, skylight well, etc.
    Kitchen, a pic of every appliances, cabinets, sink. 5 or 6 pics of a typical bathroom. Defects are closeups with an arrow or two.

    Use software that allows you to drag and drop straight from the camera SD card to the report. 20 mins for pics of a cookie cutter house.

    Do what you think is best and set a good example. The technology is here now to do a Utube video of the inspection with a verbal commentary, why not?
    You might be the luckiest man alive.. around here if I get out of ANY home with less than 50 photos i'm happy.. hasn't happened in years.


  10. #10
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    Feb 2010
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    Wenatchee Wa
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    I guess I have more issues with just poor reports versus one where there is a few non defect photos.

    But I think it is a good point that the picture should have a purpose, either to show a defect or to provide information to the client. I include shut off photos with an arrow pointing to the exact shut off I am referring to.

    I will use a few more general photos, usually attics and crawls, if my clients were not present at the inspection.

    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

  11. #11
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    Nov 2009
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    Dallas, TX
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    89

    Default Re: Pictures defective

    A psycho client got angry with me because I didn't include a photo of the lawn irrigation control box. (Nothing was wrong with it). So she filed a complaint against me with TREC. She also claimed that I didn't climb the roof or entered the attic. I was exonerated because I provided proof of everything with my saved pics. TREC wrote her a letter and explained that photos are not required in our reports.


  12. #12
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    May 2010
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    St. George, UT
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    My reports will have a lot of pictures without defects. Those go at the heading of each section of the report. And they are useful, especially for clients that are not local, some like to know, or see where the heating unit or WH is located. (hmmm...looks like there is enough room at the side of the house for my boat) I have found clients like a lot of pictures, never a complaint!

    I also use IR pictures to show (document) Temp differentials for Heating and A/C systems.
    A picture showing correct water pressure water heater and heating/AC placards and other things like that let them know you were not missing much.

    In the body of the report is where you will find the pictures showing defects along with verbiage explaining the defect and recommendations.

    95% or more of my reports are electronically delivered ($20 discount for green report only) so the amount of pictures makes little difference. On the rare occasion that a client "does not do the computer thing" I will cut down on the pics in the report, but copy them to a disc (along with electronic copy of the report) and give it to them.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne soper View Post
    I have seen quite a few other inspectors reports over the last few years and they all, without exception are full of pictures indicating areas with no defects, the perfectly good roof, boiler, panel, grounds, etc.
    Not one picture of a defect.
    Defects are noted in verbage but no pics.
    Seems completely ridiculous to me.
    I don't even have room in my reports for pics like that.
    Just venting but have you guys seen this also?
    Wayne why would you need to vent about Inspectors that do more than you.
    Simply include superior methods such as photo reporting yourself.Insurance companies reps,Lawyers and Judges agree that photos are a superior way to prove your case not to mention most people especially now in days get bored with long winded text in Inspector speak that in many of the reports [ many ] I have viewed are simply too technical and often extremely general in order to facilitate time savings and provide a liability cushion to the Inspector that will not fool any Judge as being anything but canned .

    Clients need to see what you are talking about because they do not live there yet ,often have only visited once or twice with Agents or sellers yapping at them or may even be buying without personally showing up.

    Instead of feeling threatened get a good camera and shoot away....

    Chicagopropertyinspection.com

  14. #14
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    Bennett (Denver metro), Colorado
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    The only time I put a non-defect picture in the report is when the client wasn't present for the inspection, I might include a pic of the roof to prove I was up there. Or if a room or area is completely blocked by property, I might include that. But these are rarities. All the pics in my reports are of defects.

    I see no reason to put non-defect pics in a report.
    ditto

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    The only time I put a non-defect picture in the report is when the client wasn't present for the inspection, I might include a pic of the roof to prove I was up there. Or if a room or area is completely blocked by property, I might include that. But these are rarities. All the pics in my reports are of defects.

    I see no reason to put non-defect pics in a report.
    ditto

    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

  15. #15
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    Mar 2012
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    Lansdale, PA
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne soper View Post
    I have seen quite a few other inspectors reports over the last few years and they all, without exception are full of pictures indicating areas with no defects, the perfectly good roof, boiler, panel, grounds, etc.
    Not one picture of a defect.
    Defects are noted in verbage but no pics.
    Seems completely ridiculous to me.
    I don't even have room in my reports for pics like that.
    Just venting but have you guys seen this also?

    Wayne, I agree completely. I think some inspectors are trained in how to write a good looking report. However, whenever I see one of these reports, it lacks photos of deflects, often because they do not see the defects. They are too busy taking stock photos to bother inspecting the house.

    As a structural engineer I review a lot of reports. I see photos of boilers, water heaters, attics, etc. Then when there is a significant structural concern, maybe they include one poor photo.


  16. #16
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    Jul 2007
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    930

    Default Re: Pictures defective

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Reinmiller View Post
    Wayne, I agree completely. I think some inspectors are trained in how to write a good looking report. However, whenever I see one of these reports, it lacks photos of deflects, often because they do not see the defects. They are too busy taking stock photos to bother inspecting the house.

    As a structural engineer I review a lot of reports. I see photos of boilers, water heaters, attics, etc. Then when there is a significant structural concern, maybe they include one poor photo.
    Structural Engineers are not Home Inspectors.

    Structural Engineers comments are directed towards Contractors so they can come in and make corrections preceded by estimates for work.

    Home Inspectors must comments on hundreds of items and explain both material and issues type comments.The pictures help clients get a perspective on the home they are buying so they can then judge whether or not to stand pat,walk away or renegotiate.

    When dealing with a person under time pressure which around here is often a day or two for decisions at best after the report illustrations and photo representation is of utmost importance.

    Stating you see many poor photos in reports does not make your case for excluding them as much as it proves there are poor inspectors that use many different methods.

    You might as well state cars are a bad idea because in your time on Earth you have seen many bad drivers.

    Not including photos is just pure laziness or greed to cram in extra inspections IMO.
    Not good for the client or the industry .

    Chicagopropertyinspection.com

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    Wayne why would you need to vent about Inspectors that do more than you.
    Simply include superior methods such as photo reporting yourself.Insurance companies reps,Lawyers and Judges agree that photos are a superior way to prove your case not to mention most people especially now in days get bored with long winded text in Inspector speak that in many of the reports [ many ] I have viewed are simply too technical and often extremely general in order to facilitate time savings and provide a liability cushion to the Inspector that will not fool any Judge as being anything but canned .

    Clients need to see what you are talking about because they do not live there yet ,often have only visited once or twice with Agents or sellers yapping at them or may even be buying without personally showing up.

    Instead of feeling threatened get a good camera and shoot away....
    I think you misunderstood, I take on the average 150 photos per inspection, And they all do far less than me.
    and I agree with you


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne soper View Post
    I think you misunderstood, I take on the average 150 photos per inspection, And they all do far less than me.
    and I agree with you
    Just stirring the pot Wayne.
    I have seen reports with a dozen shots which is fine if done well and depending property or investor target.
    Unless in Texas we all have the option to compete according to report method or other standards such as education, communication, marketing or aux services.
    Many including myself use pictures as notes and prefer to use them with captions .
    HIP is right now undergoing a massive upgrade allowing glossary pop outs and PDF inserted video so things are never totally static.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne soper View Post
    I think you misunderstood, I take on the average 150 photos per inspection, And they all do far less than me.
    and I agree with you
    Just stirring the pot Wayne.
    I have seen reports with a dozen shots which is fine if done well and depending property or investor target.
    Unless in Texas we all have the option to compete according to report method or other standards such as education, communication, marketing or aux services.
    Many including myself use pictures as notes and prefer to use them with captions .
    HIP is right now undergoing a massive upgrade allowing glossary pop outs and PDF inserted video so things are never totally static.

    Chicagopropertyinspection.com

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    KISS!


  20. #20
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    Lansdale, PA
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    Structural Engineers are not Home Inspectors.

    Structural Engineers comments are directed towards Contractors so they can come in and make corrections preceded by estimates for work.

    Home Inspectors must comments on hundreds of items and explain both material and issues type comments.The pictures help clients get a perspective on the home they are buying so they can then judge whether or not to stand pat,walk away or renegotiate.

    When dealing with a person under time pressure which around here is often a day or two for decisions at best after the report illustrations and photo representation is of utmost importance.

    Stating you see many poor photos in reports does not make your case for excluding them as much as it proves there are poor inspectors that use many different methods.

    You might as well state cars are a bad idea because in your time on Earth you have seen many bad drivers.

    Not including photos is just pure laziness or greed to cram in extra inspections IMO.
    Not good for the client or the industry .
    I have also been a home inspector for 29 years. I have nothing againt including extra photos but I fail to see how a photl of a water heater helps the client. How does it helf the client to mention a defect that could be shown in photos and then not include enough photos or have poor photos showing the defect?


  21. #21
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    Lake Barrington, IL
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    I prefer to provide meat & potatoes reports. If something is ok it's marked as "Satisfactory" with no comments or photos. The purpose of my inspections is to determine if there are any concerns. By following a SoP I am already including a lot of info in my reports - more than the average client wants to read. If I had comments and photos of stuff that's correct I'd only be making the client's effort of gleaning report info more laborious.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Chicago IL
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    Default Re: Pictures defective

    Since clients aren't around for a lot of my inspections; investors, commercial clients, out of town buyers, etc; I put in some establishing shots of the property to provide back ground. I've never had a complaint about it; always thank you's for providing a visual of the property.
    Obviously on a standard HI its less important to do so. However, having a picture of the water main or say a 'sub-panel' in the report also helps jog the buyers memory. I've had buyers comment they were happy I put in the picture of the water main because they didn't remember where it was, i.e. when its buried inside and access panel somewhere.
    Most pictures are of defects though.

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  23. #23
    cory nystul's Avatar
    cory nystul Guest

    Default Re: Pictures defective

    I must admit i take pics of fully functioning nits. This has saved me more than once, when a client calls later and says that I didn't call out the (fill in the blank) and now it doesn't work, or I didn't access a certain space. MY pictures of functioning items has saved me many times.


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