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  1. #1
    RobertSmith's Avatar
    RobertSmith Guest

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Yikes! I hope you're ok.
    I've never had anything remotely like that happen - knock on wood.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
    www.ArnoldHomeInspections.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Glad to hear you are OK. I gotta' wonder - any chance the tester faulted?


  4. #4
    daniel nantell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    thanks for the heads up--or should I say heads down.--Ill carry a fire extinguisher and say a pray before inspections.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Robert,

    Glad to hear your sorta ok.

    Did you ask the homeowner for their homeowner insurance company provider name?

    Was this some kind of new wiring? I've never heard of F******wiring yet? I'll ask the guys at the big orange box while I'm in there today if they can show me this new f****** wiring and explain its hazardous condition to them.

    rick


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Glad you are ok.

    Any chance this house had aluminum wiring?

    Here is a picture from yesterday's inspection. It is a kitchen outlet with aluminum wiring.

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  7. #7
    RobertSmith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Thanks guys. I'm fine.

    No aluminum wiring.

    THE TESTER IS NOT AT FAULT - THAT'S MY ANSWER AND I'M STICKING TO IT. The tester worked fine on all other outlets until I got to that one.


    Lou, now imagine the entire wall burned and ceiling above it....

    I'm not fretting over this in terms of liabilty. Could care less , actually. I'm living that's all that matters. Just got a headache.

    Can't wait to find out what the root cause will be, though.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Robert,

    Did it feel like this?

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Robert
    Something like that happened to me ONCE, had the multimeter set to read miliamps, I think. No fire, but did have fireworks.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  10. #10
    Richard Rushing's Avatar
    Richard Rushing Guest

    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Robert,

    Glad to hear your sorta ok.

    Did you ask the homeowner for their homeowner insurance company provider name?

    Was this some kind of new wiring? I've never heard of F******wiring yet? I'll ask the guys at the big orange box while I'm in there today if they can show me this new f****** wiring and explain its hazardous condition to them.

    rick

    Yo, Robert-- what Rick H. stated above is a very good come back (regarding asking for their homeowners insurance carrier and policy#). I think the homeowner does have the responsibility/ liability of your safety, and in this case, hospital bill. That POS homeowner coming after you and speaking to you as she did, deserves to be knocked on her own arse by the same outlet.

    rr


  11. #11
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    In NC the "Offer To Purchase Contract" that was Revised 7/2007, paragraph 17 say that the Buyer and Buyer contractors are responsible for any damage done while on the property. A copy is attached.

    Not sure how it is on other states but the agents I deal with are well aware of it!

    Attached Files Attached Files

  12. #12
    Richard Rushing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    James,

    I submit to you that Robert caused no damage to the property. All he did was find a defect. This is the same as if you "FIND" that the roof is bad.

    Would you expect to have to replace the roof since *YOU* are the one that found the defective roof during the course of a normal inspection???

    Of course not....

    The homeowner, on the other hand, can certainly be held responsible (via their homeowners policy) any personal injury caused to a person invited onto your property-- and in alot of cases, even if they were not invited.

    I tell ya, *any* realtor will have one hell of a time proving that this was a case of negligence or an error on the inspectors part. They just don't have a leg to stand on.

    Rich


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    Buyer and Buyer contractors are responsible for any damage done while on the property.
    James,

    I opened your pdf and it was upside down.

    That said there is a huge difference between causing damage and being injured on someones property. Repairman working on an appliance and the light fixture falls on his head.Did he damage the light fixture or was he doing what he was contracted to do and was injured by the light fixture?

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  14. #14
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Billy...

    You need to rotate it!

    I did not say anyone was at fault. I just passed along some information.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    Billy...

    You need to rotate it!

    I did not say anyone was at fault. I just passed along some information.
    James,

    Thanks much better. The information you posted is between the Seller and the Buyer.
    Looks like the Buyer holds the Seller harmless. The buyer may do so, the injured party is
    not bound buy their agreement.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    But the buyer is on the hook for repairing any damage done by his inspector(s).

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    I spoke with a member of the NC licensing board Friday about the HI being responsible for damages causing turing an inspection.

    His response was, if you probe a piece of soft and rotten wood and cause a minor hole, the wood was already damaged, you did not cause any damage. No liability. If you pry off an entire piece of lap siding, you are responsible.

    During a ConEd class the instructor told the story he experienced while he was an investigator for the licensing board following up on customer complaints.

    HI found the windows sills were deteriorated and cracked. He took a screwdriver, jammed it in the crack and broke off the rotted sill on every window in the house. His explanation was now they would have to repair the damage. He claimed he did everyone a favor. In such a case, the HI would be liable.

    The interperation is minor holes made while probing with a finger or screwdriver tip are acceptable. Removing pieces of the homeis not acceptable.

    "The Code is not a peak to reach but a foundation to build from."

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    But the buyer is on the hook for repairing any damage done by his inspector(s).
    There is no damage done by the Inspector. The damage was done by a defective outlet.

    If he had turned on a faucet and water went every where the damage was caused by the defective device.

    A normal expectation is to operate an item as intended. Open a door if the knob comes off in your hand defective. Turn on the heat and it explodes defective.Plug an electrical device into an outlet it catches on fire defective.Any damage caused was done due to defective items owned by the seller.

    Fall off the Roof,Kill Poodle,Ladder Bust Sellers Window damage buyer is responsible for.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    There is no damage done by the Inspector. The damage was done by a defective outlet.
    Billy, just for the record, I was not commenting on this particular event, but the wording posted from the contract.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    While I agree that Robert "did not cause the fire" and thus the buyer has nothing to hold the seller harmless from ...

    ... I also submit that the final word will come from what the forensic investigator determines was wrong and the judge's take on it.

    If the action of plugging in a tester 'caused' the receptacle outlet to fail, which 'caused' the resulting fire, then the action of plugging in that same tester into any and every receptacle outlet would 'cause' the same results ... but it did not.

    Likewise, if plugging something into that receptacle outlet 'was not the cause' of the resulting fire, then the receptacle outlet had to have been previously 'defective or damaged' in some way. That's where the forensic investigator removes the receptacle and determines what was what when.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  21. #21
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    I guess my point was is that it could be a problem that I hope i never experience. I have had some agents say that in the future their company may require a contract between them (the agent) and the inspector to cover this problem. The "what insurance do you carry" issue has also come up more often recently. With the right seller who is aware what Paragraph 17 says this could be a problem for a NC inspector.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    With the right seller who is aware what Paragraph 17 says this could be a problem for a NC inspector.
    That's been in the majority of the real estate contracts used in Florida for over 15 years that I know of, and I think it has been in there even longer, and the example given about the decayed wood and probing and breaking out window sills is basically how they address it as being 'already damaged' or 'the inspector damaged it'. Unless the inspector really rips things apart, it is typically considered 'already damaged' (it was "already" "damaged" by the wood decay/termites/whatever).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    With the right seller who is aware what Paragraph 17 says this could be a problem for a NC inspector.
    James,

    Thats what General Liability takes care of. Checking bids coming up on renewal 100k
    $425.00 a year,State Farm.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  24. #24
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    I have $2 mil ...... Farm Bureau.....

    Don't want to use it though..


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    I have $2 mil ...... Farm Bureau.....

    Don't want to use it though..
    ,

    James,

    100k is all I can afford . 1Mill. E & O eats my lunch.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    ,

    James,

    100k is all I can afford . 1Mill. E & O eats my lunch.
    Billy,

    Not E&), GL.

    GL is cheap.

    I also carried $2 mil GL.

    (Heaven forbid I break a light bulb in the houses I used to do. )

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Billy,

    Not E&), GL.

    GL is cheap.

    I also carried $2 mil GL.

    (Heaven forbid I break a light bulb in the houses I used to do. )
    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    I have $2 mil ...... Farm Bureau.....

    Don't want to use it though..
    Mr.Peck.

    I currently carry 1 million E & O Insurance and 100k GL..

    How much does a light bulb cost in Florida? Or a Poodle in North Carolina?

    Last edited by Billy Stephens; 11-14-2007 at 09:30 PM.
    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Stephens View Post
    I currently carry 1 million E & O Insurance and 100k GL.
    Billy,

    Have you checked to see how much $1 mil GL costs? It is really cheap. I found that $2 mil did not cost much more than $1 mil, which did not cost much more than $500k.

    Just a thought, but you may have already looked into it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  29. #29
    Richard Rushing's Avatar
    Richard Rushing Guest

    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Most builders will now require the inspector to submit to having atleast a 1M GL policy. Some require the 2M (just not many).

    But what the heck, not very expensive.

    rr


  30. #30
    Nolan Kienitz's Avatar
    Nolan Kienitz Guest

    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Food for thought:

    $1M E&O = ~$2100/annual (State Farm)
    $2M GL (w/$4M aggregate) = $350/annual (Hartford)


    I'm not complaining at all. I'm pleased with my rates/coverage ... just like any in$urance ... hate to pay for the "future possibility of things that you never want to happen".





  31. #31
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    My GL went down this year. For 1M I pay around $200 from Shelter Insurance. The rate depends on your past history and the area you live in. I have had Shelter for around 12 years with no claims!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Land Mines for Inspectors

    Fire extinguishers should be mandatory equipment for any inspector who has significant volume. Though I've never had to use mine, I have had close calls.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

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