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  1. #1
    wes owens's Avatar
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    Question flipping on the side

    I have a question about flipping houses on the side.

    First let me say that I know some of you are against it from previous post on this subject, so I'm not looking for feed back on whether it's ethical or not.

    I would not engage in anything that I felt was unethical and risk my reputation that I have worked extremely hard to build.

    I was asked about going into business with someone (I will refer to them as the investor from here on), and flip house on the side.

    First, I would locate a property and if it looked promising, I would inspect it.

    Then the investor would purchase the property.

    Then I would do all of the repairs and renovating that I could do, and hire out the rest. The investor would cover material and any subing out I had to hire.

    The property would go on the market and if all went well, would sell at a profit. The cost of the property, material, and sub fees (not mine) would come off of the top and be paid first, then the profit would be left.

    My question is how should I handle my side.

    Should I get paid for inspecting the property and for my time doing the repairs, and then get a small percentage of the profits, or should I not get paid for anything and receive a little more of the profits?

    Or is there another way to handle it?

    I don't know what would normally be done so I thought that maybe some of you have done, seen, or heard something like this that may give me an idea of what to do.

    Thanks.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Wes,
    First and most important thing. Get it all worked out in advance IN WRITING. Also have an exit plan for when it goes south.

    I'm not sure if you belong to ASHI or any other HI organization, or if you are licensed. ASHI's code of ethics actually prohibits inspecting a house that you have, or expect to have, a financial interest.

    There also may be regulations about doing work on a home you have inspected, or ethics issues too.

    What I have done for inspector friends (that are purchasing a home), is to be the inspector of record, and they just follow me around. It's my report, he is the client, and I get paid. You should probably take off the inspector hat for homes you are going to partner and work on.

    I work with several investors, and I have seen a bunch of the partnerships break up over the years. It has always been because they didn't have a clear understanding of who was going to do what, and how the money was going to be handled.

    Hope it works out for you
    JF


  3. #3
    wes owens's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    I took ASHI's code

    "Inspectors shall not inspect properties for compensation in which they have, or expect to have, a financial interest."

    to mean that I cannot inspect a property for a client that I have a financial interest in. In my case, I am the client.

    That would also mean that I can't work on a property for another client for 12 months.

    But if I am the client, then the code would be irrelevant.
    Right?

    Thats how I interpreted it anyway.

    I may be wrong.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    I see a couple of problems with what you are proposing. If you plan on going back to the seller for corrections or consideration for some unacceptable condition with the house. Then, it would be a conflict of interest. If you are inspecting the building to determine if it is economically feasible, the it seems to me that there is no conflict.

    However, more importantly, as an inspector, you may be held to a higher standard (lawsuit wise) than a non-inspector, if something is incorrectly repaired or missed during construction. Be really careful.

    Department of Redundancy Department
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  5. #5
    wes owens's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Gunnar,

    It would only be to determine if it is economically feasible because according to the investor, foreclosures is what their interested in.

    There wouldn't be a seller to go back to.

    So, what would be the norm for my side of the business?


  6. #6
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    "Should I get paid for inspecting the property and for my time doing the repairs, and then get a small percentage of the profits, or should I not get paid for anything and receive a little more of the profits?"

    I don't think there is a problem with conflict of interest. The main questions I see was the one above. If it was me, I would certainly do the first one by getting paid for the work and inspection, and taking a smaller percentage of the profits. There may not be any profit, or it may take a lot longer to flip than you were hoping, which could leave you on the short end. If it works out great after the first one, readjust your percentages and go for it.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

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    Thumbs up Re: flipping on the side

    Wes, If your the skill, labor and contractor and he is only the money then you should be intitled to at least half, even if you don't do any work but contracting. Your like 2 sides of a coin one side worthless with out the other. Don't sell your self short.


  8. #8
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    The ethical considerations aside (if that's entirely possible), the biggest hurdle you will have to jump is the issue of quality. "Flipping" is a euphemistic term synonymous with "whitewashing", if it is used in the context of buying distressed properties, putting as little money into them as possible to make the aesthetically appealing, and selling them to unsuspecting buyers at a profit. How do you, as a competent (assumed) inspector see that you will get beyond this with any degree of grace?

    Aaron


  9. #9
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    As others mentioned, whatever you do get it in writing. I've seen several deals start out good and go south in a hurry when people don't agree on things.

    As for the ehtical side of things, the SOP's I've seen just address inspecting a house for someone else that you might have an interest in. I've always thought this is to stop you from talking some buyers out of buying just so you (or someone else you know) could.

    It seems like most of the rules and laws surrounding this stuff are about disclosure of some type. I've just always been up front with sellers and/or their agents about what I do for a living so nobody can say I was being deceptive.


  10. #10
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    It seems like most of the rules and laws surrounding this stuff are about disclosure of some type. I've just always been up front with sellers and/or their agents about what I do for a living so nobody can say I was being deceptive.
    Even the best of intentions can lead to the worst of outcomes. The idea that one organization or the other has a corner on the ethics market or that any one of them can even realistically pretend that legislating ethics is a possibility is absolutely absurd. The best approach is not only to avoid a conflict of interests, but to avoid even the possible appearance of a conflict of interests. Regardless what one says or what one writes, when the lawsuits begin, memories become unclear and so do contractual agreements.

    Aaron


  11. #11
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    To me, the ASHI Code of Ethics is VERY clear.
    1A) "Inspectors shall not inspect properties for compensation in which they have, or expect to have, a financial interest."

    The way I see it, you are going to have, AND do EXPECT to have a financial interest. You plan on getting paid to do construction work, AND you plan on sharing the profits from the sale.

    IF you get paid for the inspection, AND get paid for the rehab work, you will probably be ahead of the potential profit line, unless the property is purchased at a steal.

    You need to look at who is bringing what to the table.

    You have the inspection skill. Can the investor get the same job for the same amount of money from someone else? Probably. Cost involved - probably $250 - 500.

    Running the job. Assuming you have the proper licenses (could be a big problem if you don't) and skills AND experience (bigger problem if you don't). Can he get this same service somewhere else at less cost? Maybe yes, maybe no. If there are a lot of tasks that you have to hire out, then your worth (to the investor) is less. If you can't get the job done in a timely manner, your worth is less. Cost unknown.

    The bottom line to flipping is getting the job done as quickly as possible and getting the property sold. Nowhere in here have I said anything about shoddy work, or whitewashing. True, that's what a lot of flippers do, but is not always the case, and never should be. But a delay in the work can affect the bottom line, because for every day the house is not sold, the bank clock keeps ticking, and the "profit" just slips away.

    I guess if the investor is bringing ALL of the money, your share of the "profits" should probably be much lower, since you are being paid for you time and work and didn't bring anything to the table (money wise). He could find another inspector, and another GC to handle the job - he really doesn't need you.

    You come from a stronger position of getting paid for what you are doing and walk away. There may not be a profit. The other side is: if the project loses money, will you share in the loss? I can see maybe getting a bonus for bringing the project in on time and under budget. An incentive for getting it done prior to the deadline. But share of the profits? I guess a lot would depend on what you were bringing in.

    Hope it works out for you.
    JF


  12. #12
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Jack:

    I guess we are speaking from different experience pools here. I was a general contract for over 20 years building and remodeling hundreds of houses. In addition, I have been inspecting homes for 11 years now. In my travels I have seen maybe one "flipper" that attempted to do the right thing. He is no longer in that business. Guess why.

    In the comfort of the hypothetical assumption that flipping can be profitably accomplished without becoming whitewashing, one might wax confident. From the front lines I must report that your castle in the clouds was likely not one acquired through flipping.

    Aaron


  13. #13
    Lewis Capaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    "Should I get paid for inspecting the property and for my time doing the repairs, and then get a small percentage of the profits, or should I not get paid for anything and receive a little more of the profits?"

    If you are paid for the Inspection and then do the repairs and profit from the sale then you are, in my opinion, in violation of the COEs of most of the HI Associations.

    If you are inspecting the home for the purpose of investment, either as an individual or with a partner(s), then there should be no fee seeing as you are inspecting for yourself to determining if the home is suitable for "flipping" then you are doing so as an investor. Be upfront with the seller and listing agent and do the inspection your self, don't worry too much about SOP's, if you find problems that you want a deeper look at, notify the seller and realtor that you demand a more invasive and technical inspection of those conditions than a normal HI would allow.

    I was doing this before I became a Home Inspector and it has been keeping me busy for the past year, I'm waiting for 3 o4 feet of snow to melt to finish my latest project. I've also inspected Homes for Investors, but not as a Home Inspector but as a General Contractor where I've brought in Electricians, Plumbers, and other pros for estimates of repairs or renovations. Then I put everything together and submit it to the Investor/Buyer so they can determine if they want to purchase the home and have me perform and supervise the repairs. If they don't then I don't get paid for my "Inspection".

    If a buyer or investor pays me to Inspect, then I don't do the work or prepare any estimates. Flipping and Home Inspection are two different businesses, keep them separate.


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    Talking Re: flipping on the side

    Wes, So far Lewis has given you the best advice, and as a flipper myself I know from experience that this board is hostile when it comes to flippers. There is a LOT of money to be made from flipping houses and if you can get a money man that is willing to split the profits I don't think you can go wrong. As home inspectors we have a Great advantage over the average guy flipping houses. We can tell if a property is worth investing in and if it will sale once the flip is complete. There is truth in spending as little money as possible in order to make the most profit. That does NOT mean that the final flip is dangerous or something for the buyer to beware. Most builders do the same thing in new construction which is known as lesser quality, but the price reflects what you pay for. The bottom line is flip your houses with safety and the knowledge that you are a home inspector and know what is correct and what is not. Most of the posters on this board would love to make the money you can make flipping houses but believe that only top quality materials, and repairs to the highest standards are acceptable. The mere thought of putting a 20 year shingle, low end appliances or a lesser quality carpet in a flip house screams rip off to the consumer. That is NOT reality in any consumer product made in this country including houses. How many products do you pay top prices for just to have it break due to a plastic part that the manufacture put in it to save money. Lesser quality is the norm in this country rather you like it or not. Wes, I think you have a good opportunity to make a lot of money and that is what makes this the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD so go for it. I'm stepping down from my soap box now. Good Luck. Tony the diamond wearing flipper


  15. #15
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    ...a good opportunity to make a lot of money and that is what makes this the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD...
    Really? THAT'S what make this the greatest country in the world?


  16. #16
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    John, it's either that or the fact that TM can proudly boast about his home inspection/precious stones business.


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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by wes owens View Post
    Then I would do all of the repairs and renovating that I could do, and hire out the rest.
    Addressing this from a different point of view as your other issue has already been addressed.

    IF (the big "if") SC is like FL, you are only legally allowed to do those repairs if you are a licensed contractor for that trade.

    I.e., you can only do plumbing if you are a licensed plumbing contractor, you can only the the electrical if you are a licensed electrical contractor, etc.

    To find out, look up the licensing laws for contractors and see what is covered and what exceptions/exclusions there are. If like Florida, that will be homeowner acting as an owner/contractor ... BUT ... that exception does NOT apply when the house is offered for sale or lease within one year - note: not 'sold or leased' within one year, but "offered" for sale or lease within one year from the date of purchase.

    Otherwise, you are considered an unlicensed contractor.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    I think it's pretty simple...

    You can do one or the other but not both; inspection or be the general contractor.

    If you inspect the home for a fee... you are obligated to step out of the general contractor roll due to having a monetary interest (think-- the more you find, the more the contractor would get to fix. That's certainly a conflict of interest).

    If you are going to be the GC, then you should quote the job with your company's profit margin already built into the quote--without expectations of splitting the profits. Additionally, there should be some incentives of bringing the job in on-time. The sellers budget is nothing, as a general contractor, that you should be involved with. The quot you provided and eventually agreed upon with the investor has your payment built-into it.

    Rich

    Last edited by Richard Rushing; 02-29-2008 at 07:15 PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Aaron,
    I was also a General Contractor in a previous life, and was raised in a family of contractors (in Southern CA). I started working in the family business in the summer of 1964 when I got my drivers license. I've been an inspector since 1989 by the way. While my main career path took me in the direction of a "real job", I always was involved in the family business, and got my own GC license too.

    I have been involved in many renovation projects, and several "flips" if you will, and I can honestly say that we NEVER tried to cover up something, or hide a known defect - or whitewash. Not all of them made the profit we had hoped, and I remember one or two that were on the verge of getting us in the red. We not only built regular homes in the SF Valley, but built many movie stars homes in the Hollywood Hills, as well as commercial buildings.

    Not all of the flips I inspect in Knoxville are pieces of crap either. I guess you are right, we are coming from different experience pools.

    I agree that a lot of the flippers, especially ones that got into it in the last few years, are more geared to the cover it with paint and caulk and move on and hope no one finds out before the check clears - but not everyone.

    Richard is right, Wes has a ethical issue to deal with.
    JF


  20. #20
    Lewis Capaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Addressing this from a different point of view as your other issue has already been addressed.

    IF (the big "if") SC is like FL, you are only legally allowed to do those repairs if you are a licensed contractor for that trade.

    I.e., you can only do plumbing if you are a licensed plumbing contractor, you can only the the electrical if you are a licensed electrical contractor, etc..
    Jerry, Do you meen that a home owner in Florida cannot do repairs on their own property and have to hire a licensed contractor? Here an owner can do his own work, electrical, plumbing, etc. but they need a permit and the work, just like with a licensed contractor, needs to be inspected by the county/city.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    What Jerry's likely eluding to is simiar to here in Oregon. You can't do the work with the intent to sell. Yes, as a homeowner you can do the work (obtaining the permits along the way, of course). But, with the intent to sell you must be licensed in that trade. Or, at least the biggies - plumbing, electrical, hvac, etc. I'm pretty sure they'll let anyone paint and plant shrubs.... at least for now.

    Of course, the first question is "what qualifies as intent?" Only somebody in your head knows for sure. Proving what somebody knew is a difficult case to make.... of course not impossible, but more to it than a slam dunk.

    There's an easy out that I've seen 'exercised' several times.... "The seller bought the house and was going to move in but after the remodel his wife didn't like it so they're selling instead" - Yeah, right..... But, if it were true it would be totally legit. Because, at the time the work was done it was their 'intent' to own and stay in the house. It gets somewhat gray and fuzzy but that's what I've been told.


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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Fellman View Post
    What Jerry's likely eluding to is simiar to here in Oregon. You can't do the work with the intent to sell.
    Correct.

    Of course, the first question is "what qualifies as intent?" Only somebody in your head knows for sure. Proving what somebody knew is a difficult case to make.... of course not impossible, but more to it than a slam dunk.
    In Florida, it is a "slam dunk" to prove intent.

    The state statute states that 'offering it for sale or lease within one year' proves "intent": (underlining is mine)

    "In an action brought under this part, proof of the sale or lease, or offering for sale or lease, of any such structure by the owner-builder within 1 year after completion of same creates a presumption that the construction was undertaken for purposes of sale or lease."

    That's a slam dunk.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  23. #23
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Jack:

    Point taken. In my area the term flipper is synonymous with unctuous, unscrupulous sleaze. And, that's the PC version of it. The post from diamond-wearing Tony is a prime example of the sort of swindler I'm used to encountering in the flipping business.

    I usually attempt to be as objective as humanly possible when inspecting any property. When it comes to a flipped house though, I dust off every code book I own and send them a 75-100 pager. It's the least I can do for both my client and the pond scum who's attempting to rip them off.

    Aaron


  24. #24
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Aaron,

    The same goes for me when inspecting these flip homes.

    You just know the minute you walk in the place thats its a flipper. Always some kind of cheesy decorative crap sitting on the counters in the kitchen and decorator towels hanging in the bathroom.

    Nothing has been updated except for the water down paint sprayed all over the place (including inside the receptacles and service panel) and any wood rot just covered up with the paint.

    They put some cheap builders grade carpet that probably cost 1.85 a yard and think they have done some remodeling.

    Here comes some first time homebuyer that can't see past the coat of paint and think their buying a dream home. I have no problem with a legitimate remodeler or contractor but when it comes to these HGTV watchers who think they can become the next Donald Trump and try to swindle some buyer I have no mercy with them.

    I don't miss a thing when I inspect these "band-aid" homes. I've had these flippers calling me everything but a white boy when they see the report my client gives to them or a repair request.

    I agree with TM on one thing only and that is this is the greatest country in the world but it is so because it was built with pride and hard work.


  25. #25
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Rick:

    Amen.

    These disgusting SOBs are nothing but slumlords dba flippers. They add nothing of value to the neighborhoods they operate in, nothing to the lives of the unsuspecting buyers, and nothing to the nation's economy as a whole. They represent the typical "ugly American" that is detested worldwide. Boob-tube-educated imbeciles acting out their sick fantasies.

    I've been involved in a couple of lawsuits where flippers were the defendants. I enjoyed the last one some much that I waved my expert witness fee. The a-hole lost, was forced to buy back the house and pay court costs and attorney fees. He called me a few times threatening to do this and that. I recorded one of the calls and sent it to the judge and attorneys involved. Have not heard a word from his since. Imagine that . .

    As for the jewel-encrusted jerk off, you might try to keep North Texas out of your sights, because a few of us here would just love to do business with you.

    Aaron


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    Thumbs up Re: flipping on the side

    Damn, Aaron just get it off your chest man, let it out, don't hold back, looks like you bought a few flip houses and got burned. Then you became a home inspector to save the world. Good job Aaron


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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    I've seen a lot less flips lately... Without the built-in 10% appreciation just for the year while you work on the house they don't work financially as well.

    What I have seen is more than what I would call a flip... It's more of a total rehab. Lifting the house, pouring a new foundation, all new mechanical, etc.


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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Tony,

    I've got to say 'You have the courage of your convictions', ... standing up and bragging that you rip people off and that there is nothing wrong with that ...

    Too bad, though, that you don't have the 'convictions of your courage' ... which would allow you to see why 'that is not a good thing'.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  29. #29
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    EC Jerry:

    Well said.

    Aaron


  30. #30
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    Damn, Aaron just get it off your chest man, let it out, don't hold back, looks like you bought a few flip houses and got burned. Then you became a home inspector to save the world. Good job Aaron
    Bold is mine

    Tony,

    Where do you get out of any of Aaron Miller posts that he has bought a few flip houses and got burned?

    You read into what you want to believe to make yourself feel justified for your own gratification. Little man Syndrome I call it.

    If anything, your career and beliefs as a Home Inspector ought to serve as a warning to others considering joining into this business.

    rick

    Last edited by Rick Hurst; 02-25-2008 at 04:46 PM.

  31. #31
    Lewis Capaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Fellman View Post
    I've seen a lot less flips lately... Without the built-in 10% appreciation just for the year while you work on the house they don't work financially as well.

    What I have seen is more than what I would call a flip... It's more of a total rehab. Lifting the house, pouring a new foundation, all new mechanical, etc.
    That's just what I've had to do on many of the homes I've done over the past 35 years, I've never considered it to be flipping, although the goal is the same, profit. The only time I might have came close to "flipping" was when I was in Vegas for a couple of years and bought and sold several foreclosures that didn't take that much work, regrount/repair tile, a new counter top or so, some new doors, sheetrock repair, clean up, and yes paint, not a great profit, but I figured it out one time to be worth around $35/hr if I had been working for someone else.

    The property I'm finishing up now, if the damned snow will melt, we completely gutted, new foundation, new everything, including a new well when the snow goes away. I bought the property as acreage, the seller considered the 100 year old rancher to be a tear down, but the structure was solid and will now have a "Historical" value built in IF I sell it,
    I'm trying to wiggle things around so that I can afford to keep it.

    Don't forget that there are sellers out there that are as bad as some of the worst "flippers", many sellers, some on the advice of their Realtor, use the same methods, new paint and shiny things to dazzle the buyer.


  32. #32
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Yes Im flipping on the side myself, its from having nightmares about the condition of the Real Estate Fandango. My wife has tried tieing me to the bed but Im keep flipping on the side. ( .)


  33. #33
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Flippers:

    I just have to say that my hat's off to you inspectors who find both the time and the energy to run a full-time professional inspection business and a professional full-time remodeling contractor firm simultaneously.

    But, let's take a closer look. I have done both - one at a time. As a contractor and builder I put in a minimum of 80 hours per week. So, I promised myself that my next business would consume less of my time. Eleven years ago I became an inspector and now work only 60 hours per week.

    Now you do the math. Even assuming that I had the desire to do such an insane thing, I would not have the energy to work 20-hour days, seven days a week. Neither, I might add, do you. So, that leads me to the conclusion that you flippers are both part-time inspectors and part-time contractors. Do you follow? Can you see where this is going?

    Part-time anything is professional nothing. Jacks-of-all-trades. Tyros. Dilettantes. Amateurs. Get it?

    Of course, if one or the other of these jobs is just a hobby, well then, I guess you could be forgiven. But you should be riding that hobby horse on a pre-school equestrian forum and not here with the big boys.

    Aaron


  34. #34
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Oh blow your horn Aaron

    I'm a full timer in the Inspection business and still think about Buying and selling homes.

    There are cookie cutter inspectors that cut rate the business and have to do 15 or more a week to live off the low fee. Then theres the "Inspector" which gets paid accordingly and can do 5 or so a week and have time to flip.

    Ahhhhh bullshit. It would be hard to do both and not put do diligent to one of them.

    Just because a Inspector may not do many inspections doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is doing.

    Mike Schulz License 393
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  35. #35
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    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: flipping on the side

    I'm a full timer in the Inspection business and still think about Buying and selling homes.
    There's not a thing wrong with just thinking about it . . .
    There are cookie cutter inspectors that cut rate the business and have to do 15 or more a week to live off the low fee. Then theres the "Inspector" which gets paid accordingly and can do 5 or so a week and have time to flip.
    I couldn't afford my wife on 5 of even East Coast Jerry's inspections per week.

    Aaron


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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Tony,

    Don't insult him.

    His name is Brian. B-R-I-A-N NOT Bryan.

    By the way, your not the moderator of the board and can't tell someone to delete their post by telling them "Last Chance"

    Living near those power lines must be getting to you.

    rick


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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Tony,...your not the moderator of the board and can't tell someone to delete their post
    Rick please. Tony didn't tell anyone to delete a post. He told Aaron to "Deleat". There's a big difference.

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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    At the front gate:

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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Rick - I wish I had a picture, but my favorite sign was at a restaurant/bar I used to frequent in Floyd, Virginia that said "Closed for remolding". That pretty much said it all.


  40. #40
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    I don't see a problem with a HI inspecting a house he is a party to buying to fix up and sell. If you are doing for yourself how can it be a conflict or violation of anybodies COE?


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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    I don't see a problem with a HI inspecting a house he is a party to buying to fix up and sell. If you are doing for yourself how can it be a conflict or violation of anybodies COE?
    James,

    He is wanting to CHARGE for the HI.

    No investor worth working with would agree to 'pay for services provided' and then 'split the profits', if you are in it together, you make or break together, to try to charge for your services and then split the profit, that's just plain dumb for an investor to do (and would make me very suspicious of the investor's intent, i.e., will I actually get my share later - and the answer may well be 'Why should you, you already got paid').

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  42. #42
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    "My question is how should I handle my side.

    Should I get paid for inspecting the property and for my time doing the repairs, and then get a small percentage of the profits, or should I not get paid for anything and receive a little more of the profits?"


    The first posters question is posted above in bold. I answered his question.


  43. #43
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Hey Tony M. I think this nice feller is trying to tell you something about a fig newton (if I read his lips correctly)...
    Looks like he's saying it's at the top of the tree...

    RR

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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    "My question is how should I handle my side.

    Should I get paid for inspecting the property and for my time doing the repairs, and then get a small percentage of the profits, or should I not get paid for anything and receive a little more of the profits?"

    The first posters question is posted above in bold. I answered his question.
    James,

    THIS was what you said, it did not answer that question:
    Quote Originally Posted by James Duffin View Post
    I don't see a problem with a HI inspecting a house he is a party to buying to fix up and sell. If you are doing for yourself how can it be a conflict or violation of anybodies COE?
    His question was an "or" question, should I do this (A) *OR* this (B). BOTH contained him doing the inspection, the difference was in how he should treat it.

    He should treat it as after the *OR* in his question - which makes it not really a "home inspection" done and paid separately, but 'part of the assessment and work' which he is contributing to the joint venture and from which he will receive a share of the profits, if there are any.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  45. #45
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Richard:

    Nice little flip-off graphic. I'd have sent Tony Diamond something similar but I'm still cowering in the corner from abject fear that he'll drop a dime to the great Hann in the sky and have me banished from the kingdom for honesty above reproach . . .

    Klein mit Hut,

    Aaron


  46. #46
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Someone just sent me this. The inspector mentioned could very easily be Diamond Tony or one of his ilk. Note that he has upped the ante from just flipping houses to flipping his inspection reports . . .

    http://houston.craigslist.org/rfs/571442904.html

    Go on and drop that dime now, Tony boy.


    Aaron


  47. #47
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    OK,
    I'm going to chime in here and say thanks to those who answered my question.

    I only need 5 inspections a week to pay my bills, and don't want more than 10 because I take my time to make sure I'm as thorough as possible, and more than 10 would take me too long. But thats me.

    That would leave me weekends to work on a house to flip, or buy and rehab if thats better.
    I have not, do not, and would not do anything unethical or cut corners to make a quick buck. I can only speak for myself, but if someone has the spare time and does an honest job, there's nothing wrong with a side job.

    It would not make me a "disgusting SOB or slumlord."
    Nor a "Boob-tube-educated imbeciles acting out their sick fantasies."
    I would hope that was not referring to me because you don't know me, so don't judge me.

    If you were referring to most people you have come in contact with that does that for a living, and your experience was less than desirable, fine.

    The whole point for me starting this thread, since I have never bought and
    sold for profit, was to see what would be the best way to go about it.

    I figured some of you guys would know and could give me some good tips.
    If doing this on the side proved to much or not profitable through honest work then I wouldn't do it.

    Again, thanks to those who tried to help.


  48. #48
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Your welcome Wes, and good luck.


  49. #49
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Wes:

    Unless otherwise obviously pointed at some particular person, all comments coming from me fit neatly into the "if the shoe fits, wear it" category.

    Take offense at your own peril.

    Aaron


  50. #50
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Well,

    Since it doesn't "fit" me, I will presume you were talking about other people that may have well deserved your insults.

    I would like to think that a person can ask an honest question without insults and unjustified criticism.


  51. #51
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Wes,
    I would like to think that a person can ask an honest question without insults and unjustified criticism.
    Take heart, Aaron was not intending any criticism at you personally, unless the shoe fits (his words.) He is an equal opportunity offender.

    He actually has some good thoughts though if you have thick enough skin to stay around long enough to hear.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  52. #52
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    He is an equal opportunity offender.


    Yes, and that phrase, at least to me, means plain spoken, straight shooter.

    The whole idea of freedom of speech is not to have freedom of just some speech. Then it comes down to some individual deciding which speech is to be free and some group of people deciding who that individual will be.

    In this particular instance someone, and not Wes, seems to claim the right to speak openly confirming his lack of ethics while at the same time disclaiming my right to speak out against his modus operandi. What is equitable about that? Where's the bilateral freedom?

    I attempt to preface all statements that border on ad hominem attacks by saying that I am making the statement based upon my own personal and unique experience pool. This is the reality I perceive through my filters. It does not have to correspond or even remotely resemble another's before I have the inalienable right to speak it.

    So says the Constitution that the current administration has attempted to completely shred.

    Aaron


  53. #53
    Steve Lowery's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    I had a psyche Prof. who put it succinctly. "You can't insult me. I'm too ignorant."


  54. #54
    Lewis Capaul's Avatar
    Lewis Capaul Guest

    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post


    Yes, and that phrase, at least to me, means plain spoken, straight shooter.

    The whole idea of freedom of speech is not to have freedom of just some speech. Then it comes down to some individual deciding which speech is to be free and some group of people deciding who that individual will be.

    In this particular instance someone, and not Wes, seems to claim the right to speak openly confirming his lack of ethics while at the same time disclaiming my right to speak out against his modus operandi. What is equitable about that? Where's the bilateral freedom?

    I attempt to preface all statements that border on ad hominem attacks by saying that I am making the statement based upon my own personal and unique experience pool. This is the reality I perceive through my filters. It does not have to correspond or even remotely resemble another's before I have the inalienable right to speak it.

    So says the Constitution that the current administration has attempted to completely shred.

    Aaron

    Aaron, I thought all you "Big Boys" lived over there in that InterGalatic HI Association. Most individuals I've met who considered themselves to be a "Big Boy" usually suffer from a "Big Head" and an inflated ego.

    Maybe you could give us your definition of what constitutes a Professional and your reasons for believing that someone can't do more than one thing at a time and still be a professional

    Have a nice day "Big Boy"


  55. #55
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis Capaul View Post
    Aaron, I thought all you "Big Boys" lived over there in that InterGalatic HI Association. Most individuals I've met who considered themselves to be a "Big Boy" usually suffer from a "Big Head" and an inflated ego.

    Maybe you could give us your definition of what constitutes a Professional and your reasons for believing that someone can't do more than one thing at a time and still be a professional

    Have a nice day "Big Boy"
    Lewis,

    By your lack of posts actually contributing anything to this site, and your post above ...

    ... dear chap, it seems as though YOU are the one with the "Big Boy" "Big Head".

    Tony, Lewis there is trying to defame Aaron, you going to click on his post and report him? If not, why not?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  56. #56
    Lewis Capaul's Avatar
    Lewis Capaul Guest

    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Lewis,

    By your lack of posts actually contributing anything to this site, and your post above ...

    ... dear chap, it seems as though YOU are the one with the "Big Boy" "Big Head".

    Tony, Lewis there is trying to defame Aaron, you going to click on his post and report him? If not, why not?
    Jerry, my reply to Aaron was in response to his atempts to defame anyone operating a business in any way he didn't approve of by inferring that they were unprofessional, I suppose because he didn't approve, he's the one who brought up the subject of "being here with the "BIG BOYS", I only stated my many years experience with assholes who claim to be one of the "Big Boys", "Big guys", or any other statement of superiority, most I have met have a very inflated veiw of both their importance and their abilities.

    I also asked Aaron for a definition of what he considers a "Professional", he seems to believe that someone who has more than one Profession, can't be professional. I see no reason that just because someone does more than one job or works only part time, that it makes him unprofessional. Maybe you do.

    Go back to the beginning of the thread, my first post was advice to keep Home Inspection and "Flipping" or any other business separate. Others jumped into criticize those who may do, or want to do renovations, or flipping as a separate business. Put all those names on your list right along with yours and mine, I see several threads over the past few days especially in your responses to Harvey, where you as one of the "Big Boys" here, haven't been too helful at all.


  57. #57
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis Capaul View Post
    Jerry, my reply to Aaron was in response to his atempts to defame anyone operating a business in any way he didn't approve of by inferring that they were unprofessional,
    That is understood, and, in your reply, you tried to defame Aaron.

    Now then, that makes TWO of you.

    And, in my response to you, that makes THREE of us.

    Just don't try to say that it is okay for you to do it but it is not okay for Aaron to do it.

    Go back to the beginning of the thread, my first post was advice to keep Home Inspection and "Flipping" or any other business separate.

    I see several threads over the past few days especially in your responses to Harvey, where you as one of the "Big Boys" here, haven't been too helful at all.
    Yep, I make sure to mark up that one made one, possibly two potentially helpful threads, to my ... how many?

    You do not want to start calling the kettle black with me because I will point out the the pot is just as black, or blacker ... and that you are that pot.

    Want to keep it going? I'd let it go, just like Brian said we should, it's up to you.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  58. #58
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Whew! What a trip, I'm back.

    I bowed out gracefully from this forum, gosh it seems like such a long time ago. What on earth happened? Let's see . . . oh yeah, I'm remembering bits and pieces, the last thing I recall was, uh . . . yes, that I was caught up in a tornado in Mustang (Yee-hah!) Oklahoma, known sphincter of the Universe.

    That's it! The tornado motion accelerated the Borealis effect so that my 30-day moratorium is now over! Don't scoff. More miraculous things are happening all the time. Did you know that the only thing that keeps the Great State of Texas from sliding down and becoming one with Raul Castro's Cuba is the startling fact that Oklahoma s-u-c-k-s?

    Kansas probably sucks worse though, and we can be thankful for it, else the god-forsaken Sooner state would move southward and we'd be overwhelmed by fu*&ing Okies on stick horses with important-sounding names like Anthony here in the Lone Star State.

    I seem to remember Dorothy someone from there having experienced a similar time-distorting event due to the faster acceleration they must have in Kansas.

    So, I guess I'm off to other parts of this forum spreading joy, as usual.

    Nice to be back,

    Aaron


  59. #59
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Aaron - Welcome back! It seems like only yesterday that you left us!


  60. #60
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
    Aaron - Welcome back! It seems like only yesterday that you left us!
    Hot dang! They do exist!

    Aaron found a worm hole in the space time continuum and was able to slide through time.

    And many others have said it is called a 'theory' because there is no proof! WE HAVE PROOF!

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  61. #61
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Aaron,

    Good to have you back on aboard after such a adventurous journey.

    Thanks for the gift you picked up for us all. I knew they had to be selling it up there as you can see on the labeling.

    rick

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  62. #62
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Hot dang! They do exist!

    Aaron found a worm hole in the space time continuum and was able to slide through time.

    And many others have said it is called a 'theory' because there is no proof! WE HAVE PROOF!
    Jerry,

    It was actually larger than the worm hole we expected.

    Seems Aaron walked into a Wal-mart building that had been vacated (actually they moved across the street) and found a time travel portal. Lets just all be thankful he made it back safely.

    rick


  63. #63
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    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Here's the proof.

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  64. #64
    Lewis Capaul's Avatar
    Lewis Capaul Guest

    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    That is understood, and, in your reply, you tried to defame Aaron.

    Now then, that makes TWO of you.

    And, in my response to you, that makes THREE of us.

    Just don't try to say that it is okay for you to do it but it is not okay for Aaron to do it.



    Yep, I make sure to mark up that one made one, possibly two potentially helpful threads, to my ... how many?

    You do not want to start calling the kettle black with me because I will point out the the pot is just as black, or blacker ... and that you are that pot.

    Want to keep it going? I'd let it go, just like Brian said we should, it's up to you.

    Jerry, We have another difference of opinion here, I'd say that you were the Pot, one of the "Big boys" Aaron mentioned, similar at times to those chosen few over there in Nachi Land who feel they have special privileges for what ever reasons, maybe their relationships with then owners or the message boards.

    Asron doesn't bother me, he wants to flame people he doesn't agree with, I'm more than able to flame right back, even if you want to jump in because you tend to agree with his idea of what is Professional.

    You post here much more often than I do and for the most part you are very helpful to everyone, and you have even helped me on several occasions, but it seems to be you calling the kettle black, because no matter how many helpful posts you have made, you have also made many more worthless, argumentative, and defaming type posts than I have.

    Take any of your many discussions with Harvey, Burkeson than others, tell me that they follow Brian's rules and more than some of mine. The point in this thread is that I'm not the one who attacked and attempted to defame people first, I was being helpful, whether or not you or Aaron agree with what I do or suggest. You, Aaron, or anyone in my opinion can post any thing you like, but when you attack someone you should expect a response whether or not it violates Brian's rules, both the original attack, the counter, and the defense by others all seem to me to be violations, as are the many arguments here in which you take part.

    Harvey has suggested that you have some kind of special privileges here, I usually disagree with everything Harvey says, but in this case it seems there must be some truth in his suggestion, or at least it appears that you believe you do.

    Don't preach to others about argumentative posts until you clean up your own act It appears to be you who is saying that it is okay for you to do something, but not for others to do the same. You seem to feel that you have the right to defend yourself against attacks from people like Harvey,
    Burkeson and others on this message board, just look at the many posts you have made doing so, maybe that's one of the special privleges permitted to the "Big Boys".


  65. #65
    Aaron Miller's Avatar
    Aaron Miller Guest

    Default Re: flipping on the side

    Rick:

    GREAT PICTURES . . . I found picture 1 after entering picture 2.

    Helluva trip,

    Aaron


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