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  1. #1
    John McKenna's Avatar
    John McKenna Guest

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Consumers Guide To Thermal Imaging

    Oh great! More meaningless certification fodder brought to you by the certification king!

    Curious John, just how long have you been doing IR surveys and what training do you need to have to open a school and certify folks like you are doing?

    From what I have read it looks like you should have a Level III Certification before you start training or supervising others in IR surveys.
    Level lll Infrared Thermography Certification

    This is the most advanced infrared training level available. A Level III thermographer is primarily a thermography program manager who writes the company's written predictive maintenance/inspection practices, develops the test procedures and severity criteria, determines how often equipment should be inspected, and calculates the return on investment the thermography program is providing.
    By completing this advanced infrared training, a Level III thermographer will supervise Level I and Level II infrared thermographers, as well as provide infrared thermography training. The Level III thermographer is a resource to be consulted with, when repeat problems on equipment necessitates a review of operating and maintenance procedures, or involves a redesign of equipment. Infrared Thermography Certification Levels
    I don't see this in your credentials...

    Last edited by Scott Patterson; 05-02-2008 at 06:52 AM.
    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  3. #3
    John McKenna's Avatar
    John McKenna Guest

    Default Re: Consumers Guide To Thermal Imaging

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Oh great! More meaningless certification fodder brought to you by the certification king!

    Curious John, just how long have you been doing IR surveys and what training do you need to have to open a school and certify folks like you are doing?

    From what I have read it looks like you should have a Level III Certification before you start training or supervising others in IR surveys.


    I don't see this in your credentials...
    Scott,

    FLIR-ITC (considered one of the finest providers of thermography training in the
    world) have teachers that are not Level III.... and FLIR-ITC is where I was trained.

    Here is a partial list to help you get started...
    FLIR Infrared Training Center - ITC - CVS ITC - Instructor Bios

    The vast majority of Level III and Level II and Level I themographers in the
    U.S. cannot do a infrared home inspection, because they have no background in
    that industry. Just throwing out those titles does not make one qualified to
    teach home inspectors.

    You have no training in infrared technology, and therefore I understand your
    views and misconceptions. You have never taken our courses and test.
    You do not know the content of what you attack.

    I can point you to another thermal imaging school that is very well known
    and respected in the industry, that is now offering the same type and length
    of class, for the same "Infrared Certified" designation. They started their
    classes after they saw what we were doing. If you attack them, you would
    be attacking an 25 year old thermography institution.

    Based on the content of the video, did you find any errors in the content itself.?

    I suggest you point to specific content errors and tell us the source of your
    opinions. Anyone can blow smoke.

    I was building houses for many years before you even knew what a home
    inspector was. I did not just read a book and take a test. Please do not
    lecture me on experience.

    If you find any errors, I am open to correction. If you want to make broad
    based and mocking comments based on an insecurity, try to relax. The
    video has very valuable information for the consumer that can help a lot
    of people.

    I have had several students who have taken courses at FLIR-ITC and
    then took our IR class. They stated that our class was one of the finest
    and most intense course they have ever seen.

    BTW... ASHI has started calling their members "certified" so don't become
    the kettle calling the pot black... when your own association is using that same
    term. Relax.

    Have a nice day.

    Last edited by John McKenna; 05-02-2008 at 09:24 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Consumers Guide To Thermal Imaging

    I would have to say if the person is ITC trained and has spent the time and money on a camera, their marketing should explain to the consumer what IR offers. Just a thought.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Consumers Guide To Thermal Imaging

    So John, what are you a Level I, II or III Thermographer?


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Consumers Guide To Thermal Imaging

    John, you and I have always disagreed on most topics.

    As for ASHI and their membership classification of Certified ASHI Inspector, it is a membership classification. It is not a true certification.

    In the home inspector profession we have not real honest to goodness "True" third party certifications. They are all self serving certifications of the various membership organizations.

    Now if we had a certification that could meet NOCCA standards, then we would have a true home inspector certification. The problem with this is that few would want to attain it due to the requirements and the additional cost associated with a higher level third party certification.

    The word Certification has been so watered down that its meaning has been lost in our profession.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  7. #7
    John McKenna's Avatar
    John McKenna Guest

    Default Re: Consumers Guide To Thermal Imaging

    Scott,

    Thank you for your honest answer about your feelings.

    Cary,

    I sat next to some Level III thermographers when I attended FLIR-ITC
    and they needed my help during the class that dealt with doing an infrared
    scan of a building. This may be outside the box of what you understand,
    but none of those titles mean anything if you still don't know what your
    doing. When you can explain that to me, then I will know your getting
    close. Those certifications were created over 10 years ago and were
    not for home inspectors. Think about it.

    That does mean that particular Level III guy next to me did not know how to
    use the IR camera, he just could not use it in the HI field of use.

    Did anyone find a point in the video that was incorrect.? Can anyone
    agree it was good information. Relax.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Consumers Guide To Thermal Imaging

    Hi john i did injoy the video. you and Nick are doing some good work
    on inter/NACHI. I get alot form that web site.

    Thank you and keep up the good work.

    But one point i may make that if we are as H.I Going to take photos of toilet can we put the lid down!!! unless there is a crack in the thing.

    Just one of my pet peeves. No photos of open Toilets please.

    Best

    Ron


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Consumers Guide To Thermal Imaging

    John,

    It's not outside of my box of understanding. It totally makes sense that the Level III guys would be asking construction/building questions to a home inspector or builder. I used to be a builder as well. Now I am a home inspector who recently purchased a thermal imaging camera. As I need more help learning about IR fundamentals than I do about building or construction techniques, I am looking to learn from people that have that type of training and thus would be able to better educate me on IR.

    So just to clarify, you are not a Level I Thermographer...Right? Just a yes or no will do.

    Last edited by Cary Seidner; 05-02-2008 at 07:14 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Consumers Guide To Thermal Imaging

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    The word Certification has been so watered down that its meaning has been lost in our profession.

    This is so true.... I don't really follow all the association bashing and really have no idea or care who's on what side of what fight. But, something I can vouch for is the lack of care or concern on the part of the consumer as to a few letters behind a guy's name.

    In 8+ years of performing home inspections and running a mid/large company I've never been asked one time about any certification.

    If people bought a HI every week they'd learn to care. For the once every 5 years that most consumers use our services it's meaningless.

    As mentioned by Scott, the fighting amongst us has ruined any possibility of a benefit any designation may have provided.

    In the end I'm not saying the certifications are useless since there's often some good education that goes along with them (or should be anyway). I just don't think it will make your phone ring or keep you from getting sued.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Consumers Guide To Thermal Imaging

    This topic looks like another attempt by another vender to get all the free advertizing he can from Brian and another free plug for the owner
    his org that will certifiy anybody for $s


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